Members flemtone Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 This is a truly great thread. In such an adversarial forum, it's delightful to see the occasional thread where people put away their baggage and talk about the one thing that brings us all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 I prefer describing it as more "stripped down" - not a bunch of studio production and processing, not a ton of effects, just good (for the most part) songs presented simply and competently. For me, Fogerty's voice was a big part of the appeal. Plus, he wasn't a half-bad guitarist - heck, he's a dang genius compared to some of his contemporaries - like Robbie Krieger. Oh, most definitely. I understand and appreciate 'stripped down' NOW. But during my earliest guitar years, I didn't like crunchy guits; I wanted straight clean or all out distortion (a la grunge rock). I was incapable of appreciating the Stones side of things and just wanted the Beatles side. After playing live a lot, I finally understood the power of 'stripped down' and the thrill of live music--something you can't recreate with a billion effects on a concept album. Nowadays, a crunchy plexi is one of my favorite sounds. I understand the expression it bestows to the guitarist in a live situation! It still 'looks' less colorful to me in my head, but the effects can be too easy, too overdone. I haven't yet ever enjoyed Neil Young though. His voice and acoustic guitar still 'sound/look' white and wintery to me. Something about the presence of steel string acoustics elicits that. And You g's voice/lyrics are still annoying, even though I have young hipster post-rock friends who love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I haven't yet ever enjoyed Neil Young though. His voice and acoustic guitar still 'sound/look' white and wintery to me. Something about the presence of steel string acoustics elicits that. And You g's voice/lyrics are still annoying, even though I have young hipster post-rock friends who love it. Neil was really popular when I was in high school, and I do like a lot of his stuff, but it's not his voice that I thought was annoying - it was his lead guitar tone. I LOVE the sound of an old 5E3 Deluxe on meltdown, but Neil's lead tone always seemed way too nasally and shrill to me. That aside, I could never put him in the "can't stand" category - not with albums like Harvest and Rust Never Sleeps in his discography. He's done too much good work for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zig al-din Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 I prefer describing it as more "stripped down" - not a bunch of studio production and processing, not a ton of effects, just good (for the most part) songs presented simply and competently. For me, Fogerty's voice was a big part of the appeal. Plus, he wasn't a half-bad guitarist - heck, he's a dang genius compared to some of his contemporaries - like Robbie Krieger. Kreiger's playing was perfect for the Doors. Ok if you don't like their music, that's one thing, but I don't see any grounds for slagging off on him. Those bits he came up with in songs like Love Me Two Times and People are Strange are great. He's not Larry Carlton, but a showboat technical guitarist wouldn't have fit with what the Doors were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 Domo. But I love AC/DC, pretty much for the Marshall tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kreatorkind Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 Steely Dan are one of my absolute all time faves Yeah, I know. I hope this doesn't ruin our friendship. I can agree on the greatful dead but the Dan Chicago and BB&HC are some of my all time favorites. BB&HC guitarist James Gurley's guitar sound is what inspired me to play guitar. and terry Kath? come on!! even Hendrix didn't want to follow him on stage It's really not about the musicianship for me, I just don't like their songs. They just do nothing for me emotionally, and if that doesn't happen for me, I don't tend to dig deeper. Unless it's a band that I grew up listening to. Steely Dan is one of my favorite bands. Chicago was a big band for me too, although I never thought they were the same after Terry Kath died and Peter Cetera went wuss. I could take or leave the Dead, depending on how well they did that day. As Anton said, they're about as inconsistent as any band ever to step on a stage... and they were all about the stage. Forget studio recordings - stick to the better bootlegs. The one classic rock band I really never got at all (with the exception of maybe one or two songs) is the Doors. I still think they're generally way over-rated. YMMV. I dunno man, I just don't "get" Steely Dan. It's like a girl that everyone says is super hot, but does nothing for me down below. ya know? Steely Dan is the Megan Fox of music for me. I don't hate the Doors, but I'm not all gaga over them either. The songs I like of theirs are the ones with the more creepy vibe, like "The End" or "Riders on the Storm". Even then, it's really just an appreciation of the vibe, not really impressed by the lyrics or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Kreiger's playing was perfect for the Doors. Ok if you don't like their music, that's one thing, but I don't see any grounds for slagging off on him. Those bits he came up with in songs like Love Me Two Times and People are Strange are great. He's not Larry Carlton, but a showboat technical guitarist wouldn't have fit with what the Doors were doing. I expected to take some flak for that comment. While he may have been perfect for the Doors, the Doors weren't really a perfect match for my listening tastes. YMMV. Either way, I still think John Fogerty was a better all-around guitarist. Again, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Red Ant Posted December 8, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2016 Yeah, I know. I hope this doesn't ruin our friendship. Of course not I dunno man, I just don't "get" Steely Dan. It's like a girl that everyone says is super hot, but does nothing for me down below. ya know? Steely Dan is the Megan Fox of music for me. I know lots of people who don't dig Steely Dan. Its pretty simple, to love SD you have to a) appreciate Jazz and The Great American Songbook b) like meticulous, slick production c) Appreciate subtly subversive, darkly creepy lyrics over deceptively "nice, pleasant" hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 I thought it was driving us farther apart. I mean, just look at all the arguments in favor of Steve Perry. Oh, wait!Nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Some of the best audio engineering you'll find anywhere, you'll find on Steely Dan records. Man, I miss Roger Nichols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 As well, the only songs they made any money from were Kreiger's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 Fogerty has the unique distinction of being a guy who got sued for plagiarizing himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 And you have to have to overlook the fact that Fagen is 'funny looking'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kreatorkind Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 Of course not I know lots of people who don't dig Steely Dan. Its pretty simple, to love SD you have to a) appreciate Jazz and The Great American Songbook b) like meticulous, slick production c) Appreciate subtly subversive, darkly creepy lyrics over deceptively "nice, pleasant" hooks. Well, there's my problem... Only "C" applies to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Red Ant Posted December 8, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2016 Some of the best audio engineering you'll find anywhere, you'll find on Steely Dan records. Man, I miss Roger Nichols. I got to "sit at the feet of The Immortal" while they were making "Two Against Nature"... I got stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Red Ant Posted December 8, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2016 And Becker isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hoddy Posted December 8, 2016 Members Share Posted December 8, 2016 I always found Steely Dan to be really boring...boring in like background elevator music...no fire or passion in their music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'll give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteinbergerHack Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 I always found Steely Dan to be really boring...boring in like background elevator music...no fire or passion in their music. Really? I don't understand how you could listen to Aja and not feel fire and passion in Gadd's drum work.....maybe it's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 Uh oh. When jazz and rock meet, people are bound to get testy. Afterall, a fusion reaction is much more explosive than fission. Hehehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 Neil was really popular when I was in high school, and I do like a lot of his stuff, but it's not his voice that I thought was annoying - it was his lead guitar tone. I LOVE the sound of an old 5E3 Deluxe on meltdown, but Neil's lead tone always seemed way too nasally and shrill to me. That aside, I could never put him in the "can't stand" category - not with albums like Harvest and Rust Never Sleeps in his discography. He's done too much good work for that. I hear ya. I can dig him much more when electric. And dear god no, I'd never put him in the unbearable category with Boston. Barf.... If Donald Trump invites some Boston reboot to play the WH, then I'll know for sure he's trying to torture me to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Malcolm Ramone Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 I have to agree with a lot of folks here. My top 'button pushers', as in change the station, do feature Journey, Boston, Doobies, Foreigner... We have a local independent CR station here, 95.7 "The Ride", which plays a Chicago song almost every hour, plus such forgettable gems as "Still the One, Thunder Island. Drivers' Seat, and Love is like Oxygen"... They do play some forgotten songs I like, such as "Spirit in the Sky, Smokin' in the Boy's Room, and James Taylor, Neil Young, etc. Also Men at Work, I've come to appreciate them 30 years later. I don't mind Steve Miller, but the solo on 'Abracadabra' has to be one of the most uninspired ever!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 And if I remember correctly, neil young was sued by geffen for not sounding enough like himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grumpy_Polecat Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 Steve Miller (who was tutored by Les Paul while he was still in diapers -- I mean Steve, of course!) put out a BIG bunch of good stuff. Abra wasn't among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDMachiavelli Posted December 9, 2016 Members Share Posted December 9, 2016 No. but it was so excruciatingly painfully obvious. I noticed in the U2 concert at the Rose Bowl during "Vertigo" that the large oval TV was spread out from top to bottom one minute, and compressed to the bottom the next. i.e. they mixed scenes where you could not see what they were playing to give the song visual excitement. And the Eagles concert in Austrailia, in one song, Joe Walsh's guitar changes from gray to black and gray again a few times. Obviously they had used scenes from different nights shows to use the best video. Those are just a couple of examples. But in The Last Waltz, it was like watching a band lip synch in the early 60's American Band Stand. It did not even feel live. It was missing what I look for in a live recording - the kernel of why I buy them in the first place. So you are referring more so to the video dubbing and editing more so than what I would consider studio "over dubbing"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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