Interesting choice of words for an Obama article...

[the stranger]

Do you not see how both parties have hijacked our economic system and led it to ruin? Do you not see that blaming one party over another is only perpertuating the problem? Even Bill Clinton blamed Democrats for their part in this at the end of that video. And he's right. Conservatives are mad as hell at the Republican party and rightly so. Liberals ought to be equally outraged at the democrats. Back in the 70s and early 80s I was a democrat until the democratic party left me. Then I became a republican until the republican party left me. Now I'm more conservative libertarian than anything else. The Republicans had a chance to balance the budget and rein in spending and they failed epically. And now the Democrats are using the 'financial crisis' to spend us into oblivion on things that have nothing to do with economic recovery. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Free market capitalism hasn't failed. The fact is we haven't had it since the 1930s when government started getting hopelessly entangled in the private sector, a development the founders never envisioned nor intended. Maybe if we tried a real free market it would work. But we'll never know the way we're headed. Another fact is that every capitalist economy goes in 60-80 year cycles of boom and bust. A free market would correct itself in a matter of months. Government intervention of bailing out and propping up failures at taxpayer expense only prolongs the pain, postpones the inevitable and takes more capital out of the market and converts it to debt. But in any event, as long as we insist that this mess is a partisan affair and we keep blaming the other side as being the sole purveyors of this rot and defending ours as being paragons of virtue, we are all cooked. We're being sold down the river by both parties who are interested only in acquiring and maintaining power with the control of the public purse strings. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. We can't borrow our way out of debt and we can't spend our way to prosperity. That isn't a partisan idea. That's just fact, and both parties are ignoring it.

 

REPORTED!

 

...for a

[lonotes]

They all had their fingers in the pie and they all wanted to scoop all the filling out of it they could while they could for as long as they could.

 

 

MMMMMM, pie. I like pie.

[BlueStrat]

MMMMMM, pie. I like pie.

 

Me, too...especially when it's yours!

[lonotes]

Me, too...especially when it's yours!

 

I'm not piped that way, and you're a carpenter, not a plumber. :poke:

[Etienne Rambert]

Pretty good videos stranger. They're a bit dated in the era of Google and a thousand cable-satellite channels though.

But the vids are still pretty good at defining the structure of American news broadcasts.

 

Investigative journalism is expensive - not to mention dangerous. It's much cheaper for reporters

to be spoon-fed stuff at press conferences and for editors to sign off on the bull sh*t.

 

The only news channel I can get in Vietnam is Bloomberg. I haven't missed

TV news at all. TV Monde in France is pretty good. I can pick that up. Can't get the BBC though.

[pink floyd cramer]

OK THEN (sheesh) If everybody is done spanking me I'll apologize to Blue- for the heavy sarcasm and smilie abuse/omission. I had thought everyone could see through the absurdity of my assertions- guess not. A little would have gone a long way. Sometimes I like to play devil's advocate.

 

Actually I don't think the answers to our problems lies in throwing the baby out with the bathwater and ditching a system (capitolism, free market) that has served us well in favor of moving us closer to a system that serves nobody well (socialism). I know people want and need change, but correcting abuses and rooting out corruption would BE substantive change. Instead of giving free rein to someone who's only qualifications seem to be oratical skills, to remake the country in HIS image. That may be harsh but that's what it's looking like so far, hope I'm wrong.

[BlueStrat]

OK THEN (sheesh) If everybody is done spanking me I'll apologize to Blue- for the heavy sarcasm and smilie abuse/omission. I had thought everyone could see through the absurdity of my assertions- guess not. A little would have gone a long way. Sometimes I like to play devil's advocate. Actually I don't think the answers to our problems lies in throwing the baby out with the bathwater and ditching a system (capitolism, free market) that has served us well in favor of moving us closer to a system that serves nobody well (socialism). I know people want and need change, but correcting abuses and rooting out corruption would BE substantive change. Instead of giving free rein to someone who's only qualifications seem to be oratical skills, to remake the country in HIS image. That may be harsh but that's what it's looking like so far, hope I'm wrong.

 

Well, now I feel like a complete dipwad.

 

Thanks for clarifying though-that post didn't seem like you.

[pink floyd cramer]

No man I'm the dipwad here! Every forum needs (or at least, seems to have) at least one.

[amplayer]

 

Ignoring your childish name calling, explain how it is spin to let the guys who helped create this mess speak for themselves? They plainly have said that no problem existed when clearly it did. Now these are the same people in charge of fixing it. Does that not cause you concern? Do you not see how both parties have hijacked our economic system and led it to ruin? Do you not see that blaming one party over another is only perpetuating the problem? Even Bill Clinton blamed Democrats for their part in this at the end of that video. And he's right. Conservatives are mad as hell at the Republican party and rightly so. Liberals ought to be equally outraged at the democrats. Back in the 70s and early 80s I was a democrat until the democratic party left me. Then I became a republican until the republican party left me. Now I'm more conservative libertarian than anything else. The Republicans had a chance to balance the budget and rein in spending and they failed epically. And now the Democrats are using the 'financial crisis' to spend us into oblivion on things that have nothing to do with economic recovery. Republicans blame Democrats when they themselves failed to act when they had the chance, And now that the Dems are in control they're blaming Republicans when they themselves are now doing the same thing Republicans did only on steriods. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Free market capitalism hasn't failed. The fact is we haven't had it since the 1930s when government started getting hopelessly entangled in the private sector, a development the founders never envisioned nor intended. Maybe if we tried a real free market it would work. But we'll never know the way we're headed. Another fact is that every capitalist economy goes in 60-80 year cycles of boom and bust. A free market would correct itself in a matter of months. Government intervention of bailing out and propping up failures at taxpayer expense only prolongs the pain, postpones the inevitable and takes more capital out of the market and converts it to debt. But in any event, as long as we insist that this mess is a partisan affair and we keep blaming the other side as being the sole purveyors of this rot and defending ours as being paragons of virtue, we are all cooked. We're being sold down the river by both parties who are interested only in acquiring and maintaining power with the control of the public purse strings. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. We can't borrow our way out of debt and we can't spend our way to prosperity. That isn't a partisan idea. That's just fact, and both parties are ignoring it.

 

 

Another +1 for the BlueStrat!

I'd add a smiley face except that the sorry fact is that you're right, and because the politicians are so greedy and the public so stupid, our country is screwed, and that's not something I can smile about.

 

As for me, I am a conservative first. If the Republicans act like tax and spenders, they don't get my vote. If Republicans are immoral, they don't get my vote. Democrats, on the other hand, have no chance for my vote because they're tax and spend "spread the wealth" by definition. I want desperately to see the end of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid era of massive government expansion, but unless the Republicans or somebody else shows they're really willing to "Change" what's being done, it really doesn't matter.

[Anderton]

 

As for me, I am a conservative first. If the Republicans act like tax and spenders, they don't get my vote. If Republicans are immoral, they don't get my vote. Democrats, on the other hand, have no chance for my vote because they're tax and spend "spread the wealth" by definition. I want desperately to see the end of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid era of massive government expansion, but unless the Republicans or somebody else shows they're really willing to "Change" what's being done, it really doesn't matter.

 

 

I honestly believe the Dems think they're doing the right thing, even as I believe that they aren't.

 

It reminds me of the conversation I had last year with a conservative Republican friend who was going to vote for Obama. I was shocked, and asked why. "Because I've run the numbers. Obama's strategy will bankrupt the country, but McCain's will bankrupt it sooner."

 

There is one glimmer of hope, and that's if the government expansion is truly an INVESTMENT in deed, not just in words. Example: Let's assume for the sake of round numbers that the nation borrows $1 trillion and that a significant amount is invested in energy independence. The US sends about $800 billion abroad every year for energy. If that $1 trillion buys us 25% energy independence and we get to keep $200 billion a year inside this country, then in five years that $1 trillion has paid for itself. After that, it provides a profit.

 

The problem is that it seems few people are willing to look five and ten years ahead. The Chinese, on the other hand, have 5 year, 10 year, and even 50 year plans - and look where that's gotten them. They're patient. They don't have to take over the world by next quarter, next century will do just fine.

[amplayer]

 

I honestly believe the Dems think they're doing the right thing, even as I believe that they aren't. It reminds me of the conversation I had last year with a conservative Republican friend who was going to vote for Obama. I was shocked, and asked why. "Because I've run the numbers. Obama's strategy will bankrupt the country, but McCain's will bankrupt it sooner." There is one glimmer of hope, and that's if the government expansion is truly an INVESTMENT in deed, not just in words. Example: Let's assume for the sake of round numbers that the nation borrows $1 trillion and that a significant amount is invested in energy independence. The US sends about $800 billion abroad every year for energy. If that $1 trillion buys us 25% energy independence and we get to keep $200 billion a year inside this country, then in five years that $1 trillion has paid for itself. After that, it provides a profit. The problem is that it seems few people are willing to look five and ten years ahead. The Chinese, on the other hand, have 5 year, 10 year, and even 50 year plans - and look where that's gotten them. They're patient. They don't have to take over the world by next quarter, next century will do just fine.

 

 

The problem is, Obama/Pelosi/Reid are NOT looking 5 or 10 years ahead. They're spending everything they can to try to win elections in 2010 and 2012. The amount they're investing in energy independence is a tiny amount of the total they're spending. Take a good hard look at all the spending and you'll see they have no inclination to "invest in America", but rather to invest in their own political short term futures.

If Obama/Pelosi/Reid really wanted energy independence, they'd accept the fact that green energy requires a long term investment and that American oil and clean coal are the near term requirement. The fact that they won't allow off shore drilling while simultaneously chanting energy independence is an insult to the small amount of intelligence of the American voters.

Whether McCain would/could have done better is debatable. However, there can be no denying that the Obama/Pelosi/Reid juggernaut is spending like crazy, and by crazy I mean crazy for the long term health of the economy. Unless something is done to stop their ridiculous spending, the only result can be rampant inflation or maybe even bankruptcy.

Is it surprising that the Chinese don't want American dollars to be the currency of choice anymore? No. The Chinese have watched their massive investment in US dollars go right down the drain because they understand the implications of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid (and Bush) wanton spending. Pretty soon, it will be hard for the US government to find enough suckers to buy up the debt. What then?

[UstadKhanAli]

Democrats, on the other hand, have no chance for my vote because they're tax and spend "spread the wealth" by definition.

 

I'm not even sure if any "definitions" towards Democrats and Republicans apply anymore. Republicans are supposedly for free market economies and fiscal responsibility and small government, in yet they choose to bail out organizations and spend so much it'd make a Democrat queasy and devalue the dollar and increase the size of the government by three times the size in only eight years. So how do you even tell the damn difference between them anymore? The only difference between Democrats and Republican politicians is that Republican politicians seem to have far more homosexual encounters!

 

I think both parties are irresponsible, short-sighted, and love spending like crazy. I think both parties completely suck. I think both parties are completely full of sh*t.

 

P.S. This is probably the most I'll ever sound like The Stranger!

[the stranger]

[amplayer]

I'm not even sure if any "definitions" towards Democrats and Republicans apply anymore. Republicans are supposedly for free market economies and fiscal responsibility and small government, in yet they choose to bail out organizations and spend so much it'd make a Democrat queasy and devalue the dollar and increase the size of the government by three times the size in only eight years. So how do you even tell the damn difference between them anymore? The only difference between Democrats and Republican politicians is that Republican politicians seem to have far more homosexual encounters! I think both parties are irresponsible, short-sighted, and love spending like crazy. I think both parties completely suck. I think both parties are completely full of sh*t. P.S. This is probably the most I'll ever sound like The Stranger!

 

Actually, I'd have to agree with you for the most part.

Nevertheless, now that the Republicans are NOT in power, the Congressional Republicans have submitted a counter-proposal budget that is essentially the antithesis of what the Obama/Pelosi/Reid admin has done. Of course, maybe these same Republicans would just go ahead and spend like crazy just like their Dem counterparts if they thought it would get them re-elected like the Dems obviously think it will. Unfortunately, I think the Dem's strategy of paying off so many people will work wonderfully at getting them re-elected even though it is simultaneously bankrupting the country.

[the stranger]

Here ya go...no more wait and see with Mr. New Boss Same As The Old Boss Obama.

 

Obama seeks $83.4 billion more in 2009 war funds

 

We're getting ripped off, people. And we've got the blood on our hands, too.

 

Do you support the killing of innocent civilians and children?

 

Do you pay taxes?

 

It's way past time for serious protest. The feds know it, too. Why do you think they tear gas entire crowds preemptively now?

 

Recently RNC protesters we're charged as "terrorists", according to Democracy Now. With provisions in The Patriot Act and subsequent legislation. ("conspiracy to riot in furtherance of terrorism")

 

This is serious business, people. Fascism is here. Welcome to the 4th Reich.

 

Run by global corporations for better human regulation and management to maximize profit and compliance.

[the stranger]

Update:

 

The PA is dropping the terrorism charges against the eight charged, but will continue with the other criminal charges.

 

This still serves as a perfect example of what is severely wrong with the Patriot Act and subsequent legislation.

 

When protest equals terrorism, there is a problem.

 

And for all the minor incidents by the black hat anarchists (CIA) at major protests, the law enforcement has caused far more problems.

 

Just go to youtube and watch all the video footage. It sure isn't the protesters causing the majority of the trouble.

 

Just because your mainstream corporate news puppet said this and that doesn't mean it's anything close to the truth.

 

Go to youtube and watch the various footage of militarized police spraying tear gas on crowds with hoses. Children and and entirely innocent peaceful crowds sprayed down to get them to disperse.

 

Police fire chemical agents, projectiles at RNC protesters ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- St. Paul police fired chemical agents and projectiles into a large crowd of protesters outside the Republican National Convention on Tuesday night. A large group of demonstrators marched toward the Xcel Energy Center on Tuesday. Witnesses said the protesters marched from the grounds of the state Capitol after a concert there ended abruptly. The protesters were noisy but peaceful as they approached the convention. Once they arrived, a police officer read an order to disperse, CNN reporters on the scene said. But almost immediately, officers along the exit route opened fire with gas and projectiles. In one instance, a CNN producer said, an officer stepped out of line to hit a young woman with pepper spray as she ran for the exit.

 

In other words, they went to protest at the RNC and the police ordered them to disperse and then attacked the crowd. How's that for a blatant abridgment of your 1st amendment rights?

 

This is just one example among far too many. Flowers and non-violence gets you this: (Notice the news guy runs up and takes a picture and then the cop sprays. Good grief....did they get the shot? I'm not sure who to be more annoyed with, the news guy or the cops...of course, the girl was enjoying it, too...and did the cop get her or did he think he needed to get her some more even though she had turned around...maybe they knew she liked it...wtf...and at the end it looks like the cops are doing a freakin dance to the music that playing with their fascism march...)

 

[YOUTUBE]Kyvsc1ktgJE[/YOUTUBE]

 

Now watch this clip as the news guy says "anarchists" like 347 times. Really getting their spin on. I was laughing halfway into it because he kept saying anarchists with that tone, like knocking over that newspaper stand was terrorism. And notice how all the "mayhem" they were showing was really just a couple losers and some good camera work? (Aside from the guy smashing that window, but he was stupid. I doubt it's he's national security threat.

 

[YOUTUBE]VO14kMfBa7Y[/YOUTUBE]

 

And notice how they are really trying to parallel protest with anarchy?

 

And the various footage on youtube shows the police engaging crowds and ordering them to disperse and with little warning, start firing into the crowd.

 

Check this out:

 

[YOUTUBE]TcXFBfc5n4k[/YOUTUBE]

 

Are we wasting tax money doing this anti-terror operation that involves arresting some losers and kids?

 

These kids were stupid, no doubt. But who does "Ms. Givens" work for?

 

And various raids? How many homes did they raid? Are there that many stupid people that can be coerced to be in possession of tire spikes?

 

I don't know. The whole thing stinks. If it wasn't for W, we wouldn't have a bunch of loser type anarchists hoarding 5 gallon buckets of piss.

 

I'll come back when I've done some more research. Which really isn't necessary. The police will shoot protesters. The crowd dynamic and the adversarial position the police take ensure riot conditions. All it takes is just one incident to incite a riot. The research is there. And showing up in armored vehicles, in full body armor, armed to the teeth, in defensive position...I mean come on, it's like the cops are looking for trouble. The protesters are against war and stuff, remember?

 

How {censored}ing sad is it that some girl is holding a flower protesting the war and getting tear gassed by the police...in 2009?!

 

Forty years later.

[Ernest Buckley]

After reading this thread, I`ve decided to move to Switzerland.

[BlueStrat]

After reading this thread, I`ve decided to move to Switzerland.

 

 

 

Here ya go!

 

 

 

[Ernest Buckley]

 

Thanks... I think.

[the stranger]

I love America. What's the weather like in Switzerland?

[BlueStrat]

Thanks... I think.

 

I posted the extra large set because I might be going with you!

[ggm1960]

There are no new frontiers, have to wait for colonization of Mars.

[sventvkg]

You people are STUCK IN THE FALSE LEFT RIGHT PARADIGM. Questions:

 

IF the Dems and oBOMBa are doing it differently then Bush;

 

WHY ARE WE STILL IN 2 WARS?

WHY DID THE BAILOUTS EXPAND UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION?

WHY ARE OUR RIGHTS STILL BEING CURTAILED?

WHY DO THEY CONTINUE TO PASS BILL AND POLICIES THAT ARE OVERWHELMINGLY UNPOPULAR WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

 

I COULD go on and on but why the {censored} should I bother? You just don't get it, most of you.

 

What is different about this administrations policies and i'm warning you I will come back with article and after article dissecting why NOTHING HAS CHANGED proving my point, so be careful to foster an informed, intelligent discourse. I'm just sick of it. Some of you are Audio Guru's and media personalities but it's astonishing how little you know and want to accept about the REAL IMPORTANT issue of our country. We are so {censored}ed and it hasn't even hit yet.....DENIAL is the prevalent mindset I am witnessing here and out in the world.

 

Anyway, PLEASE Show me how oBomba is different, for the people, not going back on his campagn promises...Please show me that he IS CHANGE!!!

IF you can enlighten me I will shut up and bow down to him and the rest of the Government and know that they are in fact looking out for our well being!

[sventvkg]

Here's a good article:

 

IS OBAMA A FINANCIAL DUBYA?

[deanmass]

I am dipping a toe in on Abortion...

 

Our abortion problem is really a problem of: A lousy, expensive adoption system, and an overall lack of commitment to sex education and family planning. Some countries do this much better than others, but I think the US as a rule falls down on this issue over and over. And no matter what, making abortion illegal does exactly what it does to other hot topics, pushes it into the back room where we lose the mother AND the baby.