Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 ^ Kudos for the bait and switch, Jason Robinson would be proud of that dodge I'm not the one providing the shuck and jive here, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 I can't disagree with anything you've said here. The biggest question however is why now? Why must this be addressed at this particular moment in history? The Armenian genocide happened nearly 100 years ago. What's the impetus behind the Dems urgency to do this now?The answer is as sinister as it is ugly. The Dems need the war in Iraq to be lost at any cost and they need it done before Bush's term is up. They have placed themselves in a position where the only way they can be right is if the USA loses. The Dems are between Iraq and a hard place. They can't simply defund the war because the voters would crucify them at the ballot box and they don't have the votes in congress to pull the troops. The surge is working, Iragi tribes have begun to band together to force Al Queda out and there are some in political circiles and the pentagon who are starting to use the word "victoy" and Iraq in the same sentence. The Dems can't have success breaking out all over Iraq. They need to sabatoge the war and they need to do it quick. That's all very interesting, but being as incredibly biased on the issue as I am (you try waking up every morning and seeing a huge Turkish flag carved out of a mountain on your way to work, or knowing you'll probably never see the land you've inherited that's valued at nearly 2 million Euro) I don't really care. What happens in Iraq is a far less personally affecting issue to me. I mean, it sucks, but this issue is something a lot closer to home for me. Too {censored}ing close, actually. I just want to see Turkey finally be held responsible for something they did. Hell, they could just do what Germany did ('Yeah sorry about that, it was the Nazi's idea though!') because it was not the modern Republic of Turkey which carried out the genocide, it was the Ottoman Empire. But they'll never admit it. I dunno, maybe things are getting better in Iraq. Now everyone's going to throw a bunch of links at me showing how the situation is improving, here are the numbers, fewer people are getting blown to bits etc. and another bunch of people will throw a bunch of links showing the opposite, people hate America there so whatever I'll just say I don't know. It was a mess, a disaster and a pointless tragic miscalculation that needn't have happened, that I know for sure. What the Democrats could possibly gain from an utter defeat in Iraq, I don't know. I seem to remember them voting in Congress for the war, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't blame the Republicans for the war. I blame the entire US government. GWB wouldn't have been able to go to war without the Dem's support. Will people so easily forget that if it turns to an utter mess? So that's why I'm not so convinced it's some sort of Dem conspiracy to make the Republicans look bad. As an outsider, it seems the Reps have done a good enough job of it themselves, approval ratings are through the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 So here, you're saying Turkey is guilty of genocide, but now in the next quote you dodge by saying . . . . . At which point I provided plenty of evidence of supposed human rights violations by other countries (as have other posters) at which point you state . . . . I'm not the one providing the shuck and jive here, bro. I'm guilty of underage drinking I'm not currently involved in underage drinking See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hey, I just fight fire with fire. well, more like I fight fire with Gasoline. Hey, I'm not saying you were wrong for what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 . . . .The Dems need the war in Iraq to be lost at any cost and they need it done before Bush's term is up. They have placed themselves in a position where the only way they can be right is if the USA loses. The Dems are between Iraq and a hard place. They can't simply defund the war because the voters would crucify them at the ballot box and they don't have the votes in congress to pull the troops. The surge is working, Iragi tribes have begun to band together to force Al Queda out and there are some in political circiles and the pentagon who are starting to use the word "victoy" and Iraq in the same sentence. The Dems can't have success breaking out all over Iraq. They need to sabatoge the war and they need to do it quick.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 I'm guilty of underage drinking I'm not currently involved in underage drinking See the difference? No. You were arguing I'm not currently involved in underage drinking, but I've found something else to be guilty of, since the first thing I said was effectively rebutted. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 You know what sucks? I remember a certain Presidential candidate utter the phrase, "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Blah.On the political front, this country is more divided than ever on just about everything... From the war to birth control. Most on either side will oppose the other side simply because they're expected to.Get out of these "liberal" and "conservative" shells and think for yourself. Christ, nothing is as black and white as the pundits portray them to be....and it's snowing in the mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 What the Democrats could possibly gain from an utter defeat in Iraq, I don't know. I seem to remember them voting in Congress for the war, correct me if I'm wrong.I don't blame the Republicans for the war. I blame the entire US government. GWB wouldn't have been able to go to war without the Dem's support. Will people so easily forget that if it turns to an utter mess?So that's why I'm not so convinced it's some sort of Dem conspiracy to make the Republicans look bad. As an outsider, it seems the Reps have done a good enough job of it themselves, approval ratings are through the floor. Wow, where to start. 1. Yes, people will forget. Or at least that's the hope of every Democrat who voted for the war, and a few Republicans as well. 2. The Democrats have been hoping and praying for a landslide of negative opinion (and have gotten it for the most part) over the war. Why? Because even though they voted for it too, it wasn't 'their guy' in the White House, so they can position themselves as being "duped" (even though all but junior Congressmen had access to the same info as the Prez), and then make it seem like they never voted that way at all. 3. Why? Because it's their only chance to get someone into the White House, or so they seem to think. The Democrats haven't had a cohesive thought, let alone plan, for decades...the party has been divided and divisive, and as a result they've sacrificed seats and offices. Only in this last election, following a huge negative reaction to the war, did the Republicans lose seats to Democrats, and there's only the slimmest majority now. They really need something more than "(Y)our War Sucks" to get themselves elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 My point is that, Turkey don't have the right to not be offended, and that for you to want to appease them because 'they might get a little bit upset' is the worst kind of PC pandering. And, as an aside, it makes your 'War on Islamic Terror' look really {censored}ing stupid when you're afraid to even acknowledge and recognise the genocide of 1.5 million people, committed by a country which happened to be...umm...oh what's the word for it...Islamic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 So that's why I'm not so convinced it's some sort of Dem conspiracy to make the Republicans look bad. As an outsider, it seems the Reps have done a good enough job of it themselves, approval ratings are through the floor.That's the perception. Of course what you don't read is that the congressional approval rating falls far below the president's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 You know what sucks? I remember a certain Presidential candidate utter the phrase, "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Blah. On the political front, this country is more divided than ever on just about everything... From the war to birth control. Most on either side will oppose the other side simply because they're expected to. Get out of these "liberal" and "conservative" shells and think for yourself. Christ, nothing is as black and white as the pundits portray them to be. ...and it's snowing in the mountains. True. But I don't think you can lay all that on him. there are plenty of people on both sides of the aisle that only want a fight.And the skiing should be good in about 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 That's the perception. Of course what you don't read is that the congressional approval rating falls far below the president's. Did I hear correctly last weekend? 11% ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hi.flyer Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Recognised how? I don't think anyone is really unaware of it are they? Reparations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 True. But I don't think you can lay all that on him. there are plenty of people on both sides of the aisle that only want a fight. And the skiing should be good in about 3 weeks. I think he's kinda laid it on himself in this case, and most of the country has done the opposite of unite since he took over. It does take two to fight though... That's for sure. Unless you're schizophrenic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 You know what sucks? I remember a certain Presidential candidate utter the phrase, "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Blah. On the political front, this country is more divided than ever on just about everything... From the war to birth control. Most on either side will oppose the other side simply because they're expected to. Get out of these "liberal" and "conservative" shells and think for yourself. Christ, nothing is as black and white as the pundits portray them to be. ...and it's snowing in the mountains. Amen to all that. And people are always looking for a fight.Except it's not snowing here As for the internal US stuff, hey I'm no expert on how it works. I'll voice my opinion but I'll never claim to be an authority on it. I'm just very skeptical of any party-wide conspiracies.And I think Congress deserves lower approval ratings than 11%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 You know what sucks? I remember a certain Presidential candidate utter the phrase, "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Blah. On the political front, this country is more divided than ever on just about everything... From the war to birth control. Most on either side will oppose the other side simply because they're expected to. Get out of these "liberal" and "conservative" shells and think for yourself. Christ, nothing is as black and white as the pundits portray them to be. ...and it's snowing in the mountains. Name liberals who have personally bashed Bush = loooong listName liberals that Bush has personally bashed.........Get out of these "liberal" and "conservative" shells and think for yourself. Nothing is as black and white as the pundits portray them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 Turkey may not be committing genocide now, but they have demonstrably done so in the past. No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Name liberals who have personally bashed Bush = loooong listName liberals that Bush has personally bashed......... Bush generally deserves it.I think if Bush bashed anyone, he'd be too stupid to defend himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Reparations. For some reason, I don't think you expect the Spanish to pay for the wars the Conquistadors raged across the Americas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hi.flyer Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 For some reason, I don't think you expect the Spanish to pay for the wars the Conquistadors raged across the Americas.Ahh, well, they interbred a bit. We basically just slayed everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 Ahh, well, they interbred a bit. We basically just slayed everyone. I guess there are bunch of slayed people running casinos these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcrow Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 That's exactly what he said? Just out of the blue? Liberals will do that, make crazy statements to rile up the conservatives out of thin air. sounds like anarchy..watch them bastards they ruined russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Ahh, well, they interbred a bit. We basically just slayed everyone. If a little mix-and-match is all it takes to forgive the slaughter of entire civilizations (Aztec, Inca, Pueblo, etc.) then no one is guilty of any crimes. Except maybe the French for, you know, getting along with American Indians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 For some reason, I don't think you expect the Spanish to pay for the wars the Conquistadors raged across the Americas. The Spanish don't refuse to acknowledge what happened though. They did kill their way across the Americas, like well.. every other colonial power did pretty much everywhere else. Turkey does refuse to acknowledge it. They say that the 1.5 million Armenians were killed in a civil war, which is a rather large load of crap. All that is asked for is an admission of wrongdoing. That's all. Nobody wants cash or land or anything. Just for them to say 'Yes, we did commit those crimes, and we apologise.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 My point is that, Turkey don't have the right to not be offended, and that for you to want to appease them because 'they might get a little bit upset' is the worst kind of PC pandering. And, as an aside, it makes your 'War on Islamic Terror' look really {censored}ing stupid when you're afraid to even acknowledge and recognise the genocide of 1.5 million people, committed by a country which happened to be...umm...oh what's the word for it...Islamic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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