J.Backlund design announces new Korean made models!

[RaVenCAD]

A couple clarifications....

 

1 - This isn't spam. This is an announcement about a project that many people have followed for several years. I welcome news from Bruce and John, just like I know they would welcome news from anyone else here making it work.

 

2 - I still don't like the MIK thing, but I understand why it has to happen. Hopefully it'll help the MIA side of the business.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Korea I can get into. Not a fan of the quality coming out of China. I hear that rasmus is at a 50% acceptable rate for their line. I know the Chinese, can do better, but it seems they don't need to.

 

 

Frankly, I don't know that they can. Two weeks ago, my company brought my Chinese counterparts over for a visit and some design training. When I train people, I don't stop at just "how", but I try to give an in-depth explanation of "why" as well. Everything I covered with these guys was answered with "We don't need to know why, just tell us what you want and we make it like that." The goal of the training was to make them self sufficient, not have me/us do the designs for them. There is a reason most stuff you see out of China is a knockoff of something else.

[Elias Graves]

The baby grand bridge really makes those guitars. I'd take cheaper pickups (easily switched) for the better hardware.

[Virtual Pariah]

Frankly, I don't know that they can. Two weeks ago, my company brought my Chinese counterparts over for a visit and some design training. When I train people, I don't stop at just "how", but I try to give an in-depth explanation of "why" as well. Everything I covered with these guys was answered with "We don't need to know why, just tell us what you want and we make it like that." The goal of the training was to make them self sufficient, not have me/us do the designs for them. There is a reason most stuff you see out of China is a knockoff of something else.

 

 

I get what your saying there.

 

I had a similar situation in Bangalore bout 7 years ago. We shipped panels over to be painted and a good 3rd of the work had to come back to the US for re-work.

When we called them on it, the response was "But we are saving $.10 panel by using less paint and that's how were doing it."

 

We ended the contract and went to China for better work.

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

Rants at TGP? I can only imagine. If you guys are listening to the input, I am more interested in quality hardware than the pickups. I trust you'll choose wisely on the pickups. I imagine those who pledged for the hard-tail version of the guitar are expecting the baby grand bridge. If you guys committed to Hipshot trems (particularly the Contour model like the metallic blue sample shown on the Kickstart page), I am in like Flynn!

 

Hipshot makes high quality parts, putting them on the Retronix line would definitely separate them from the other MIK brands who typically use TonePros or Gotoh (not that there is anything wrong with those brands). For pups, I'd lean Duncan. They are familiar to the market so people see they are getting something quality, but if they don't like it, they would be easy to pull and sell. Dimarzio would work the same too, but I see them less often.

[soundcreation]

 

Hmm. As a general blanket statement, this may bear some thinking about. So I hire 2 American guitar builders to make a line of guitars. Dur to their costs, I have to price the guitar at 2k to start. At that price, I may sell 50 per year. That may require 1-2 people to ship and handle RMA tasks. Admittedly these are very well built guitars. Now, I go to Korea, for the price of those 2 builders, I may be able to get 2000 guitars made per year. I'm able to sell them at a cheaper rate. Due to the increased volume, I may have to hire 20 americans to handle the Setups, Shipping, Customer Service, RMA's etc. End of the day, the use of Korean production could create a net add of american employees. This isn't all black and white.

 

 

right....it's not all black and white....so why are you presenting it as such? Perhaps you should think a little more about the "costs". Because your argument is very simplistic as well. You aren't considering a whole bunch of other potential factors.

[billybilly]

If you guys really want to know what happens with outsourcing, importing, exporting and the like, contact Art Vandelay. Everything else is merely speculation.

[axegrinder]

If you guys really want to know what happens with outsourcing, importing, exporting and the like, contact Art Vandelay. Everything else is merely speculation.

Wait! An Aussie dropping a Seinfeld reference!?!? I had no idea that show would go over... down under. You must love this one...

[scolfax]

 

The baby grand bridge really makes those guitars. I'd take cheaper pickups (easily switched) for the better hardware.

 

 

Yeah, it's little things like this that make it tough to pull the trigger. I assumed that the hardtail version was just like the black one shown at the top of the kickstarter page, and the trem was just like the blue one further down. No pics/specs of the actual guitars makes it a bit of a leap of faith at this point. I'm not super-nitpicky, just want to know what I'm getting into. I'll wait patiently until the 16th for the actual info.

[Bruce Bennett]

sounds like more clarification is needed..

You guys are WAY ahead of us. this project was timed so that both Dealers and Public can view and get familar with the project idea PRIOR to the Summer NAMM.
so thats why we launched it the week before. We debated on when to make these forums posts and decided to do it July 5th perhaps we could have waited unitl July 16th. but its done now. we NEED the public to go to its local music store and tell them about it and tell them we will be at Summer NAMM and if they are going to Please stop by our booth.

if they are NOT going, They can still call us for details if they wish to become a dealer.this is why we needed the forums support we dont' expect the forums to buy all the guitars neccessary thats not realistic. we need the public to talk to their local Dealers about this
and of course if you have that kind of cash. you can obviously purchase a dealership through the project with not contracts or anything and sell them yourself for a profit.
we tried hard to make this an opportunity for anyone and everyone that was able to see the advantages.

now,
the prototypes your see on the video and on the project page, are just that. prototypes only to be sent to the korean manufacturer as sculpting examples.

obviously, We had to use some kind of hardware on them. so we used what we have in stock. (a no brainer really)

we have not reached any kind of deal with Hipshot other than for our American Made guitars, they are VERY expensive for a Korean made product and they also have a proprietary design not licensed for Korean manufacture... BUT anything is possible I'll know more after next weekend.

the Hipshot products will remain on the American Made J.Backlund Design guitars.

there are several hardware manufacturers that we will be talking with at SUMMER NAMM next weekend.
I will work with them to find the best hardware I can,

Yes, I'm not as worried about the pickups as I am the hardware. we all know that pickups are something that nearly everyone replaces.
but i am looking for pickups that sounds good both in full humbucker mode as well as split coil modes.

I will find the very best options available.

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

 

sounds like more clarification is needed.. You guys are WAY ahead of us. this project was timed so that both Dealers and Public can view and get familar with the project idea PRIOR to the Summer NAMM. so thats why we launched it the week before. We debated on when to make these forums posts and decided to do it July 5th perhaps we could have waited unitl July 16th. but its done now. we NEED the public to go to its local music store and tell them about it and tell them we will be at Summer NAMM and if they are going to Please stop by our booth. if they are NOT going, They can still call us for details if they wish to become a dealer.this is why we needed the forums support we dont' expect the forums to buy all the guitars neccessary thats not realistic. we need the public to talk to their local Dealers about this and of course if you have that kind of cash. you can obviously purchase a dealership through the project with not contracts or anything and sell them yourself for a profit. we tried hard to make this an opportunity for anyone and everyone that was able to see the advantages. now, the prototypes your see on the video and on the project page, are just that. prototypes only to be sent to the korean manufacturer as sculpting examples. obviously, We had to use some kind of hardware on them. so we used what we have in stock. (a no brainer really) we have not reached any kind of deal with Hipshot other than for our American Made guitars, they are VERY expensive for a Korean made product and they also have a proprietary design not licensed for Korean manufacture... BUT anything is possible I'll know more after next weekend. the Hipshot products will remain on the American Made J.Backlund Design guitars. there are several hardware manufacturers that we will be talking with at SUMMER NAMM next weekend. I will work with them to find the best hardware I can, Yes, I'm not as worried about the pickups as I am the hardware. we all know that pickups are something that nearly everyone replaces. but i am looking for pickups that sounds good both in full humbucker mode as well as split coil modes. I will find the very best options available.

 

 

This makes a lot of things clearer to me. You may want to consider a short disclaimer under the photos, or somewhere on the page that states that "Final specifications are not set, photos are for illustrative purposes only." or something. I'd hate for someone to get cranky at you if it doesn't exactly match the pictures on you Kickstarter page.

[Bruce Bennett]

This makes a lot of things clearer to me. You may want to consider a short disclaimer under the photos, or somewhere on the page that states that "Final specifications are not set, photos are for illustrative purposes only." or something. I'd hate for someone to get cranky at you if it doesn't exactly match the pictures on you Kickstarter page.

 

 

true, I'll have that done right away, excellent idea.

[megawzrd]

Sure a hipshot baby grand is a chunk of change out of $500 but isn't that the benifit of participating in a kickstarter? If these guitars are to retail at $1000-$1250, a hipshot baby grand doesn't seem out of line to me. $70-$90 on quick reference from ebay/stew mac (consumer/retail).

 

I for one am starting to get cold feet to pulling the trigger, specifically because that bridge flows with/accentuates the curvature of the body and the whole design style. Anything else would look out of place imo.

 

I could care less for all the other hardware and electronics. Tuners, pups, pots, knobs, screws are all secondary for me.

 

Either way if something else must be chosen for the bridge I would hope it would be the same post spacing and size so it could be easily swapped out. I would assume most would probably hope for that as well.

[spacequixote]

 

Sure a hipshot baby grand is a chunk of change out of $500 but isn't that the benifit of participating in a kickstarter? If these guitars are to retail at $1000-$1250, a hipshot baby grand doesn't seem out of line to me. $70-$90 on quick reference from ebay/stew mac (consumer/retail). I for one am starting to get cold feet to pulling the trigger, specifically because that bridge flows with/accentuates the curvature of the body and the whole design style. Anything else would look out of place imo. I could care less for all the other hardware and electronics. Tuners, pups, pots, knobs, screws are all secondary for me. Either way if something else must be chosen for the bridge I would hope it would be the same post spacing and size so it could be easily swapped out. I would assume most would probably hope for that as well.

 

 

I pulled the trigger for a hard tail (although it seems I can still back out by Sept 1st in the event the specs are not what I want), and that bridge was one of the things that set it apart with the overall design, and one of the few things that was consistent in the pictures shown so far. Would hate to see it go for a more conventional bridge. For that matter, Lace Alumitones would look stunning in that guitar, but there is no real cheap alternative to lace's pickups (too bad their "powered by Lace" offerings seem mostly useless), so I'll second the nice bridge/hardware over pickups sentiment.

 

Another idea would be to replace some of the pastel-like color offerings with metallic finishes (Lake Placid Blue, Candy Apple Red or similar), as others here have asked for. Will the guitars sold through kickstarter (or at least the early bird specials) be set apart from the rest somehow, even just by something symbolic like a signature or by serial number?

[Bruce Bennett]

I pulled the trigger for a hard tail (although it seems I can still back out by Sept 1st in the event the specs are not what I want), and that bridge was one of the things that set it apart with the overall design, and one of the few things that was consistent in the pictures shown so far. Would hate to see it go for a more conventional bridge. For that matter, Lace Alumitones would look stunning in that guitar, but there is no real cheap alternative to lace's pickups (too bad their "powered by Lace" offerings seem mostly useless), so I'll second the nice bridge/hardware over pickups sentiment. Another idea would be to replace some of the pastel-like color offerings with metallic finishes (Lake Placid Blue, Candy Apple Red or similar), as others here have asked for. Will the guitars sold through kickstarter (or at least the early bird specials) be set apart from the rest somehow, even just by something symbolic like a signature or by serial number?

 

To put it simply the alumitones are not perfected yet.

[ashtray]

Any plans to make an import version of your 400 guitar? LOVE that design!

 

Oh yes, and that bridge/tailpiece is wicked. I only skimmed through this thread - but that's a design selling point of the guitar.

 

Good luck with your project - hope you guys get the funding needed to get this thing to take off!

[Virtual Pariah]

right....it's not all black and white....so why are you presenting it as such? Perhaps you should think a little more about the "costs". Because your argument is very simplistic as well. You aren't considering a whole bunch of other potential factors.

 

 

Ok,

Enlighten me please. Seems like a good use of a discussion forum.

[Ancient Mariner]

I've been sharing this on other forums too. One of the guys (a GUS guitar and bass owner & user) commented:

 

"Looks interesting, although it's a pity that the chosen design is IMO one of his less inspired. It always saddens me that when a manufacturer goes mainstream it tends to be with a conservative design as though they were ignoring the fact that one of the things that has attracted musicians to their guitars in the first place is that they don't all look like everyone else's."

 

I'm assuming this is to keep manufacturing costs down, since something like the JBD100 or 400 would require more work, though likely be more appealing.

 

Thread here: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180950-does-anyone-want-a-j-backlund-guitar/

[pneumatic]

Reverends aren't made in china. These Backlunds seem interesting. However this Bruce Bennett seems like a real a$$hole, haha. History in the making? Yeah...

 

Edit by Frets99: Quite an inauspicious early post. Obviously unable to empathize with the excitement in another human being.

[riffy]

I don't know where the Reverends are made. I do know that Bruce is a SUPER nice guy.

[stratocaster202]

I remember when people on the forum were helping out with the rendering of these guitars, for some reason making the knobs look real sticks out in my mind. I'll see where my bank account is in August, and hopefully I'll be able to pledge. It's awesome seeing how far you guys have made it

[soundcreation]

 

Ok, Enlighten me please. Seems like a good use of a discussion forum.

 

 

Everything you guys have been talking about only comes from an American perspective. "What's the effect on US jobs?" "What's the effect on the US economy?" "Building in Korea will cost jobs for US workers" "No it won't...it will create jobs"...and on and on. All legitimate questions mind you....but completely ignoring the question of what's happening in the factories of Korea.

 

He said it's not the cort factory...which has a history of labor abuse. And that's a great thing. But has he investigated the factory that they did choose...to see if they are treating their workers fairly? Or did they just meet with some factory manager who said "yeah sure we can build you those guitars at that price...no problem"..."OK...deal"...? Not giving any thought to HOW this factory can provide guitars at such a price.

 

I think Korea is ethically a much better place to build guitars than China, or Indonesia....but the Cort incident just goes to show that there are obviously serious problems still in Korea's manufacturing industry. I don't think it's unfair to conclude that factories in Korea are probably all going to along the same lines. Putting workers on impossible quota systems, where pay is with held if they don't reach certain numbers. Low safety standards...etc...all the issues that came out with the cort incident. All these problems exist in a much much lower way by building in the US, or Canada, or Japan.

 

Did they even go to Korea and inspect the factory? Did they interview any workers at the factory privately away from management to find out if they are being treated fairly?

Do they even care? Do you even care?

 

I do. So that's why I'm critical of any company that uses countries with documented histories of worker abuse. And I think its TOTALLY appropriate to bring up in a thread like this. Fair is Fair. If he wants to use a forum like this to promote his product and drum up support from users, then I think he has an obligation to address the questions and criticisms that people may have. Or is harmony central just suppose to offer unconditional support no matter what anyone wants to do?

[John Backlund]

Never mind, edited.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Everything you guys have been talking about only comes from an American perspective. "What's the effect on US jobs?" "What's the effect on the US economy?" "Building in Korea will cost jobs for US workers" "No it won't...it will create jobs"...and on and on. All legitimate questions mind you....but completely ignoring the question of what's happening in the factories of Korea. He said it's not the cort factory...which has a history of labor abuse. And that's a great thing. But has he investigated the factory that they did choose...to see if they are treating their workers fairly? Or did they just meet with some factory manager who said "yeah sure we can build you those guitars at that price...no problem"..."OK...deal"...? Not giving any thought to HOW this factory can provide guitars at such a price. I think Korea is ethically a much better place to build guitars than China, or Indonesia....but the Cort incident just goes to show that there are obviously serious problems still in Korea's manufacturing industry. I don't think it's unfair to conclude that factories in Korea are probably all going to along the same lines. Putting workers on impossible quota systems, where pay is with held if they don't reach certain numbers. Low safety standards...etc...all the issues that came out with the cort incident. All these problems exist in a much much lower way by building in the US, or Canada, or Japan. Did they even go to Korea and inspect the factory? Did they interview any workers at the factory privately away from management to find out if they are being treated fairly? Do they even care? Do you even care? I do. So that's why I'm critical of any company that uses countries with documented histories of worker abuse. And I think its TOTALLY appropriate to bring up in a thread like this. Fair is Fair. If he wants to use a forum like this to promote his product and drum up support from users, then I think he has an obligation to address the questions and criticisms that people may have. Or is harmony central just suppose to offer unconditional support no matter what anyone wants to do?

 

 

A lot of very valid points. Bruce? John?

[John Backlund]

A lot of very valid points. Bruce? John?

 

 

Speaking only for myself...I'm SO sorry, I make $12.50 an hour with no benefits or insurance, no retirement, five payed vacation days per year working for the non-union company that currently employs me as a staff ilustrator. I can't afford to take the time off to fly to Korea in the immediate future to investigate the welfare of potential Korean guitar makers. I'm too busy trying to scrape by myself. Christ! I'm not Woody {censored}ing Guthrie.