Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 is but at the same time they came out with the Mustang. CORRECTION : How much do you know about the Escort's history ??? FORD's Escort was one of the best World Rally'ing cars of the late 70's early 80's and won many, many World Rally Events all over the world ! Many of the world rally champion drivers drove Escorts ! They are still being used (with winning results) to this day, all over the world, for provincial & national rally events as well as hill climb events ! One of the best cars Ford has ever made !!! - winning open wheel cars ! - 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbl8LgLXwRo - I can go on for ever about the international win's that the all mighty Escort has behind it's name ! And NO, i do not own an Escort. I have a Golf MKI and Omega Sea Master Mine . . . OK, BACK TO GUITARS . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slagorourke Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 CORRECTION :How much do you know about the Escort's history ???FORD's Escort was one of the best World Rally'ing cars of the late 70's early 80's and won many, many World Rally Events all over the world !Many of the world rally champion drivers drove Escorts !They are still being used (with winning results) to this day, all over the world, for provincial & national rally events as well as hill climb events !One of the best cars Ford has ever made !!! Agreed. The Mustang meanwhile was an image on wheels. I'd choose an RS2000 every time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 I don't blame anybody for expecting a good day's pay for a good day's work. It's our high standard of living that has created the situation. Japan and China didn't have anything to do with it. UAW workers in Detroit are making, with benefits and a little overtime, in the neighborhood of $100K per annum. And, they keep wanting more an more money all the time. They have this convoluted idea that turning a bolt when something comes up in front of them is "skilled labor". What they have is limited skills, but a very strong labor union. I'm amazed that you can stiill buy a decent Ford or Chevy for what they're selling for. I would imagine a lot of us are going to see the day when that all comes to a screeching halt. It's just a matter of time. You proved your ignorance by putting Japan and China in the same sentence. A high quality Japanese product (car, guitar, furniture, etc.) will cost you close to the same as a high quality USA made product. Why? Japan has a highly skilled, well paid workforce. The USA is one of the least unionized industrial countries in the world. The problem isn't with union wages. Our minimum wage is 10 times higher than what a worker makes in China. Stop being stupid. Your facts about UAW workers are complete nonsense and pure speculated bull{censored} on your part. The 2007 agreement pays all future non skilled workers an average of $14.50 per hour. Skilled labor in the UAW is apprenticable trades such as electricians, plumbers, hydraulic repair, machine repair, millwrights, AC repair, carpenters, etc. The UAW skilled trades are paid wages that are in line with skilled trades in every industry in the USA (union and non union). The apprenticeship programs requires between 15 and 20 college courses (depending on the trade and the college) and 7600 hours on the job. It takes nearly 4 years to complete an apprenticeship. What do you do for a living? I bet I can tell you a bunch of nonsense and speculated bull{censored} about your career choice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 But you're missing the point. People don't care how it sounds as long as it says "Martin" on the headstock so they can brag that they've got a Martin. I can't stand the idea of HPL, especially on a company that CAN make such a great guitar like Martin. It's like buying a Mustang or Camaro with a 4 cyl in it, WHY, they demand a built V8. Martin demands all solid wood, not HPL. If I want laminate I'll get something that sells for $200 or less, not a $400 Martin. For $400 I can get an all solid wood Silver Creed or at least something with a solid top. Just because a company has been around for a long time doesn't automatically make them better then one that's only been around a few years. Case in point, Ford. They were pretty much the first auto maker in this country, they've had some great cars but they've also built some real dogs, ever hear of the Escort, LOL. What a POS that little car is but at the same time they came out with the Mustang. Frank, I like your analogy about buying a Mustang or Camero and getting a 4 cylinder in it. Kinda like buying one of the "low end" Martins. Regarding the Escort analogy, I think the Pinto was the worst Ford car I can recall - remember that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 Frank, I like your analogy about buying a Mustang or Camero and getting a 4 cylinder in it. Kinda like buying one of the "low end" Martins. Regarding the Escort analogy, I think the Pinto was the worst Ford car I can recall - remember that one? The Edsel was a marque of the Ford Motor Company during the 1958, 1959, and 1960 model years. The brand is known best as one of the biggest commercial failures in the history of American business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 Yep, forgot the Edsel. But at least they didn't have exploding gas tanks when rear ended like the Pinto did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Queequeg Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 Yep, forgot the Edsel. But at least they didn't have exploding gas tanks when rear ended like the Pinto did. right. that hadn't been perfected yet. (was still under development) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted February 16, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 Frank, I like your analogy about buying a Mustang or Camero and getting a 4 cylinder in it. Kinda like buying one of the "low end" Martins. Regarding the Escort analogy, I think the Pinto was the worst Ford car I can recall - remember that one? I was going to say Pinto but then I remember one night crusin' in my '73 Buick Century with a mildly built 455cid engine. It was pretty quick for a full size car, then I made the mistake of racing a guy driving a Pinto. He ate my lunch and gave me change back from my dollar,LOL. I ask him what in heck he had in that thing. He told me it was a 302cid he'd yanked out of another car he had. V8 Pintos, just like V8 Vegas are quick little buggers. As far as Escorts go, work in a parts store for a few months and you'll see just how many people truly hate em'. The one's that win the races are far from factory stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 The Edsel was a marque of the Ford Motor Company during the 1958, 1959, and 1960 model years. The brand is known best as one of the biggest commercial failures in the history of American business. The Edsel was indeed a commercial failure. Ford lost big on it. The Edsel was actually a well designed car for its time, with lots of innovative features, but it was expensive, and it was fugly. The car buying public did not like the styling, and was not willing to spend the extra cash for all the little extras it had. Unlike the Pintos, they are very collectible now. Anybody remember the Chevrolet Vega, with the aluminum engine that had a habit of self destructing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 How about the Cadillac Cimarron, anybody remember that one? In the early 80's it was Cadillac's entry into the low end market with a gussied up Chevy Cavalier. A disaster to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted February 16, 2009 Members Share Posted February 16, 2009 I was going to say Pinto but then I remember one night crusin' in my '73 Buick Century with a mildly built 455cid engine. It was pretty quick for a full size car, then I made the mistake of racing a guy driving a Pinto. He ate my lunch and gave me change back from my dollar,LOL. I ask him what in heck he had in that thing. He told me it was a 302cid he'd yanked out of another car he had. V8 Pintos, just like V8 Vegas are quick little buggers. As far as Escorts go, work in a parts store for a few months and you'll see just how many people truly hate em'. The one's that win the races are far from factory stock. Keeping it in perspective: The Ford Escort was an economy vehicle - not a luxury car or a sports car. It was designed to be inexpensive and good on gas. The Escort brand was a long time, top seller for Ford in the USA (and to a lesser degree in Europe) for 20+ years. It is considered one of their most successful vehicles of all time (next to the F150 and the Taurus). You should expect a lot of auto part business for a car that was a top seller for 20 + years. The fact that there are still tons of 1980 and 1990 Escorts on the road is proof that they were well made economy cars. I recently owned a 1994 Escort with 150,000 miles on it. I would still be driving it if it wasn't totaled in a hit and run accident last year. I work with guys that own Escorts with more than 200,000 miles on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjoxyz Posted February 17, 2009 Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 I recently owned a 1994 Escort with 150,000 miles on it. I would still be driving it if it wasn't totaled in a hit and run accident last year. I work with guys that own Escorts with more than 200,000 miles on them. Why would you UAW types be driving old, high mile Escorts? Everyone knows you all earn about $370,000 with a little overtime. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted February 17, 2009 Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 Why would you UAW types be driving old, high mile Escorts? Everyone knows you all earn about $370,000 with a little overtime. Right? It's hard to get mad at them. All they know is the propaganda they are handed by the media. "Overtime" went away when the economy began slowing down a few years ago. Even the all mighty Toyota is hurting right now. They cut production and are cutting heads like the Big 3 did. In addition, they got aid from Japan. Funny how those stories never make the news. Did I mention the fact that Toyota workers in the USA make wages and benefits almost identical to the Big 3 workers? It seems like the entire world is looking at the 1980 US auto industry as the industry of today. They are completely out of touch. Even our US Senators are clueless when it comes to the Big 3 contracts. They were quoting contractual language from the 1999 agreement and spreading the same old UAW myths in the process. It seems dumb to suggest the UAW is responsible for the current global economic melt down that is crushing the auto industry. Common sense would suggest that it is hard to sell vehicles when the banks are being tight with credit and people are unemployed. Oh well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted February 17, 2009 Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 The point is if you have a respected brand name, then respect it and keep it respected. Build your product line to enhance your image, not cheapen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted February 17, 2009 Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 The point is if you have a respected brand name, then respect it and keep it respected. Build your product line to enhance your image, not cheapen it. I agree, but you also must take calculated risks in business or you will be left behind. You don't stay in business for 100+ years without making a few risky decisions that fail to pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wooglins Posted February 17, 2009 Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/001426.html The above interview is from a few years ago. It is an interview with CF Martin IV and is very interesting. Below is a section I find interesting... I bet they discovered they had nothing on the wall at Guitar Center in the 400 dollar range and wanted to get something there that would hold up, and withstand retail conditions. Martin Guitar has a room with competitors' guitars available for employees to play? CFM: We buy competitive products. We bring them in to benchmark. We also do benchmarking trips to local dealers. I'll go out with the Quality Assurance Techs where we usually stop at one or two specialty shops, boutique shop. Generally we'll go to Philadelphia or New York. It's to show my colleagues what we are up against and we see that in the boutique shops. They're all making fine guitars. And then I show them what were up against at Guitar Center, when there are 300 guitars on the wall, all the strings are dead, they all have scratches, some of them are $99 and some are $3,399! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted February 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2009 The point is if you have a respected brand name, then respect it and keep it respected. Build your product line to enhance your image, not cheapen it. Yep, that's pretty much what I was trying to get at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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