J.Backlund design announces new Korean made models!

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Originally Posted by Bruce Bennett

It had better exceed a "Reverend" or I'll send them back. and thats a promise.

 

I really think it wold assist the JBD cause if maybe Bruce didn't badmouth other quite well respected brands?

I'm still unsure how these are a step above a Reverend

Maybe there should be a new adage, something akin to "Don't let the luthier do the PR"?

[John Backlund]

I think I need an Unknown Hinson sig Reverend.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Originally Posted by John Backlund

I think I need an Unknown Hinson sig Reverend.

 

Matter of fact John, I may even have heard you express your admiration for Reverend guitars before?

Maybe you could have words with Bruce?

[Frets99]

 

Originally Posted by soundcreation

wouldn't the more correct analogy be....

We are in the middle of having a BBQ when some other friends arrive trying to sell you some meat from their store?

 

Not really. You weren't having a barbecue.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Originally Posted by Frets99

Not really. You weren't having a barbecue.

 

[nicholai]

 

Originally Posted by Ratae Coritanorum

I really think it wold assist the JBD cause if maybe Bruce didn't badmouth other quite well respected brands?

I'm still unsure how these are a step above a Reverend

Maybe there should be a new adage, something akin to "Don't let the luthier do the PR"?

 

I usually agree with you but if he doesn't say he's better than someone why bother buying from him? Who would you prefer him to beat? Not all guitars are equal though many serve purpose while being crappy, but seriously. Should Bruce go, I'm better than everyone? I'd want to compare one Korean guitar to another or maybe something else of similar quality. Is he better than a squier? Fender custom? I haven't seen any but I doubt the budget will beat a hand built..... What's fair?? Bruce would know best and Reverands are just ok. I hope he is better for his sake. By hand I can't feel much different from Reverands or jay turser. I'm glad you guys like these guitars, but advertising is tough. They don't have the specs down 100% I'd bet he's seen a prototype from the factory and that's all he has to go on, quality of craftsmanship.

[Frets99]

As un humble as it may sound, I believe this whole thread could use a bit more humility, reverence and a nod to those who have gone before us. We are guitarists who love our instruments and I believe John is a visionary and Bruce is an artist who have already created a guitar line of true substance and originality in the vein of Jim Soloway and Joe Naylor. They are also creating an affordable subset of their creations to reach a greater mass with their creations in the same vein as Joe Naylor.

And all of these guys see fit to share right here in our little neck of the woods!

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Originally Posted by nicholai

I usually agree with you but if he doesn't say he's better than someone why bother buying from him?

 

Reputations and respect aren't earned from products not yet made.

There are plenty in this place who have seen the boasts of what will becoming from their Korean factores, many of whose work I admire greatly, (especially Peerless and Saein), and then to find that the percentiles don't always match the promises.

As yet, I've yet to hear a bad word about any Reverend guitars.....thats a pretty good achievement right there alone.

The time to boast is when you deliver

[nicholai]

 

Originally Posted by Ratae Coritanorum

Reputations and respect aren't earned from products not yet made.

There are plenty in this place who have seen the boasts of what will becoming from their Korean factores, many of whose work I admire greatly, (especially Peerless and Saein), and then to find that the percentiles don't always match the promises.

As yet, I've yet to hear a bad word about any Reverend guitars.....thats a pretty good achievement right there alone.

The time to boast is when you deliver

 

This post I agree with. Ya know the phrase give a man rope enough to hang himself, if Bruce can't deliver in his promises the line will fall flat. If he can't get buyers the line will fall flat. Rock and hard place. I'm hoping Bruce can back up his claims he would be in the best position to know what's up. If not I hope Johns designs don't get lost in the shuffle.

There's good advice in this thread. Could help any manufacturer.

[soundcreation]

 

Originally Posted by Frets99

Not really. You weren't having a barbecue.

 

So then it is just unconditional unquestioning support that is wanted......

criticism is technically allowed....but one shall be ostracized for it... got it.....

of course I understood that after about the first month of posting here.

Someone has to be "that voice" here....and if it's me...then so be it. As I said...the majority opinion does not intimidate me.

I'm sure under HC rules there are "legitimate" reasons for locking this thread on both sides....being spamming a product on one hand or some outwardly childish comments back on the other ....I just disagree with your position on this issue and don't think your analogy holds water.

Anyway....I really do respect your modding Frets, in spite of our difference in opinion.

[mistersully]

Originally Posted by Frets99

As un humble as it may sound, I believe this whole thread could use a bit more humility, reverence and a nod to those who have gone before us. We are guitarists who love our instruments and I believe John is a visionary and Bruce is an artist who have already created a guitar line of true substance and originality in the vein of Jim Soloway and Joe Naylor. They are also creating an affordable subset of their creations to reach a greater mass with their creations in the same vein as Joe Naylor.

And all of these guys see fit to share right here in our little neck of the woods!

i don't know if they're good guitars... i haven't played one... some cool designs though

but they're just guitars

i do know this though... if i was announcing to a forum that i was making a product overseas (i'm talking bruce here)... and someone asked about the conditions they were being made under... i would have just answered the question... even if that answer was "don't know, don't care"... i wouldn't have felt nobody should bring it up no matter how many people on the forum thought my product was the second coming and when they open the packaging a thousand angels would carry them off to planet bliss

i wish john all the success in the world

but people need to get a grip.... they're just guitars

[Frets99]

 

Originally Posted by soundcreation

So then it is just unconditional unquestioning support that is wanted......

criticism is technically allowed....but one shall be ostracized for it... got it.....

of course I understood that after about the first month of posting here.

Someone has to be "that voice" here....and if it's me...then so be it. As I said...the majority opinion does not intimidate me.

I'm sure under HC rules there are "legitimate" reasons for locking this thread on both sides....being spamming a product on one hand or some outwardly childish comments back on the other ....I just disagree with your position on this issue and don't think your analogy holds water.

Anyway....I really do respect your modding Frets, in spite of our difference in opinion.

 

See. That's the difference between an immature response and a mature one. (edit: Mind you, I am not saying that you are immature. That is my opinion of the response.)I don't know if these are great guitars. I don't know John or Bruce except through this forum. I just don't think they deserve the brunt of these world issues in their thread announcing guitars.

I appreciate your comments as well and consider them valid and would never edit or ban them.

Time and place.

[Frets99]

 

Originally Posted by mistersully

i don't know if they're good guitars... i haven't played one... some cool designs though

but they're just guitars

i do know this though... if i was announcing to a forum that i was making a product overseas (i'm talking bruce here)... and someone asked about the conditions they were being made under... i would have just answered the question... even if that answer was "don't know, don't care"... i wouldn't have felt nobody should bring it up no matter how many people on the forum thought my product was the second coming and when they open the packaging a thousand angels would carry them off to planet bliss

i wish john all the success in the world

but people need to get a grip.... they're just guitars

 

Agreed, but then we all know how you feel about the Albert Lee Musicman...

[Bruce Bennett]

 

Originally Posted by Joe Naylor

This is false. Our guitars are built in South Korea, and we have never had plans to make them in China.

 

Joe! Thanks for the correction!

there have been debates about this ever since some thread over at TGP showed up asking this question.

[Bruce Bennett]

 

Originally Posted by chase

Really? Which thread is this?

Reverends are made in Korea, not China.

This is from Ken Haas at Reverend:

You really should get your facts straight, Bruce. Spreading false information about another company's products in a thread promoting your own products doesn't look good. Korea has been making excellent quality guitars for years now, there's no need to talk down another company to try to make your own look better.

 

WHOA dude, I read a thread annd answered a question based on what I had read..

If there is one thing thats for sure.. The Internets if FULL of crap thats not fit to read or repeat.. but who have the time to verify EVERY SINGLE thing.

its My job to make sure nobody get MY companies information wrong..

Just like its was Joes job to step in and say something here. he did his job and I thanked him.

Don't make me out to be something I'm not Please.

 

Originally Posted by Ratae Coritanorum

I really think it wold assist the JBD cause if maybe Bruce didn't badmouth other quite well respected brands?

I'm still unsure how these are a step above a Reverend

Maybe there should be a new adage, something akin to "Don't let the luthier do the PR"?

 

I wasn't bad mouthing anyone... I've played Reverends, many times in fact. I'm not interested in owning one, but that doesn't mean I'm saying ANYTHING about their quality.

Someone else compared us to Reverend early in the thread.. so by me saying that I expect our new Retronix models to "exceed a Reverend or I'll send them back" is not a dig at Reverend at all.

its a statement to my own PERSONAL standards of Quality.

Reverend makes what they make and I make what I make.. apples to oranges. comparisons of the two are not realistic. they are both guitars and thats where the similarity ends.

[John Backlund]

As for guitars in general, I live in a comfy little world of ignorance. I'm a very mediocre player who more often than not, after an instrument's quality has reached a certain level, can't discern the subleties that make one guitar 'better' than another, at least as it concerns it's playability, whereas an accomplished player of course can, and has his/her preferences. I just pick the thing up, strum few cowboy chords on it, maybe fingerpick a bumbling version of Wildwood flower on it and say something like "This is pretty nice" without being able to say exactly why, technically. I own a couple of Sanatoga hollowbodies that didn't cost more than $150 but I love the damn things and would own them if for no other reason than they look great hanging on my wall, but they're also fun to play, at least at my level of playing.

My MIM telecaster hangs in an honored spot on my wall, I play it the most of all my guitars, and is the standard by which I judge all my other guitars when it comes down to playability and sound.....'this sounds muddy compared to my tele....how come I can't play this guitar as cleanly as I can my tele? that sort of thing. I'm a very casual player who simply cannot 'talk specs' and I'm really not all that interested in doing that anyway, too much like work..Bruce and others can sort out all that 'scale' and 'radius stuff', I'm simply out of my element there.

Artistically, I've been inspired by many other existing guitars, current and past. Some of my personal favorites (which should surprise no one) have been from Italia and Eastwood, DiPinto's Galaxy, Normandie's fabulous aluminum hollowbodies, Dean's Palomino in seafoam green and their outragious and wonderfull psychobilly 'Cabby', Dillion's clear acrylic Telecaster, (especially the older model with the matching clear headstock), and not to patronize, but if anyone thinks that I didn't long ago 'take note' of Reverend guitar's distinctive and attractive retro styling they would be mistaken. As a side note, their Rick Vito sig guitar has IMO, the

absolutely nicest headstock design of anything I've ever seen, it's a singular deco masterpiece and I would have killed to be able to claim I had created that. I almost can't see the rest of the guitar because I'm blinded by that wonderful headstock. Coming up with a decent headstock design has always been difficult for me, and this one just amazes me. But, you will have to take all this from a guy who can find pleasure playing a Jay Turser jazzbox, so what do I know?

[Bruce Bennett]

 

Originally Posted by Frets99

If I invite you to the wedding of my 17 year old daughter who is getting married because she is pregnant but who feels that the boy is the love of her life, please don't make a toast about abortion and how her life would ultimately have been better without the yoke of a child and a marriage that statistically is doomed to failure.

 

some of you may remember about my own daugther.. this very senario happened at her wedding.

so apparently, stupidity is just the new norm in America from now on...

[Frets99]

 

Originally Posted by Bruce Bennett

some of you may remember about my own daugther.. this very senario happened at her wedding.

so apparently, stupidity is just the new norm in America from now on...

 

Time and place...

[John Backlund]

I like cats.

[RaVenCAD]

Time and place, time and place. What is the correct time and place to educate yourself about how a company builds their product? I would think the thread where they're asking for public support of their Kickstarter project would be that place.

[scolfax]

 

Originally Posted by rog951

Count me as one - maybe the only one here - who isn't really in love with the looks of the piano-shaped bridge. It was the one thing I always thought looked sorta "tacked-onto" Backlund's designs. Kinda like "here's the funkiest-looking bridge I can find" but, to me anyway, it never quite meshed with the rest of the design.

 

I've never seen that bridge before, I thought it totally fit in with the design and had no idea it was an off-the-shelf component.

[Frets99]

 

Originally Posted by RaVenCAD

Time and place, time and place. What is the correct time and place to educate yourself about how a company builds their product? I would think the thread where they're asking for public support of their Kickstarter project would be that place.

 

I don't agree. For a more appropriate analogy, some entrepreneur friends invite you to a barbecue where they will be featuring meat from a new vendor they will be promoting and you make a stink about the meat industry in general seems inappropriate to me. The Westboro Baptist Church protesting military funerals because we allow gays in the military seems inappropriate to me.

I never said it was illegal and not your right. I just said, it felt inappropriate in this context.

[RaVenCAD]

How about a better analogy, one that actually happens in the business world. A couple inventors walk into a meeting, armed with a nice PowerPoint presentation, a prototype of the product and a dream. They make their sales pitch and then they field questions from the people with the money they want to use. One of those people might care about the possible problem of labor rights in the country the inventors are proposing to use. He or she has every right to ask about that without a bunch of half-educated, stary-eyed, ass kissers atacking them for it. Inventor #1 better be a lot more professional in his response than Bruce has been here, else he and his dream are done before they get started.

[Bruce Bennett]

 

Originally Posted by mistersully

i don't know if they're good guitars... i haven't played one... some cool designs though

but they're just guitars

i do know this though... if i was announcing to a forum that i was making a product overseas (i'm talking bruce here)... and someone asked about the conditions they were being made under... i would have just answered the question... even if that answer was "don't know, don't care"... i wouldn't have felt nobody should bring it up no matter how many people on the forum thought my product was the second coming and when they open the packaging a thousand angels would carry them off to planet bliss

i wish john all the success in the world

but people need to get a grip.... they're just guitars

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not following you .. I did answer that question. the factory Unsung is an independantly owned factory LIKE US. they do contract work for many American guitar companies. this is public record.

and I'm positive that they follow the laws of their land as much as Gibson follows ours? working conditions in ANY factory are always somewhat hazardous, loss of fingers or even life is just a part of the job. it would be like trying to save every soldier that goes to combat by reguating everything he does or wears or eats, its not doable. some WILL die some WILL be wounded.

so i don't understand all the fuss over a very successful korean factory that is following its own countries rules? if you are wanting to force them to follow OUR rules then your fighting a looseing battle.

if you go to Gibson and take a tour. you'll meet many people with missing fingers. Gibson even has a pay scale for fingers. they even have stupid workers that abuse that pay scale too. I witnessed that firsthand So, I honestly have no idea what all this hoopla is about. factories are subject to federal regs. Our shop included. we can't get involved with any factory that is not following its countries rules.

hopefull that puts and end to this nonsense about the korean factory

All that aside, one of the main reasons Mistersully doesn't "know our guitars are any good", is becasue there are not enough of them for him to play one.. we have only built less than 60 units total and we are a year backordered.

This project is our attemp at fixing that little problem. I know its never going to be enough to say that our guitars are good. everything has to be proven. which we have done to the best of our limited ability.

but, (fair warning: the a$$hole is about to speak.)

to be perfectly honest, I'm a bit tired of jumping through all the hoops everyone wants me to jump through. so let me spin this around on you.

I hear a lot of nice words about our guitars in these forums.. I've never seen 1 sale from any of them.

If I were to measure the support that is given to (as an example) say Joe Naylor and Reverend or (name your fav builder here) in these forums.

it can be clearly seen that we get precious little press time from the forum folks, even though we have done everything that all of these small builders have done.....except, for whatever inexplicable reason.. garner the publics interest.

I would HATE to think that this is because the designs were too radical.

because they are not as radical as some other designs that people are buying like hotcakes. and few new guitar designs out there, are just plain Butt UGLY and STILL SELLING!

I would rather think that people just plain hate me personally and won't buy because of me being part of the company.

well, thats EASY to solve. I'll gladly leave in order to give Johns designs a fair chance. hell I could USE a paycheck for a while. theres some guitars I'D LIKE TO BUY MYSELF!

but sadly, I'm beginging to believe that if i started building less expensive Les Paul copies tomorrow.. that we would suddenly find ourselves quite weathly.

I SINCERELY hope this is NOT the case.

because if you, the public, can look at a Les Paul copy, and determine that its a "good guitar" enough to buy it sight unseen just by the photo...

then I will never believe a single word from anyone in these forums ever again.

[ihavenofish]

 

Originally Posted by RaVenCAD

How about a better analogy, one that actually happens in the business world. A couple inventors walk into a meeting, armed with a nice PowerPoint presentation, a prototype of the product and a dream. They make their sales pitch and then they field questions from the people with the money they want to use. One of those people might care about the possible problem of labor rights in the country the inventors are proposing to use. He or she has every right to ask about that without a bunch of half-educated, stary-eyed, ass kissers atacking them for it. Inventor #1 better be a lot more professional in his response than Bruce has been here, else he and his dream are done before they get started.

 

if you werent also trying to do basically the same as bruce is in the near future (usa, korea or otherwise), with no intention of buying one of these guitars, id take you a bit more seriously. we also know from experience no matter what answer he gives, youll still be a twat.

bruce is a an overly defensive hothead and im first in line to hack him down when he needs it. this thread didnt need it.

chill out and talk about the guitars, even if its just cause we all like john.