Interesting choice of words for an Obama article...

[Ernest Buckley]

Give me a bit and I'll take the time to reply without rushing it. (Busy at the moment.)

Take your time my friend. I`m open to ideas.

[the stranger]

The first thing people need to do collectively is assess the direction we are going as a society.

 

In my opinion, a whole bunch of our lives is plastic {censored} from China. What does preserving and making all these attepmts to save the system accomplish?

 

Where does it lead? Where are we going?

 

The life of blind consumerism paraded as progress only leads to profit for those in charge.

 

I think people need to get back to community living. Family farms, locally produced goods and services.

 

The whole system collapse scenario is nothing more than fear propaganda.

 

Let the system crash, it needs to. Why would you want to preserve this level of inflation, anyway?

 

Communities can survive just fine without all this concentration of power dressed up as solutions.

 

More government always equals more bull{censored}. How much more history and evidence do you need?

 

Let it all crash and we'll start over at the community level, like when we built this country.

 

In addition, if you take into account the damage our lifestyle is doing to the ecosystem, the gross exploitation of natural resources, and general disregard for life in general, why wouldn't you question the system?

 

The system results in people snapping and shooting as many people as they can. And the more time that goes on, the more it produces.

 

And screw these banker guys. Talk about a ripoff.

 

The American people are being literally robbed in plain view and just sit there and do nothing. A big fat WTF? on that one.

 

Increase the number of representatives to reflect current population levels.

 

Eliminate secrecy in government. All secrecy. No true democratic or representative government exists if it operates out of view of the constituency.

 

And anybody who thinks the CIA is giving us some security needs a history lesson.

 

And people should be very concerned about their civil liberties.

 

The concentration of power at the executive level by the previous administration is going unchecked, almost completely.

 

Again, we are getting ripped off.

 

Take to the streets in a peaceful manner and start demanding justice from our leaders.

 

It's way past time they do the free market a favor and start busting up all these super massive monopolies, that also just happen to be controlling every aspect of our lives from food production all the way to the raising our children.

 

To put it mildly, the feds are full on evil. Yep, they are straight possessed by the devil and we needed an exorcism like 30 years ago.

 

And they will concentrate power until they have it all. It's what they do best.

 

The government is the biggest monopoly of all. And the merger of the corporations and the state resulting in the fascist state we see now is further proof of this fact. The government and the corporate sector became one years ago. And it doesn't matter who took over who, the end result is the same.

 

People are just in denial. They don't want to admit that they have been sold into a corrupt system since birth and it will challenge their entire belief system to the core if they question it.

 

Fear of the truth fuels their denial.

 

Like the banking thing. Trillions in future debt to bail out this pyramid scheme that wouldn't crash {censored}, but would leave a bunch of people broke, who should have been participating in this corrupt system to begin with.

 

And how about the war on terror?

 

War is the terror.

 

We'll make sure and militarize the whole planet to ensure massive destruction and killing in order to save the world from war and terror!

 

Again, wtf?

 

Vietnam all over again and people don't do {censored}. Why? Because the the national guard shoots people for {censored} like that.

 

Today, they just tear gas entire crowds of peacefully assembling people to quell dissent. That combined with the corporate media are highly effective.

 

A man performs self immolation to protest the war and it doesn't even hit the news.

 

Or they may send their black hat CIA funded "anarchists" in to start a riot with the police to make the scene look real menacing from the right angle for the news cameras. And if a few people get trampled or beaten, or sodomized in a police precinct with police baton, or shot in the back of the head with wooden bullets and the police chief and the rest of them are laughing about it, it's all in the name of national security.

 

If they take the dissent and put it in a "free speech zone", miles away from the event, that helps, too.

 

Let's see...the police were giving Iraq veterans a beating outside the McCain/Obama debates and they stayed inside and did nothing while our veterans were brutalized.

 

It's easy to sit and list one thing after another that's wrong, but people still try to find ways to justify the system or excuse obvious injustice.

 

Plenty of people have good ideas and good solutions. I have a bunch. But, is the system going to listen? That's the real question here, and I contend that no the system is not going to listen. They haven't listened to us so far, why would they start now?

 

Good example: Hillary Clinton was talking about health care in what, '96?

The rest of the leaders acknowledged that there was problems and here it is, 13 years later and the government ain't done {censored}. Just seemingly helped make it worse!

 

Social security, medicare, and all the rest...the just talk and then proceed to sell us out.

 

It's my opinion that we have a rogue government. The federal government is way out of control. The executive branch is out in another dimension.

 

Anybody with a calculator could figure out that the current "fixing" is a complete oddity violating every sound financial principle and probably a few laws of physics.

 

The only real solution is for people to start taking responsibility and do something.

 

Or drone in an eternal cell of fascist consumerism with no purpose or meaning, other than consumption for profit.

 

Your whole life is a piece of plastic {censored} from China. Some poor Chinaman worked for .18 a day to make those toys you bought your kids for $15.

 

And you stopped at KFC and contributed to some inhumane chicken exploitation after you stopped at the corporate supermarket and helped Monsanto poison us all.

 

And the ruling class got richer, you got poorer, and where are we going with all this?

 

Globalism. The ultimate monopoly.

[the stranger]

I have more thoughts, but will save them until I'm had my meds.

 

Probably something about massive labor strikes and boycotts, tax resistance to protest the war, indicting a large number of elected and corporate officials on treason and war crimes, etc....

 

Lots of herb and free love type {censored}. None of this let's destroy the human race with our evil empires {censored}. The good {censored}. Not the bad {censored}.

 

Dig?

[Ernest Buckley]

I have more thoughts, but will save them until I'm had my meds. Probably something about massive labor strikes and boycotts, tax resistance to protest the war, indicting a large number of elected and corporate officials on treason and war crimes, etc.... Lots of herb and free love type {censored}. None of this let's destroy the human race with our evil empires {censored}. The good {censored}. Not the bad {censored}. Dig?

 

I hear you loud and clear. It seems to me from what you`re saying and from my own observations, greed is at the center but at the source of this greed is a deeper ethical/spiritual issue which if addressed would resolve most of the worlds ills. That issue being the idea that we are separate and need to beat the competition in order to survive. The entire world is set up and subconsciously locked into this train of thought. The only problem is if one is beating another, then someone is suffering. In a nutshell, this is the worlds problem. Now, if I may, I`ll expand a bit...

 

IMHO, a capitalist society is destined to fall because it thrives on competition instead of co-operation. Unless the government butts in and regulates the private sector, this country will simply seize to exist in the global market, making us obsolete and making the 1929 Depression look like the good `ol days! Call me a socialist but I think that in order for this country to get back on its feet, we need to adopt more socialist behavior. So in order to just survive, we need to take a more co-operative attitude with each other as Americans so for a few years I suggest we let the world turn by itself and focus on ourselves! Obviously we will still remain interested in the global matters but the focus will be on the domestic affairs.

 

For starters, I propose the following steps for immediate improvements...

 

1. Stop importing cars for the next 15 years. Americans will drive American made cars built by Americans. This will give the auto industry the immediate shot in the arm they need to not only survive but thrive. (We should also decrease the amount of importing we do with other materials but we should do this in small increments over the course of the next 15 years and adjust as necessary so that our economy is providing the bulk of materials we need and not China.)

 

2. Invest half of that 700 billion dollars in building nuclear facilities and in other alternative energies that will decrease our need for foreign oil in years to come. The government should push for legislature that all motor vehicles built after 2015 will be hybrids with the eventual goal being, gas free vehicles that run on alternative "fuels" by 2030. This will provide thousands of jobs throughout the country NOW and address the energy issues we are facing, and to an extent; global warming.

 

3. Invest the other half in infrastructure: roads, bridges, state and city buildings, schools, hospitals. Again, this will provide thousands of jobs immediately country wide and we are investing in ourselves and our future.

 

To many this is the beginning stages of socialism and maybe thats what we need a little more of.

 

To use a metaphor... this country is hurting big time on many levels. We`ve been in a major car wreck that we somehow survived BUT we`re in the ER bleeding profusely. We need to stop the bleeding first (Government Regulation), then stabilize things (invest in domestic interests as mentioned above) before we get better.

 

As with any patient in a life threatening state, this country needs to focus more on itself than anything else. During WWII, this country came together and produced an incredible amount of material and Americans were flexible because they had to be to survive. The government also took the lead and united the people. I believe Obama has the ability to unite and to lead with a level head. You may disagree Stranger but I do not envy any President faced with these decisions.

 

I do agree with you that more emphasis on community is the answer. We need to somehow create a nationwide community and eventually a global one. How we get there remains to be seen but you have my ideas to get the nationwide community started. Peace.

[BlueStrat]

 

I recommend you follow the crumbs back from there - not the Wall Street Journal. There is a lot of stink on this, but it started with the crisis. That crisis was last year.

 

 

The crisis may have been last year but, it's creation was year in the making. When your roof falls in it's usually because the structure has rotted over many years, and while it may be accurate to say a record snowfall caused it to collapse, it would also be accurate to say that continuing to benefit from it while neglecting it's structural integrity made it an inevitable eventuality. Lots of folks, both conservative and liberal, have been predicting this collapse for years. The 'let's profit from it now and worry about it when it breaks' mentality isn't he sole property of any one party or ideology. They all had their fingers in the pie and they all wanted to scoop all the filling out of it they could while they could for as long as they could. And all the money being exchanged between government and private business is only going to ensure that it continues.

[spokenward]

And all the money being exchanged between government and private business is only going to ensure that it continues.

 

Essentially the banks were playing poker with the world's rent money. When they threw in their hand it turns out they weren't the solid citizens they pretended to be. The banks were insolvent.

 

But they were the banks. And the behavior that would have gotten them beat up in Atlantic City played differently because we needed them to drive the carpool on Tuesdays and Fridays. So we found a crummy way that we could look them in the eye and still get the kids to school. We all know that it needs to change, but I'm damned if I am rearranging my schedule until the end of the semester - know what I mean?

[Dessalines]

THE OBAMA DECEPTION-WATCH IT IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

 

 

I tried my damnedest to find those European states being run by their standing armies and I couldn't find a single one. However, i did discover that in this country, you can be shot by the police in your own drive way for driving your own car, (see the link below). Could this be why we don't need a standing army to control things like the Europeans don't?

 

PLEASE GET AN EDUCATION. Thanks.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/us/07texas.html?ref=us

[Dessalines]

I'm helping create the truth, not perpetuate some utopian sell out scheme. I was born into a world of war, chaos, death, and fear. I did not create this world, but I love trying to destroy it's corrupt institutions. You are a slave. Don't pay your taxes and see what happens. Own property? Sure you do. Uncle Sam gets a cut. Enough of one that if you don't pay up, your property is his. Try to refuse your ssn. Tell me how that one turns out. See if you can declare your self a sovereign entity. Try to move freely around the world without interference and possible incarceration by the state. For no crime other than a refusal to submit to the doctrines of the state(s) which infringe on my liberty, sovereignty, and freedom. It's estimated that 60% of your life's income will go to taxation. Layers of taxation pervade every aspect of production, distribution, and consumption. The U.S. is being turned into a third world country by it's own government and it's me that is creating an unjust world through my intentions? The only way this is correct is by the very truth that people accept the way things are and obviously have no desire for true change, or we would actually see some. People either just don't care, or they are too scared to admit they have a rogue government. And it's sure isn't my intentions to blame here. I'm just stating the facts. I am not in favor of the various US military action around the globe. My tax dollars fund the murder of innocent children. My tax dollars fund atrocities too numerous to list. I have no recourse in this matter. I am forced to unwillingly fund activities that are in violation of my personal ethics and morals. And if I refuse to pay my taxes in protest, I face criminal charges. I get to fund the murder of innocent children against my will. How is that my intention? This is not from my intention. My intention is exactly what you are reading here. Truth is my intention. War is slavery. Corporate fascism is slavery. Corporate engineered evolution of society is slavery.

You are entitled to your OPINION and your's are opinions, whereas the person you are insulting did present some actual facts. You are also entitled, "here in the best country in the world", to be mentally unbalanced and homeless and then to die a frozen death when winter comes. Now I'm not saying that this is your future, I'm only saying that it happens regularly and, funny, I see you here every day, for hours, posting with your friends who dominate this board, yuking it up and offering nothing substantive at all, beyond wild conspiracy stuff and off the charts political theories, so, tell me L'etranger, what is it exactly that you are doing to create this truth that is so important? Posting here? Seems like something Socrates would have rejected as frivolous but then you may be a cynic, in the non-Greek sense of that word. Strange indeed. :poke:

[BlueStrat]

PLEASE GET AN EDUCATION. Thanks.

Right, because we all no that no problems have ever been created by people with educations. You know, like MBA, Finance, Poli Sci and Law degrees.

 

 

[pink floyd cramer]

A conservative Republican administration has been in power for the last 2 terms, operating according to proper conservative principles, fiscal and otherwise. Democrats anticipated the current crisis and tried to take action. Their efforts to regulate and oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were blocked by Republican members of Congress, who (shortsightedly)were only concerned with being able to boast of increased home ownership.


Bush did so much damage that it will take liberal Democrats in power for the foreseeable future to set the economy on the right course. They will achieve this by adding additional trillions to the deficit and confiscating corporate executive's bonuses.

[Anderton]

 

 

What's weird to me is that this globe has been divided up based on a series of lines drawn by people who got to draw those lines because they beat the crap out of someone else. And that the areas bounded by those lines have their own currencies. This is supposed to make sense?

[Anderton]

As to Obama, conspiracies, one-worlders, and all that:

1. Ultimately, the people control their destinies if they are active in doing so. But, most delegate the hard tasks to others, then wonder why they don't get what they want.

2. I have no problems with societies, taxes, etc. With any group of people, there are some things that can only be accomplished by a group, not individuals. This is why we have companies to do things like, say, run Harmony Central. When you get to things like roads and infrastructure, that's a correspondingly bigger task that requires a correspondingly bigger group to pull it off.

3. Freedom is not anarchy. I don't mind the group telling me I need to observe speed limits in order not to present a hazard to others. I seriously mind the group telling me I need to help send Jews to gas chambers to create a pure Aryan race. It's the area between those extremes where all the contention arises.

Take abortion. If the group tells the individual abortion is not allowed, you run the risk of putting a child into the world who is at risk because the parent did not want the child or cannot afford it (or was too dense to use birth control). That child might grow up to be a neglected serial killer. If the group tells the individual abortion is allowed, you run the risk of not letting a child into the world who would have developed the cure for cancer.

Some will say abortion is murder based on religious beliefs, but there are also religions that believe a body does not become human until it aquires a soul, which can be a long time after conception.

The problem is this: this is not a digital world and there are not always yes/no answers. As a result there will always be sources of contention. Even a statement as innocuous as "People can do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others" doesn't take into account the law of unintended consequences.

What we really need more than anything else is tolerance. Again taking the abortion example, pro-abortion people really need to respect the deep beliefs of the anti-abortion crowd, and do everything possible to avoid being in a position where they believe an abortion is necessary. Conversely, the pro-life crowd needs to understand that at the very least, if pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or is the result of rape or incest, the decision to abort may be extremely difficult but ultimately, the person who would give birth should have the final say.

It's very simple:

1. Be excellent to each other.
2. Work, and work hard, to create the world you want to see created. Don't delegate that responsibility any more than you have to.

[the stranger]

What we really need more than anything else is tolerance.

I think we have a bit too much tolerance in our society. We tolerate too much bull{censored}.

[the stranger]

As to Obama, conspiracies, one-worlders, and all that: 1. Ultimately, the people control their destinies if they are active in doing so. But, most delegate the hard tasks to others, then wonder why they don't get what they want.

 

 

And this is the only thing that the theorists are trying to do is just educate people so they can make more informed decisions.

 

Take a listen to Jim Marrs. People say he's a tin foil type, but this man is as studied in world history as anybody I've listened to.

 

I don't have to subscribe to any theory, but I do keep an open mind and don't shut out information just because the majority throws some label on it.

 

I gather information and then make my own conclusions. From all sources, regardless of bias.

 

 

[the stranger]

You are entitled to your OPINION and your's are opinions, whereas the person you are insulting did present some actual facts. You are also entitled, "here in the best country in the world", to be mentally unbalanced and homeless and then to die a frozen death when winter comes. Now I'm not saying that this is your future, I'm only saying that it happens regularly and, funny, I see you here every day, for hours, posting with your friends who dominate this board, yuking it up and offering nothing substantive at all, beyond wild conspiracy stuff and off the charts political theories, so, tell me L'etranger, what is it exactly that you are doing to create this truth that is so important? Posting here? Seems like something Socrates would have rejected as frivolous but then you may be a cynic, in the non-Greek sense of that word. Strange indeed. :poke:

If you think it futile sharing information...the pen is mightier than the sword.

And I have offered plenty of substance. Which topic would you like me to offer a solution on? It would be hard to address all of them in this post.

Your post shows your bias to auto-reject information that you deem outside of consideration.

There's more to the system than meets the eye and if you do the research, you are going to end up coming to the same conclusion that a whole lot of other people are.

And how did that happen? Because of people like me sharing information on the net.

The truth is stranger than fiction. And our entire reality is a construct built on lies and fictions.

I'm tearing down these fictions. What are you doing?

[the stranger]

Just look at the growing list of people joining the 9/11 truth movement.

 

Degreed professionals from all fields have formed orgs to demand new investigations into 9/11.

 

These aren't some kids with nothing better to do, these are people who are professionals in their field and actually are putting their careers at risk by taking these open stands on such a sensitive issue.

 

Who would you rather trust, a growing list of pilots, architects, engineers, medical professionals, lawyers, firefighters, scholars, political leaders, religious leaders, and more...

 

...or some talking head on the news or a politician?

[the stranger]

[YOUTUBE]uBm9ZyIg3I0[/YOUTUBE]

[halljams]

Doin nice work here Stranger.

[the stranger]

I try. I don't really see it as work, though. I love sharing info. Great pastime.

 

Which makes me remember my last word on pretty much anything:

 

I don't try to tell anyone what to think, I just want them to think.

 

Craig nailed it, though. We get what we put in. And it's my contention that if we continue to ignore the crimes of government, we will continue to get crime for government.

[BlueStrat]

 

Their efforts to regulate and oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were blocked by Republican members of Congress, who (shortsightedly)were only concerned with being able to boast of increased home ownership.

Ummm...I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. It was Bush who pushed for more regulatIon of Freddie and Fannie and it was John McCains who wrote a letter signed by other Repubs in 2005 warning about the problems that were bound to happen. It was Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, and Chris Dodd who not only disregarded the warnings but said publicly that there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie and that both were fundamentally sound.

[YOUTUBE]_MGT_cSi7Rs[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not absolving Republicans for their role in this finacial mess. But as far as Freddie and Fannie go, democrats pretty much own that part of it.

 

I'm not looking to defend one party or another. I only think that we should be honest about who is at fault if we're ever going to fix it.

 

Like I said before, it isn't right vs left or Repub vs Dem for me. It's right vs wrong.

[pink floyd cramer]

nice spin, Mr. Repug-ni-con.

Bush = Pres for 8 years = economic crisis = definitive and unrefutable failure of conservative principles and free market and capitolism = Obama save us from our sins, any change = good change = please micro-manage every major US industry and saddle us with debt our grandkid's grandkids can't pay off. Multiple choice quiz tomorrow so take notes.

[the stranger]

[YOUTUBE]0pajKfN9VP8[/YOUTUBE]

[the stranger]

[YOUTUBE]UMIh4yucVUc[/YOUTUBE]

[the stranger]

nice spin, Mr. Repug-ni-con. Bush = Pres for 8 years = economic crisis = definitive and unrefutable failure of conservative principles and free market and capitolism = Obama save us from our sins, any change = good change = please micro-manage every major US industry and saddle us with debt our grandkid's grandkids can't pay off. Multiple choice quiz tomorrow so take notes.

Talk about spin. I've found BlueStart to be quite balanced in his opinions and would not consider him a "repug-ni-con".

If you can step out of the partisanship that you seem engaged in, you will find most people are a typical balance of progressive and moderate.

In reality, the left and the right are a construct that people buy into when they vote.

Stop rooting for parties and agendas and start focusing on issues.

[BlueStrat]

nice spin, Mr. Repug-ni-con. Bush = Pres for 8 years = economic crisis = definitive and unrefutable failure of conservative principles and free market and capitolism = Obama save us from our sins, any change = good change = please micro-manage every major US industry and saddle us with debt our grandkid's grandkids can't pay off. Multiple choice quiz tomorrow so take notes.

 

Ignoring your childish name calling, explain how it is spin to let the guys who helped create this mess speak for themselves? They plainly have said that no problem existed when clearly it did. Now these are the same people in charge of fixing it. Does that not cause you concern? Do you not see how both parties have hijacked our economic system and led it to ruin? Do you not see that blaming one party over another is only perpetuating the problem? Even Bill Clinton blamed Democrats for their part in this at the end of that video. And he's right. Conservatives are mad as hell at the Republican party and rightly so. Liberals ought to be equally outraged at the democrats.

 

Back in the 70s and early 80s I was a democrat until the democratic party left me. Then I became a republican until the republican party left me. Now I'm more conservative libertarian than anything else. The Republicans had a chance to balance the budget and rein in spending and they failed epically. And now the Democrats are using the 'financial crisis' to spend us into oblivion on things that have nothing to do with economic recovery. Republicans blame Democrats when they themselves failed to act when they had the chance, And now that the Dems are in control they're blaming Republicans when they themselves are now doing the same thing Republicans did only on steriods. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

 

Free market capitalism hasn't failed. The fact is we haven't had it since the 1930s when government started getting hopelessly entangled in the private sector, a development the founders never envisioned nor intended. Maybe if we tried a real free market it would work. But we'll never know the way we're headed. Another fact is that every capitalist economy goes in 60-80 year cycles of boom and bust. A free market would correct itself in a matter of months. Government intervention of bailing out and propping up failures at taxpayer expense only prolongs the pain, postpones the inevitable and takes more capital out of the market and converts it to debt.

 

But in any event, as long as we insist that this mess is a partisan affair and we keep blaming the other side as being the sole purveyors of this rot and defending ours as being paragons of virtue, we are all cooked. We're being sold down the river by both parties who are interested only in acquiring and maintaining power with the control of the public purse strings. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. We can't borrow our way out of debt and we can't spend our way to prosperity. That isn't a partisan idea. That's just fact, and both parties are ignoring it.