Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 If we only allied ourselves with 'pure' minded nations we would be {censored}ing alone. You seemed to manage alright with that for about 150 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Did Hitler have a nice figure or did he figure how to do nice speeches? Which one is it? He did cut quite a dashing figure, especially with that sporty mustache. And the boots. Don't forget the boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 It has "precisely {censored}-all" with what you are arguing. What genocide is the Turkish government currently involved in and why on earth would they be committing atrocities for tea? Turks are famous for their coffee. Where have I said that Turkey are currently involved in genocide? They're probably not; but they still have an absolutely atrocious human rights records (which is is about the only thing keeping them from EU membership) Your earlier post referred to 'condemning the current South African government for actions of a completely different government'. No-one's talking about condemning the Turkish government, merely having the genocide recognised as such by the US government. If that upsets the Turks; well, I'm sure they'll get over it, and if not we can always send a little chap over to serenade them with the world's tiniest violin playing the world's saddest song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Where have I said that Turkey are currently involved in genocide? They're probably not; but they still have an absolutely atrocious human rights records So does {censored}ing China. So does most the world. Are you suggesting that every nasty ass thing that has happened throughout history be dredged up and re-examined? If so, watch out because the US has a lot 'splainin' to do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Read the NY Times article.Turkey is an ally and we need them and their support in the middleast. How many times have I read it here that our foreign policy is a disaster? Here we have a ridiculous resolution at a most inopportune time. Turkey has an abysmal human rights record and some very questionable practises (press freedom is a joke there, and Kurdish language and culture was outlawed until recently) as for having aspirations to join the EU, but refusing to officially recognise one of the member states... like, what? They always expect everything to go their way, and themselves to be exceptions to the rule. They're the spoiled brat of international politics. They get a little meaningless rap on the knuckles and start crying, while they have 35,000 troops stationed not 10km away from where I currently sit, propping up a puppet-state they created on MY inheritance. 'We might offend them' well big deal. It's time for them to grow up. If the US wants to be taken seriously as a protector of freedom and human rights, they'd better call their own allies on it too. Would you really want an ally who would react in a ridiculous manner over something symbolic? Most of the civilised world calls what happened ethnic clensing and genocide (let's see, 1.5 million people forced to leave their homes and die in the desert, I think that qualifies), they got all huffy and puffy about it for a while then shut up. That's what's going to happen now, they rely on US support an awful lot as well. Germany and Japan have gone through a long process of acknowledging and coming to terms with what they committed in WWII. So I don't see why Turkey shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 So does {censored}ing China. And since we are concetrating on the historical, so do those damm Brits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Turkey has an abysmal human rights record and some very questionable practises (press freedom is a joke there, and Kurdish language and culture was outlawed until recently) as for having aspirations to join the EU, but refusing to officially recognise one of the member states... like, what?They always expect everything to go their way, and themselves to be exceptions to the rule. They're the spoiled brat of international politics. They get a little meaningless rap on the knuckles and start crying, while they have 35,000 troops stationed not 10km away from where I currently sit, propping up a puppet-state they created on MY inheritance.'We might offend them' well big deal. It's time for them to grow up. If the US wants to be taken seriously as a protector of freedom and human rights, they'd better call their own allies on it too. Would you really want an ally who would react in a ridiculous manner over something symbolic? Most of the civilised world calls what happened ethnic clensing and genocide (let's see, 1.5 million people forced to leave their homes and die in the desert, I think that qualifies), they got all huffy and puffy about it for a while then shut up. That's what's going to happen now, they rely on US support an awful lot as well.Germany and Japan have gone through a long process of acknowledging and coming to terms with what they committed in WWII. So I don't see why Turkey shouldn't. + the {censored}ing one On this issue, they're as bad as David Irving and all his fellow holocaust-denying cranks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Where have I said that Turkey are currently involved in genocide? They're probably not; but they still have an absolutely atrocious human rights records (which is is about the only thing keeping them from EU membership) Some would say that we do too. Your point? As everyone has been trying to tell you, you have no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 And since we are concetrating on the historical, so do those damm Brits! Yeah, we do. Difference is, I'm not denying it, and I'm not getting all pissy over you saying it. See how this works? Like NeonVomit says, Turkey needs to grow the {censored} up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Yeah, we do. Difference is, I'm not denying it, and I'm not getting all pissy over you saying it. See how this works? Like NeonVomit says, Turkey needs to grow the {censored} up. And it's the US Democrat congress that needs to make them! ...or....there just might be a different agenda going here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Some would say that we do too. Your point? As everyone has been trying to tell you, you have no point. Sorry, have I been enigmatic and impenetrable? I apologise again, I was trying that out because I thought it might be more affable, but to avoid confusion I'll switch back to being condescending and arrogant. My point is that, Turkey don't have the right to not be offended, and that for you to want to appease them because 'they might get a little bit upset' is the worst kind of PC pandering. And, as an aside, it makes your 'War on Islamic Terror' look really {censored}ing stupid when you're afraid to even acknowledge and recognise the genocide of 1.5 million people, committed by a country which happened to be...umm...oh what's the word for it...Islamic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bikehorn Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Turkey has an abysmal human rights record and some very questionable practises (press freedom is a joke there, and Kurdish language and culture was outlawed until recently) as for having aspirations to join the EU, but refusing to officially recognise one of the member states... like, what?They always expect everything to go their way, and themselves to be exceptions to the rule. They're the spoiled brat of international politics. They get a little meaningless rap on the knuckles and start crying, while they have 35,000 troops stationed not 10km away from where I currently sit, propping up a puppet-state they created on MY inheritance.'We might offend them' well big deal. It's time for them to grow up. If the US wants to be taken seriously as a protector of freedom and human rights, they'd better call their own allies on it too. Would you really want an ally who would react in a ridiculous manner over something symbolic? Most of the civilised world calls what happened ethnic clensing and genocide (let's see, 1.5 million people forced to leave their homes and die in the desert, I think that qualifies), they got all huffy and puffy about it for a while then shut up. That's what's going to happen now, they rely on US support an awful lot as well.Germany and Japan have gone through a long process of acknowledging and coming to terms with what they committed in WWII. So I don't see why Turkey shouldn't. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted October 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2007 Where have I said that Turkey are currently involved in genocide? They're probably not; but they still have an absolutely atrocious human rights records (which is is about the only thing keeping them from EU membership)Since the resolution being discussed here involves Armenian genocide, it has everything to do with it. According to the rest of the world the US is committing human rights atrocities at Gitmo. The only atrocity I see here is the EU keeping Turkey out of the EU, when France has no problem keeping immigrant youth unemployed and making the system so harsh for them that they have to set fires to automobiles and demonstrate for days to bring attention to their plight and frustration at being treated as second class citizens. Based upon the reasons given that Turkey can't be in the EU, France shouldn't be a member either. Wiki - " Protesters told The Associated Press the unrest was an expression of frustration with high unemployment and police harassment and brutality in the areas. "People are joining together to say we've had enough," said one protester. "We live in ghettos. Everyone lives in fear." The rioters' suburbs are also home to a large, mostly North African, immigrant population, allegedly adding religious tensions which some right-wing commentators believed contribute further to such frustrations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 ^ Kudos for the bait and switch, Jason Robinson would be proud of that dodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Sorry, have I been enigmatic and impenetrable? I apologise again, I was trying that out because I thought it might be more affable, but to avoid confusion I'll switch back to being condescending and arrogant. My point is that, Turkey don't have the right to not be offended, and that for you to want to appease them because 'they might get a little bit upset' is the worst kind of PC pandering. And, as an aside, it makes your 'War on Islamic Terror' look really {censored}ing stupid when you're afraid to even acknowledge and recognise the genocide of 1.5 million people, committed by a country which happened to be...umm...oh what's the word for it...Islamic! Look, may as well cool your jets. We've got a big-ass airbase there, and as long as we do, there won't be much bitch-slappin' going on there. Of course we've been planning to scrap most of the international bases, so maybe that'll change. But until then, you just gotta go with the hypocrisy....we're a riddle wrapped in a paradox surrounded by..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Since the resolution being discussed here involves Armenian genocide, it has everything to do with it. According to the rest of the world the US is committing human rights atrocities at Gitmo. The only atrocity I see here is the EU keeping Turkey out of the EU, when France has no problem keeping immigrant youth unemployed and making the system so harsh for them that they have to set fires to automobiles and demonstrate for days to bring attention to their plight and frustration at being treated as second class citizens. Based upon the reasons given that Turkey can't be in the EU, France shouldn't be a member either. Wiki - " Protesters told The Associated Press the unrest was an expression of frustration with high unemployment and police harassment and brutality in the areas. "People are joining together to say we've had enough," said one protester. "We live in ghettos. Everyone lives in fear." The rioters' suburbs are also home to a large, mostly North African, immigrant population, allegedly adding religious tensions which some right-wing commentators believed contribute further to such frustrations." You want big fun? trying living as a Jew in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Look, may as well cool your jets. We've got a big-ass airbase there, and as long as we do, there won't be much bitch-slappin' going on there. Of course we've been planning to scrap most of the international bases, so maybe that'll change. But until then, you just gotta go with the hypocrisy....we're a riddle wrapped in a paradox surrounded by..... Fair play but, in the words of everyone's favourite drink-sodden ex-Trotskyite popinjay, they're 'an ally you're better off without' http://www.slate.com/id/2079633/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Turkey has an abysmal human rights record and some very questionable practises...? The same could be said about China and now, because of technology advances, they're being forced to seriously address how they handle themselves as a country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Fair play but, in the words of everyone's favourite drink-sodden ex-Trotskyite popinjay, they're 'an ally you're better off without'http://www.slate.com/id/2079633/ All depends who we gotta lay a woop-assin' on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Shoot, I'm so far Left that I think Ron Paul is the best candidate (available). don't feel bad. I'm so far right I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 15, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 don't feel bad. I'm so far right I agree with you. You're not gonna go and get *this* thread locked now too, are you????:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 Turkey has an abysmal human rights record and some very questionable practises (press freedom is a joke there, and Kurdish language and culture was outlawed until recently) as for having aspirations to join the EU, but refusing to officially recognise one of the member states... like, what?They always expect everything to go their way, and themselves to be exceptions to the rule. They're the spoiled brat of international politics. They get a little meaningless rap on the knuckles and start crying, while they have 35,000 troops stationed not 10km away from where I currently sit, propping up a puppet-state they created on MY inheritance.'We might offend them' well big deal. It's time for them to grow up. If the US wants to be taken seriously as a protector of freedom and human rights, they'd better call their own allies on it too. Would you really want an ally who would react in a ridiculous manner over something symbolic? Most of the civilised world calls what happened ethnic clensing and genocide (let's see, 1.5 million people forced to leave their homes and die in the desert, I think that qualifies), they got all huffy and puffy about it for a while then shut up. That's what's going to happen now, they rely on US support an awful lot as well.Germany and Japan have gone through a long process of acknowledging and coming to terms with what they committed in WWII. So I don't see why Turkey shouldn't. I can't disagree with anything you've said here. The biggest question however is why now? Why must this be addressed at this particular moment in history? The Armenian genocide happened nearly 100 years ago. What's the impetus behind the Dems urgency to do this now? The answer is as sinister as it is ugly. The Dems need the war in Iraq to be lost at any cost and they need it done before Bush's term is up. They have placed themselves in a position where the only way they can be right is if the USA loses. The Dems are between Iraq and a hard place. They can't simply defund the war because the voters would crucify them at the ballot box and they don't have the votes in congress to pull the troops. The surge is working, Iragi tribes have begun to band together to force Al Queda out and there are some in political circiles and the pentagon who are starting to use the word "victoy" and Iraq in the same sentence. The Dems can't have success breaking out all over Iraq. They need to sabatoge the war and they need to do it quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 You're not gonna go and get *this* thread locked now too, are you????:poke:Hey, I just fight fire with fire.well, more like I fight fire with Gasoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hi.flyer Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 The Native American genocide needs to be recognized as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted October 15, 2007 Members Share Posted October 15, 2007 The Native American genocide needs to be recognized as well. Recognised how? I don't think anyone is really unaware of it are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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