Interesting choice of words for an Obama article...

[blue2blue]

+10

 

The communication lag in BB communications makes for some interesting turns in the dialog.

 

I think we can probably mostly all agree that truth is revealed... and still agree to disagree (at least for the sake of argument ) on other, more difficult-to-pin-down issues.

 

 

(When I looked up from my previous post and saw you agreeing on that point and here I was smacking you -- or trying --on the other, I thought, man, I seem mean... )

 

 

Now I'm headed over to the Recording Forum where I can argue about which preamp will give me the warmest, fattest tones...

[BlueStrat]

 

You always write with the moral and intellectual certitude of someone positive that he has all the answers and a lock on the truth.

 

 

As do you. It's called having the conviction your beliefs.

 

Who do I think should "run the show"? You're assuming that it's a show that should be run. Much of what they're trying to run has no business being run by government. Government has created a lot of this mess and encouraged much of what it didn't create. The market would sort a lot of this out if we weren't bent on propping up failures and rewarding fiscal incompetence and malfeasance with tax payer dollars. And if government was not so involved with the making distributing and selling of virtually every product on the planet. How did we ever get to the point that we are to quietly and unquestionably accept the idea that 535 mostly lawyers in Congress plus an army of bureaucrats are somehow now experts in every business in our economic system and that they are qualified to dictate how they should be run and by whom for what salary?

 

I think Mark Steyn pretty much nailed it with this:

 

 

Let it be said that in recent years in America, the United Kingdom, and certain other countries the

[BlueStrat]

The communication lag in BB communications makes for some interesting turns in the dialog. I think we can probably mostly all agree that truth is revealed ... and still agree to disagree (at least for the sake of argument ) on other, more difficult-to-pin-down issues. (When I looked up from my previous post and saw you agreeing on that point and here I was smacking you -- or trying --on the other, I thought, man, I seem mean... ) Now I'm headed over to the Recording Forum where I can argue about which preamp will give me the warmest, fattest tones...

 

 

We disagree on a lot but you're one of the left leaning guys here I respect. Along with Jo and a few others. Not that that probably means much !

[the stranger]

It isn't a Republican vs Democrat nor right vs left issue for me. It's free market (which we have not had for a very long time) vs increased government meddling in every aspect of our lives. I blame Republicans even more than I do dems-at least you expect dems to be big government spenders.

Republicans sold out their constituents for political gain.

As did the democrats to their constituents.

Which is why I can't support the two party puppet show.

Congress signed into law The Patriot Act without even reading it. Both parties.

And the majority of our laws are written by corporations and lobbies. And I would assume the majority of it didn't get read, either. Until after the fact, which is always the case.

The puppets are selling the laws and services of government to the highest bidder.

You have no actual representation. And you are being systematically stripped of your rights.

So, it defintely not a left/vs right thing. People with common sense don't get forced into these false paradigms. And the common sense lies somewhere in the middle.

If we had good government, it would be a moderate one. A perfect balance of left vs right, instead of the be all, end all approach we see from the real extremists. And be it known that the majority of your leaders are extremists.

People like me are not the extremists.

I go in the political forum and I'm like some anomaly because I subscribe to common sense.

It doesn't matter what I say, I get attacked from one side or the other trying to paint me as a partisan. It's like bizarro world or something. And a partisan is the first one who'll label you as one. Go figure.

I'm either a Bush loving apologist, or I'm a pinko commie bent on liberal agendas. And when they can't fit me in one of those, then they use the "Pay him no mind, he's one of the tin foil guys."

So, anyway it's still slavery and fascism on the rise and people are more entertained by the puppet show than actual change.

[blue2blue]

We disagree on a lot but you're one of the left leaning guys here I respect. Along with Jo and a few others. Not that that probably means much !

 

On the moral certitude thing (referring to your previous post and me), I was thinking the same thing myself. And we both apparently play blue strats.

 

 

There are probably a lot of folks who would be amazed to hear me called left-leaning. I have a reputation among many of the folks I know as being quite stodgy and conservative. Many were amazed that I switched party allegiance after sticking with the GOP for so long -- but when I hadn't voted for a single Republican at the national level in almost a decade, I figured, WTH. I suppose it would be far more intellectually honest of me to register indie -- but then I'd be throwing away my vote in the primaries, as they say. (In Cali, the Dems now let indies vote in their primary but the Republicans do not. And while the are a huge number of utter bozos in the Cali GOP -- especially from inland/farming districts -- there are a few state politics Republicans worthy of respect. Er... but I currently can't vote for them anyway. Hmmm... well, the GOP got my headcount money for all those years, I guess it's only fair the Dems should, too.)

 

No... I see myself as pretty much smack-ass in the middle. Or at least smack-ass in the middle of the people -- there doesn't actually seem to be a party under me here in the middle... though there are moderate pols from both parties who I respect.

 

 

With regard to our divergence from free-market principles and the continual tax-law tinkering that fostered the shift of wealth-turnover into the paper-economy of the investment sector, I suspect we agree on the root causes much more than we agree on short term solutions. I suspect your short-term solution is basically the kill-or-cure (or is that killer cure? ) of a long term solution now, in the form of a dismantling of all market-tinkering and tax law inducements to investment, savings, or other behaviors.

 

It's a breathtaking prospect but one which would almost certainly ensure a deep and prolonged economic convulsion greater than this country has ever seen before.

 

Aside from that, it has a lot of curb appeal.

[amplayer]

But if one really looks at the facts of those cases, one will see that in the overwhelming number of cases, they are conspiracies not by some secret army or priesthood of plotters who put aside their own parochial interests in order to further some great world-encompassing consipracy -- but, rather, normal humans motivated to do sleazy, disreputable, shortsighted, or criminally selfish acts by greed, hatred, expedience, and/or fear. One needn't invent overarching conspiracies in order to explain patently predictable human behavior.

 

 

+1 Very well stated!

[Jotown]

It started long before Bush. He just kept trying to put the fire out by pouring more kerosene on it. Of course since the dems took congress in '06 they didn't do much to try to stop it, either.

It did start long before Bush. But the repeal of the The Glass-Steagall act and Paulson's push to change the Net Capital rule that allowed these idiots to leverage at 35 and 40 to 1, are clearly what caused the crash and bank meltdown. Those fall on the Republican Senators and Bush directly.

[Gus Lozada]

I was born into a world of war, chaos, death, and fear. I did not create this world, but I love trying to destroy it's corrupt institutions. You are a slave. War is slavery. Corporate fascism is slavery. Corporate engineered evolution of society is slavery. I'm helping create the truth, not perpetuate some utopian sell out scheme. Truth is my intention.

 

[the stranger]

[amplayer]

The Obama administration cares most about control, and doesn't care what the financial cost is.
Look Here

Maybe the Bush admin would also have not wanted the TARP money back, but there is no denying that the Obama administration wants ultimate control of the financial system.

[deanmass]

O

M

F

G

Please...make .....it....stop.....

[Jotown]

The Obama administration cares most about control, and doesn't care what the financial cost is. Look Here Maybe the Bush admin would also have not wanted the TARP money back, but there is no denying that the Obama administration wants ultimate control of the financial system.

Yes. Because they have to control the bleeding from the gaping wound that BushCo left in the economy, the banks, the deficit, the trust people have in government, the moral compass that used to exist, etc....

So yes he wants and needs control. How else do you get a handle on something that was spun out of control by the previous administration?

[Phait]

Huh Gordon Brown's NWO http://snardfarker.ning.com/video/g20-conspiracy-theorist-gordon

[blue2blue]

 

The Obama administration cares most about control, and doesn't care what the financial cost is. Look Here Maybe the Bush admin would also have not wanted the TARP money back, but there is no denying that the Obama administration wants ultimate control of the financial system.

 

 

I don't think the aim is so much control as stabilization in the face of impending collapse.

 

You're complaining about which way the deck chairs are facing on the Titanic, mate.

[amplayer]

Yes. Because they have to control the bleeding from the gaping wound that BushCo left in the economy, the banks, the deficit, the trust people have in government, the moral compass that used to exist, etc.... So yes he wants and needs control. How else do you get a handle on something that was spun out of control by the previous administration?

The really sad thing is, I think you really believe this argument. What Obama/Pelosi/Reid are doing makes the Bush administration actually look conservative! Are you so in love with all your social spending programs that you simply don't care that they are bankrupting the country? This new administration has spent more in 2 months than the Bush administration did in 8 years!
Didn't you read the article? This administration doesn't even want solvent banks to give the money back!

You can blame Bush for the war in Iraq and for spending way too much. But you can't even compare the spending the Bush administration did to what the Obama/Pelosi/Reid juggernaut is shoving down our throats.

[amplayer]

I don't think the aim is so much control as stabilization in the face of impending collapse. You're complaining about which way the deck chairs are facing on the Titanic, mate.

 

 

You are wrong there and I'm surprised you're buying into this lie.

 

If stabilization was really all they wanted, then they would encourage solvent banks to give the money back or not to take it at all. They are doing just the opposite! The Obama/Pelosi/Reid administration wants total control.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

My spirit is free, but my body is not.

 

 

We are not interested in enslaving your spirit too. We grant you a little freedom of thought as long you consume our products and pay the bills.

[Jotown]

The really sad thing is, I think you really believe this argument. What Obama/Pelosi/Reid are doing makes the Bush administration actually look conservative!

Wow dude. You really need to shut off the computer and go for a walk. A long walk. Bushco created this mess. The new guy is trying to fix it. It is a mess that may not be fixable. The real bank collapse hasn't even happened yet. You are so caught up in your ideological paranoia that you can't eve get that.

 

Bush, Reagan and supply side economics have ruined the manufacturing base, and now the banking system. It has taken 30 years for the falacy of conservative fiscal policy to just about destroy America. Give the other side a chance and lets hope that they can start to fix this mess. It should only take another 30 years or so.

 

I am very happy that you are not the guy in charge.

[sventvkg]

Wow dude. You really need to shut off the computer and go for a walk. A long walk. Bushco created this mess. The new guy is trying to fix it. It is a mess that may not be fixable. The real bank collapse hasn't even happened yet. You are so caught up in your ideological paranoia that you can't eve get that. Bush, Reagan and supply side economics have ruined the manufacturing base, and now the banking system. It has taken 30 years for the falacy of conservative fiscal policy to just about destroy America. Give the other side a chance and lets hope that they can start to fix this mess. It should only take another 30 years or so. I am very happy that you are not the guy in charge.

 

 

LOLOLOL...Jo...This Guy is making it worse. Making the Deficit worse, propagating the wars, giving the banking elite everything it wants, creating tighter Government Fascist control over aspects of industry. Obama is just another cog in the wheel completely controlled and run by the same CRF Bilderberg, David Rockerfeller, Kissenger and associates, Old Anglo-European, Rothschild run and controlled machine. He is their man or he would not be President and breathing. Come on man. Take the Blinders off. It's Hilarious! LOLOLOL

[Ernest Buckley]

Stranger, what do you propose we all do? I`m curious.

Days after Obama won the electoral vote, I get an email from a friend of mine who is clearly republican. In her email which she forwarded to me from someone else, she concludes that something MUST be done. I emailed her back and said to her, we just voted for this guy Obama. Hes not even president yet and your ready to chop off heads. Seriously, what do you want to do?

Stranger, I ask you the same question. btw- she never responded back but I think you will.

Put Ron Paul in the WH, the same issues will exist.

[Jotown]

LOLOLOL...Jo...This Guy is making it worse. Making the Deficit worse, propagating the wars, giving the banking elite everything it wants, creating tighter Government Fascist control over aspects of industry. Obama is just another cog in the wheel completely controlled and run by the same CRF Bilderberg, David Rockerfeller, Kissenger and associates, Old Anglo-European, Rothschild run and controlled machine. He is their man or he would not be President and breathing. Come on man. Take the Blinders off. It's Hilarious! LOLOLOL

I say the same thing to both of you; what is your plan? What would you do to fix the banking system? How would you begin to clean up the amazing mess that the previous administration has left us with?

[Ernest Buckley]

Hey JoTown, I`m with you on this. I think the world needs a guy like Obama for all the change. Its interesting that you mentioned the age of Aquarius. I know a lot of people have no clue what you`re talking about but I do believe its already started. The fact that we have an African American president is proof. As for solutions... I believe in regulation. Call me a socialist...

 

I think the govt. needs to take some major cuts into private industry and clear the channels. Transparency seems to be the buzz word of late... I`m all for getting all this {censored} out into the open and starting over.

 

I also don`t agree with the bailouts... let the banks go bankrupt. The pendulum swung so far right, its swinging back... this is change... The greed of the last 25 years is catching up! I`m a Realtor here in NYC, you could see the disaster coming 3 years ago when people who had absolutely no money were being given mortgages for $400,000 and more. People were getting 106% financing because they didn`t have $$$ to close on the house. That right there was proof that you cannot afford a home!

 

GREED... The New King.

 

I can get into the spiritual change that is needed but I won`t... don`t want to bore anyone.

[the stranger]

Give me a bit and I'll take the time to reply without rushing it. (Busy at the moment.)

[spokenward]

The Obama administration cares most about control, and doesn't care what the financial cost is. Look Here Maybe the Bush admin would also have not wanted the TARP money back, but there is no denying that the Obama administration wants ultimate control of the financial system.

 

 

The time line is wrong here. But facts really aren't encumbering this thread much.

 

The capital injections started under Paulson. It was only after the October 13 meeting with Paulson that banks were required to issue preferred shares. That was a result of pressure that came about because people pointed out that Berkshire Hathaway got preferred stock and 10% with their investment in Goldman Sachs and GE.

 

Bloomberg frequently updated this story - I recommend you follow the crumbs back from there - not the Wall Street Journal. There is a lot of stink on this, but it started with the crisis. That crisis was last year.

 

At this point, the purpose is to force a return for the benefit of the taxpayers. The value of that return goes up when the market recovers, not while it is still distressed. The reason that the bank mouthpieces are out yakking about "giving the money back" is to confuse people who haven't been paying attention.

[Jotown]

The time line is wrong here. But facts really aren't encumbering this thread much. The capital injections started under Paulson. It was only after the October 13 meeting with Paulson that banks were required to issue preferred shares. That was a result of pressure that came about because people pointed out that Berkshire Hathaway got preferred stock and 10% with their investment in Goldman Sachs and GE. Bloomberg frequently updated this story - I recommend you follow the crumbs back from there - not the Wall Street Journal. There is a lot of stink on this, but it started with the crisis. That crisis was last year. At this point, the purpose is to force a return for the benefit of the taxpayers. The value of that return goes up when the market recovers, not while it is still distressed. The reason that the bank mouthpieces are out yakking about "giving the money back" is to confuse people who haven't been paying attention.

Now why are you attempting to confuse these people with the truth!

Don't you know that they can't handle the truth!

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]