Members nchangin Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman . The sonic contribution that subs make to the sound is just gravy! I agree about subs, they rule, and to use his quote it's gravy, but you need the mashed taters before you can add the gravy. Mashed taters = practice and rehersal. I use 4 subs. My apologies on my post if I came off wrong. I still think this band (based on the videos) should focus on their performancevocals and "the one band one sound principle" before adding subs at this time. By all means if you have the money and time add the subs it's fine, but I'd be more focused on rehersal at this time in their career after looking at this from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinC Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 no doubt! I need subs too! Originally Posted by Lee Knight Subs have been known to tighten up a band, inspire confidence in harmony singing and instill a sense of natural stage presence. I'd get subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by MartinC no doubt! I need subs too! I need to double up on my subs. I need to suck WAY less than I do.Hey guys, I totally agree that adding subs, using subs in any room does not necessarily constitute overkill. I've spec'ed out nice music playback setups for both of my wife's hair salons and they both included subs. If used in balance, it is an integral part of a complete system. Of course. However......in smaller rooms with smaller crowds soaking up things, it is still entirely possible to achieve that balance without subs. From the kick off stage and the bass amp. There are plenty of guys playing gigs of that size. So the point is, subs may not be as MANDATORY as some of you believe. For those small gigs. And looking at those videos, the venues appeared pretty small. Would subs work? Of course. Could they easily be misused and abused and make their sound worse for that venue. Very LIKELY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight I need to double up on my subs. I need to suck WAY less than I do. You're point has been made. But nobody has ever suggested it's an either-or proposition. The band could spend time rehearsing and getting tighter AND still buy subs and help improve their out-front sound! ...in smaller rooms with smaller crowds soaking up things, it is still entirely possible to achieve that balance without subs. From the kick off stage and the bass amp. There are plenty of guys playing gigs of that size.So the point is, subs may not be as MANDATORY as some of you believe. For those small gigs. And looking at those videos, the venues appeared pretty small. I think it's largely genre-dependent. For rock and dance music, I personally just don't believe the sound you get just from the kick off stage is sufficient. For more easy-listening type stuff. Sure, it's probably fine in a small room. Would subs work? Of course. Could they easily be misused and abused and make their sound worse for that venue. Very LIKELY!!! Every piece of equipment must be used properly, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by nchangin I agree about subs, they rule, and to use his quote it's gravy, but you need the mashed taters before you can add the gravy. Mashed taters = practice and rehersal. I use 4 subs. My comments about subs were a response to SeniorBlues comments/questions about room size and "cutoff [for sub use], expressed in square feet". Like many who've posted that equipment is not a substitute for delivering a quality musical performance - I'm certainly not suggesting that subs are going to solve that problem. My point was simply that when facing a choice of using a "small sub/speaker pole/main" combination versus "mains on tripod stands" - I'll virtually always go the "small sub/speaker pole/main" route for the reasons I outlined (smaller/safer footprint, setup consistency, etc.) ... and that yes, in those scenarios, the sonic contribution that subs make is just gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 We'll be playing in a venue this Sunday that runs their own sound, which I am sure will have subs. . . a first for this band - or at least the current lineup. I hope to get some audio and/or video and more importantly, their impression of the sound quality. I don't suppose it matters that all the soul music we'll be playing during our short set was written before subs were in common use . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 You're point has been made. Well... that's never stopped you before!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I don't suppose it matters that all the soul music we'll be playing during our short set was written before subs were in common use . . . . . I wouldn't see why age-of-the-material would make any difference. My band might decide to play "The Charleston" or "Yellow Rose of Texas", but I wouldn't want to do it through a megaphone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 I wouldn't see why age-of-the-material would make any difference. My band might decide to play "The Charleston" or "Yellow Rose of Texas", but I wouldn't want to do it through a megaphone.... I listened to "sandman" the other day - for the first time. OF COURSE you needs subs for that stuff! I asked about room specs and got some good answers, but I think it really is genre specific more than room size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 19, 2012 Members Share Posted December 19, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I listened to "sandman" the other day - for the first time. OF COURSE you needs subs for that stuff! I asked about room specs and got some good answers, but I think it really is genre specific more than room size. Well so when my country/classic rock band plays some Hank Williams or Johnny Cash songs we should turn the subs off on those songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Well so when my country/classic rock band plays some Hank Williams or Johnny Cash songs we should turn the subs off on those songs? Well if you need it for a lot of your material, then you should have it, but if there isn't much difference in an A - B comparison for most of your songs, then some guys may decide it's not worth the investment and/or lugging them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Well if you need it for a lot of your material, then you should have it, but if there isn't much difference in an A - B comparison for most of your songs, then some guys may decide it's not worth the investment and/or lugging them around. There is no comparison if you are using subs you will sound better unless you are playing in a band with no drums,bass or keyboard. If for no other reason than because your top speakers will not have to reproduce the lower frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman There is no comparison if you are using subs you will sound better unless you are playing in a band with no drums,bass or keyboard. If for no other reason than because your top speakers will not have to reproduce the lower frequencies. But they're designed to do that. My new keyboard amplification set up is a direct line into an EV bi-amped 15"/horn active speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Well if you need it for a lot of your material, then you should have it, but if there isn't much difference in an A - B comparison for most of your songs, then some guys may decide it's not worth the investment and/or lugging them around. I'd hesistate to base it on the material you play. Should be more based on the instrumentation. If you've got bass guitar and kick drum and want them to be heard at anything much above talking level, they'll sound better with some decent subs. And it will take a load off the rest of the speakers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 I'd hesistate to base it on the material you play. Should be more based on the instrumentation. If you've got bass guitar and kick drum and want them to be heard at anything much above talking level, they'll sound better with some decent subs. And it will take a load off the rest of the speakers as well. Talking level?! Please. Are you really too young to remember when kick ass bands used PAs for vocals only? A lot of them still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Talking level?! Please. Are you really too young to remember when kick ass bands used PAs for vocals only? A lot of them still do. and if they are playing rock, they sound dated and garagy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead and if they are playing rock, they sound dated and garagy. My frame of reference isn't rock. . . . but I will say that I've heard a lot of very good bands in small bars that don't sound "garagy" at all. We're talking full time pros.And more to the point in this thread. . . . The myriad mediocre bands that we all like to rag on won't be helped by subs. It's the music, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues My frame of reference isn't rock. . . . but I will say that I've heard a lot of very good bands in small bars that don't sound "garagy" at all. We're talking full time pros.And more to the point in this thread. . . . The myriad mediocre bands that we all like to rag on won't be helped by subs. It's the music, folks. its all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead its all of it. Well yes . . . . and no. We could list all the things we talk about here that contribute to successful participation in the live music scene, but I'm sure you'll agree that there are different paths that work reasonably well that pay little attention to some while emphasizing others. As I recall, you're the one who de-emphasizes attire, at least to the extent that some of us would. Your approach works for you; end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues Talking level?! Please. Are you really too young to remember when kick ass bands used PAs for vocals only? A lot of them still do. No I remember late 70s into the 80s when kickass bands were using huge 3 or 4 way systems and concert level lighting and needed a big box truck to haul it around. That is the way the men did it. Bands using vocal only PAs were playing {censored}holes just like they do now. It looks to me that the majority of the posters that are using subs for the most part are the ones making money. Maybe because they have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman No I remember late 70s into the 80s when kickass bands were using huge 3 or 4 way systems and concert level lighting and needed a big box truck to haul it around. That is the way the men did it. Bands using vocal only PAs were playing {censored}holes just like they do now. It looks to me that the majority of the posters that are using subs for the most part are the ones making money. Maybe because they have a clue. I stand by my post. You're too young to remember the days before subs - late 60s, early 70s. And you're wrong about the correlation between subs and net annual income, at least in my market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I stand by my post. You're too young to remember the days before subs - late 60s, early 70s. And you're wrong about the correlation between subs and net annual income, at least in my market. Whatever if subs would have been available back in the 60s when the dinosaurs ruled the earth the bands that cared what they sounded like would have been using them instead of a shure vocalmaster PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Whatever if subs would have been available back in the 60s when the dinosaurs ruled the earth the bands that cared what they sounded like would have been using them instead of a shure vocalmaster PA. Your ageism doesn't impress me. I was playing through state of the art VOT A7s on the road and I don't think it had any effect on our net one way or the other. I'm tempted to post videos of current kick ass bands playing without subs, but I know from reading your posts that they will fall on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm not exactly a spring chicken {52} but I have been playing in bands non stop now for 35 years. Can you say the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 20, 2012 Members Share Posted December 20, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman I'm not exactly a spring chicken {52} but I have been playing in bands non stop now for 35 years. Can you say the same? I'm thirteen years older than you. I played full time when I was young. I played a different style of music, both then and now. Most importantly, we're playing in different circuits. Whether or not you have other interests that you've pursued during your adult life does not change those relevant facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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