Why Martin???

[larry50]

Why Martin? This is why, at least for me.

[kwakatak]

Nice gits, larry. I'm guessing each cost a little more than $800 though! :poke:

[Opa John]

They may not be collectible, but odds are they're not going to have depreciated as much as another brand - except for maybe a Gibson - so that one can get a higher percentage of his money back should one sell their Martin.

 

 

Let's do the math. Say, for example, he gets back, optimistically, 70% on a $3000 guitar. He's lost 30% of his money.....$900. (in the real world, he'd probably lose more than that.)

 

Now. let's say I get back, pessimistically, 30% on a $500 guitar. I've lost 70% of my money........$350. (in a real world, I'd probably lose LESS than that.)

 

Now, you tell me.........who lost the most money?

 

Frank, you sure know how to get things rolling around here.

[sdelsolray]

Also, in a similar note, why does Martin charge $2500 when another company can build a pretty much identical guitar for $500.

 

 

 

The more expensive Martin is for the folks that play well enough to experience a wonderful difference.

 

Some folks don't experience a difference.

[rickoshea]

there are a few factors involved. Historically - CFM invented the dread shape and have been changing and making improvements for 175 years. Many great ( and famous ) musicians have and do use Martin guitars ( this alone will mean they can command a premium price )
The guitars do have a unique tone and are a joy to hold and play, plus they are beautifully built ( even if the neck set on my D-35 isnt utterly perfect )
Then of course there's the Martin name and the warranty ( not many will reset a neck after 20 odd years for the original owner under warranty ) - thats worth "a few" extra $.

Personally I love my Martin - both from the tonal/playability point of view and from the history I hold. I reckon CFM will always have this cachet however many Eastern makers can show as good build quality ( Crafter ) for a lot less money. Are Martins overpriced? .... imo yes, is it worth paying the price premium? .... if you're interested in the actual instrument as well as the music - definitely yes

[larry50]

Nice gits, larry. I'm guessing each cost a little more than $800 though! :poke:

Yeah, ast least with respect to my D-35, probably worth about $1,500 now,. But Elderly just sold an OM-16GT just like mine for $650. , cost $999 new about four years ago, comparable model now is the 000-16GT, now just over $1K (although I've seen lower). Martin discontinued the OM version.

[Guitarplay]

you can all hate Martin, but just realize that Martin is the one guitar manufacturer that makes consistently great instruments through all price levels. People hate on the hpl 500 dollar martins, but those things still sound damn good. You rarely see fancy inlay work or bling all over martin guitars...a martin acoustic is a no frills American made workhorse.

 

The last thing I have to say is that I have never picked up a Martin and not enjoyed its easy playability, sound construction, and/or tone, something I cannot say for Taylor, Gibson, Takamine, Yamaha, and all the other brands I have played.

 

And this is all coming from a guy who doesn't even own a Martin. I love my takamine, but respect is due where respect is due.

[jamesp]

I was wondering whether wages have kept pace with Guitars.

After a bit of Googling I found that in '72 I had to work 220 hours in the cornfields to buy my 000, whereas today, doing the same job, I'd have to work 228 hrs. to buy the same guitar. Just an FYI.

[tbry]

Just got back from Guitar center tonight near Berkley, Ca...nobody but me in the room so I played everything I could get my hands on...I already own a Taylor 214 and had never played a Martin...of course my ears are diff than the next guys so I will tell you what I heard the best I can...I had a pen and piece of paper and played the same chords for every guitar and took notes...

Of the Martins I played...

Martin 000-28EC...this was the best sounding guitar out of all 20 diff guitars I played...$3100.00

Martin Travel guitar sucked.

D16gt...Excellant...ebony fret board easy to play sounded like a Taylor to me.$1000.00

D35wc...Just ok...not that special...$2300.00

JC16REAURA...wc Jumbo...very nice sound easy to play...$2077.00

16GTE Premium...Right up there. Very nice and easy to play...$1450.00

HD 28 V...Good guitar but not all that...I thought the low end Taylors sounded better.

OK...Taylors

Taylor had the most guitars that sounded and played the best...really liked the DN3 and all of the Taylors were excellent. Overall winner for me. Entry level or not the Taylors were hands down easy to play and sounded the best to me. The 214ce was evry bit as good as the DN3...diff body styles and from there you go up in price but are paying for bling...

Taylor 110...for an entry model this thing sounds pretty good...$600.00

Taylor 214ce...I think it could be me but I like the sound of a Grand A...$1000.00

Taylor GC8...Nice guitar. Not as much volume as 214 but better than 110...$2100.00

Taylor DN3...this guitar rocked...great sounding easy to play. The notes rang out clear and beautiful...that is a nice dread...$1000.00

I won't go on with the Taylors...they were as a whole bteer than the Martins to me.

Gibson...I tried three models...2 Hummingbirds(I own a knock off) and the Songwriter Delux...that is a nice guitar...can't go wrong there...felt strong like a tank...don't think you could wear it out. Beautiful sound....$2000.00

Breedlove C25...Beautiful sound and easy to play...most like a Taylor...$1700.00

Yamaha FG 700s...nice guitar for the money...it didn't sound as good as the others but it cost way less...I wouldn't be embarrassed at all...249.00...

Seagull Entorage...very nice cedar top. I like the sound of cedar....not as good as the Martins or Taylors but I would not be ashamed of ownig it at all...$400.00

So...I will get going but I thought I would share what was fresh in my mind and ear...

For me the Taylor is overall a better and more consistant sounding guitar...The Martin 000-28EC was damn nice but at 3100.00 it just wasn't that much better...I could buy two Taylors and be fricking happy as a clam...

The DN3...$1000.00...plus

The 214...(or other Taylor GA)....$1000.00= $2000.00...I save $1100.00 and have 2 really great sounding guitars...

[AndrewGG]

I just wonder if C.F.Martin started their company today would they be able to charge as much for their guitars as they do or would they be more in line with Blueridge and Recording King for what they offer.

 

 

A couple of things to consider; cost comparisons are not really valid considering production costs and wage differences between an American and Chinese company.

If, on the other hand, Martin had their manufacturing base overseas there's no question they would have problems competing on price.

Take a really close look at, say, a D-18 and the Blueridge equivalent. The detail differences are very noticeable in terms of general finish and sound-and the devil, as they say, is in the detail!

[wooglins]

Just got back from Guitar center tonight near Berkley, Ca...nobody but me in the room so I played everything I could get my hands on...I already own a Taylor 214 and had never played a Martin...of course my ears are diff than the next guys so I will tell you what I heard the best I can...I had a pen and piece of paper and played the same chords for every guitar and took notes... Of the Martins I played... Martin 000-28EC...this was the best sounding guitar out of all 20 diff guitars I played...$3100.00 Martin Travel guitar sucked. D16gt...Excellant...ebony fret board easy to play sounded like a Taylor to me.$1000.00 D35wc...Just ok...not that special...$2300.00 JC16REAURA...wc Jumbo...very nice sound easy to play...$2077.00 16GTE Premium...Right up there. Very nice and easy to play...$1450.00 HD 28 V...Good guitar but not all that...I thought the low end Taylors sounded better. OK...Taylors Taylor had the most guitars that sounded and played the best...really liked the DN3 and all of the Taylors were excellent. Overall winner for me. Entry level or not the Taylors were hands down easy to play and sounded the best to me. The 214ce was evry bit as good as the DN3...diff body styles and from there you go up in price but are paying for bling... Taylor 110...for an entry model this thing sounds pretty good...$600.00 Taylor 214ce...I think it could be me but I like the sound of a Grand A...$1000.00 Taylor GC8...Nice guitar. Not as much volume as 214 but better than 110...$2100.00 Taylor DN3...this guitar rocked...great sounding easy to play. The notes rang out clear and beautiful...that is a nice dread...$1000.00 I won't go on with the Taylors...they were as a whole bteer than the Martins to me. Gibson...I tried three models...2 Hummingbirds(I own a knock off) and the Songwriter Delux...that is a nice guitar...can't go wrong there...felt strong like a tank...don't think you could wear it out. Beautiful sound....$2000.00 Breedlove C25...Beautiful sound and easy to play...most like a Taylor...$1700.00 Yamaha FG 700s...nice guitar for the money...it didn't sound as good as the others but it cost way less...I wouldn't be embarrassed at all...249.00... Seagull Entorage...very nice cedar top. I like the sound of cedar....not as good as the Martins or Taylors but I would not be ashamed of ownig it at all...$400.00 So...I will get going but I thought I would share what was fresh in my mind and ear... For me the Taylor is overall a better and more consistant sounding guitar...The Martin 000-28EC was damn nice but at 3100.00 it just wasn't that much better...I could buy two Taylors and be fricking happy as a clam... The DN3...$1000.00...plus The 214...(or other Taylor GA)....$1000.00= $2000.00...I save $1100.00 and have 2 really great sounding guitars...

 

 

 

The big problem with doing comparisons at GC is they dont change the strings, or if they do only when they happen to have a tech come in to do it. Taylors come strung with Elixr strings which last a long time and sound decent thru a long range of time. Martin on the other hand comes strung with plain jane PB strings, usually Martin SP4200's. Those strings last at most a week. Many of the Martins you were playing especially the expensive one probably had dead strings. The more expensive the guitar the more likely they have had it at GC for a long time.

[AndrewGG]

The big problem with doing comparisons at GC is they dont change the strings, or if they do only when they happen to have a tech come in to do it. Taylors come strung with Elixr strings which last a long time at sound decent thru a long range of time. Martin on the other hand come strung with plain jane PB strings, usually Martin SP4200's. Those strings last at most a week. Many of the Martins you were playing especially the expensive one probably had dead strings. The more expensive the guitar the more likely they have had it at GC for a long time.

 

 

 

I have to agree here; Martin would be doing themselves a great favour by shipping guitars with coated strings. A more experienced player will be able to hear 'through' an old, crusty set but a less knowledgeable newcomer might well pass on the Martin in favour of the sparkling, new-string tones of the Taylor.

[Florida_Gator]

The big problem with doing comparisons at GC is they dont change the strings, or if they do only when they happen to have a tech come in to do it. Taylors come strung with Elixr strings which last a long time at sound decent thru a long range of time. Martin on the other hand come strung with plain jane PB strings, usually Martin SP4200's. Those strings last at most a week. Many of the Martins you were playing especially the expensive one probably had dead strings. The more expensive the guitar the more likely they have had it at GC for a long time.

 

 

Very true -- even for the lower-end guitars at Guitar Center.

 

However, if you're there to buy, and have narrowed it down to a few, they'll put new strings on them for you so you can do a "fair" comparison (I did just that a week-and-a-half ago when I bought my Yamaha FG735S and was comparing it to a couple others).

[rhancox]

There are other items that we buy that we will pay a little more for and not complain. It's our nature to want to get the best we can for our money, for the most part. On the other hand, in Martin's case, the disparity may be a little more pronounced. But then, look at the company.

As others have stated, Martin has been around much longer than any other builder we typically have access to. They've also been a pioneer and innovator in the industry for just as long.

It's not entirely about what goes into the guitar that makes the Martin THE guitar to own. It's the intangibles, e.g. warranty, history & reputation. Add to that their construction materials and methods and you've got yourself one expensive guitar. But for good reason.

I'm sure most would agree that there are diminishing returns as you increase the quality of the materials and workmanship from, say, a Yamaha to a Martin. For example, start with a solid spruce top and laminate sides (pick your wood), like a Yamaha. Sounds pretty darn good. Now replace those laminate sides (and the back of course) with solid wood. Even better. Now go to a different wood, getting better, but not as substantial a change as going from laminate back and sides to solid wood. Now use some exotic bracing pattern inside and it's still getting better, but again, the increase in tonal quality is probably not proportionate to the investment (and the difference in the final price).

The difference, however, with a company like Martin is the intangibles. They can use all the finest woods and innovative bracing patterns and get one of the best sounding guitars on the market, and you will pay for that, but you're also paying for what it took them to get to that point. And that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

So, we can debate whether a $3000 Martin is 10 times better, in tonal quality, than a $300 Yamaha, which it probably isn't, in and of itself, but the difference is the company that made the $3000 guitar. That's what puts it over the top.

[Queequeg]

Buy Chinese. It's the only reasonable thing to do. .

 

Get a piece of The Wall

[roughtrade]

I have been playing about six years, I have only played maybe 80 Martins. I figure I have played 20 or so Gibsons, about the same number of Taylors, one Santa Cruz, a Bourgouisie, and a Gallagher. Lots of Takemines, Ovations, lower end Yamahas, and several others, Epiphone, Seagull, etc. None of the lower end guitars ever compared to the higher end ones across all brands. Didn't matter if I was looking at Ovation, Takemine, Martin, or Epiphone/Gibson.

That said, I have only ever played one Martin that I didn't like. The Smartwood. I was really sorry about that as I have a Gibson studio Les Paul Smartwood and that would have been a nice set. Oh well.

Conversely, and I have to credit one of the posters here for what I think is the reason, I have only played three Gibsons that I liked. I like the Songwriter Deluxe, everyone I played, and I like a 25 year old SJ50, I think it was. The old guitar was open and very sweet, but I think the newer ones are just to compressed sounding for me. I loved the Gallagher, best guitar I ever played. But I bought a Martin D28 for the tone, the quality of workmanship, and the playability.

[Brokepick]

 

I don't want to turn this into a "for" or "against" Martin thread, I just can't understand why they're THE guitar when there's so many other great guitars and guitar manufactures out there.

 

 

Although I haven't seen many of them, I'm told that maybe two or three out of ten MIC guitars are actually a great guitar. With Martin, I'd bet that that figure is more like eight or nine out of ten.

 

My favorite guitar is Chinese made. I paid a few hundred for it. To me, now, it serves me as well as a Martin could, and for considerably less money. It could be that if I grow in my knowledge of music enough, I will learn to appreciate these intangible qualities that Martin can offer over a Chinese guitar. Martins are nice, but not all of us can justify having them.

[garthman]

Why a Martin? For many of the reasons that have already been stated .

Do I like them? Yes - they are excellent guitars.

Would I ever buy one? No - I'd rather spend my money on a Crafter or Cort or Tanglewood or Yamaha and spend a few weeks in Greece on the money I save.

[wooglins]

Why a Martin? For many of the reasons that have already been stated . Do I like them? Yes - they are excellent guitars. Would I ever buy one? No - I'd rather spend my money on a Crafter or Cort or Tanglewood or Yamaha and spend a few weeks in Greece on the money I save.

 

 

That is a good point, but can you really travel to Greece for 300 - 500 dollars? A really good Martin can be had for 800 bucks.

[TN.Frank]

I would LOVE to own a Martin someday but I just can't afford or justify spending $800+ on ANY guitar. Right now I'm living in the $200-$400 guitar market. I love the sound of my FG720S, it's hard to imagine anything that would sound better. I'm sure there are many guitars that do sound better but at what cost? For now I just have to be happy with what I can afford.

[mrmoe]

I've always thought Martins are decent, in fact I own a d-28.....traded off a Taylor 710 that I never could warm up to in order to buy it....as I said, it's decent but it's a far cry from some of the 30 to 40 year old d-18's I've played...I also have a 1964 Epiphone drednaught.....it has mahogany back and sides and its projection and sound are much better than the 2005 d-28....if you're thinking that the mahogany Epiphone is an "apples and oranges" comparison, I also play a 35 year old g-70 Gallagher....it is superior to the d-28 in every way.....damned near twice as loud and the equal to any pre war d-18 I've ever played....now this will upset some of the Martin lovers, but I own an OM-03 Larrivee that I would rate as the d-28's equal....in fact, the Larrivee is easier to mic and record than any guitar I can think of.....

[slagorourke]

Why Martin? Well, a lot of people will buy one because their favourite players use them. Americans will buy them because they're American - and if it ain't American it ain't s**t. Stupid ethos, but there you go. It's the same thinking that makes people buy Harley Davidson, despite them being the very worst motorcycles on earth. Others still will buy them because of the 'history' and the 'heritage'. Others will buy because they just loved the tone, and the sound suits the music they like to play.

I bought mine for the latter reason, and the fact that I will keep them for many years, at which point I'll recoup most of my money if I ever decide to sell. The low profile neck was a big factor for me also, as it just seems to suit me better than most guitars.

There are plenty of reasons for and against buying a Martin, but for me it comes down to tone and playability more than anything else. Others will prefer the tone and playability of some other brand, and good for them, I say.
I certainly didn't buy mine because it says 'MARTIN' on the headstock, and I don't give a damn for the 175 years of mom's apple pie schmaltzy history they are forever trying to peddle.

There are lots of great guitars in the world. Love Martin or hate Martin. Or just don't care one way or the other. Buy what you like and enjoy playing it. It's just a wooden box, after all.

[EvilTwin]

They're shaped like Martins, therefore they must play and sound like them? They're also shaped like Collings, SC's and Dudenbostels, so they must play and sound like those too.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

Are some Martins overpriced? Sure. I can't see any reason to pay $900 for a 000M:

http://www.samash.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_000M%20Acoustic%20Guitar_-1_10052_10002_-49964184?cm_mmc=Google-_-Steel%20String%20Acoustic-_-000M%20Acoustic%20Guitar-_-M000M

 

I bought a Seagull S6+Folk with basically the same specs (fingerstyle guitar with a solid top, lam sides and a hardshell case) for $350. Worth every penny, too.

 

OTOH, if you shop around, you can find a Martin D-16GT for under a grand. That's a fair price for what you get, IMO.

 

Why buy a Martin? For the same reason people buy a Rolex or Tag Heuer watch.

[Queequeg]

and for all the reasons detailed above, there are Martins and there are Taylors and Gibsons and a bevy of Asian made guitars because each of has our own criteria as to what (and who) makes a great guitar.

something for everyone

(and every budget)

At the end of the day, 24/7, its all good. Because it is what it is.

and you can quote me on that.

[kwakatak]

Good point, mrmoe. I love my OM-03R and would put it up against an OM/000-16 any day of the week. Yes, I'd say that it's even "nicer" than a D-28, but easier to mic? Of course: it's a "balanced" OM, not a bass-heavy dreadnought.