Members SpaceNorman Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead Of course, playing in time together, playing in tune (without tuning live between every song) not having dead time between songs, etc, is also very important. It all depends on the level at which you're playing. One of my projects has horrendous amounts of dead time between songs ... we finish a tune, we stop and high five one another, switch guitars, strum to check that they're still in tune, look at the set list, then look at one another as if to ask is that really what we're gonna play next? ... then everybody takes a drink, looks at one another again to see if everybody is ready ... finally, the drummer counts us into the next tune. The dead time between tunes is maddening to me! However, we've got a lead vocalist who totally owns every tune that he sings - and the crowd LOVES him because of it. He simply commands the attention of the crowd - and belts it out like there's no tomorrow. We gig 1-2 a month (because that's how much we want to work) ... we fill our calendar by telling the bar owner what dates we want to play. Every table in the joint is reserved a week before we play. All of this is because of our vocalist. All of the things you mentioned (playing in tune, dead time between songs, etc.) are important - and take whatever you have and helps you make the most of it. However, a crowd will overlook alot of the little stuff if there's a great vocalist involved.Mind you, I'm NOT advocating anybody play out of tune, waste time between tunes constantly tuning or put lots of dead time between songs .... I'm simply saying that in my experience, crowds will "forgive lots of sins" if there's a great vocalist involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but that is what the OP's band is playing. Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but that is what the OP's band is playing. Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its gonna be a tough sell to the corp, and pvt event bunch if all they play is heavy stuff like that. If you want the big money you do have to satisfy the big wallets in the corp and pvt event world. Just sayin I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain. Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman I don't think the OPs band is trying to target the private event/corp market. They are trying to move up the bar food chain. Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough. And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS Its kinda like deep sea fishing in a mud puddle then. Most bars are not big enough to generate high pay. I had an experience musican try to tell me that the bar was making money on them. Small crowd, and a 400 dollar band. When they figured it out ,, to break even it was gonna take everyone there drinking 11 beers to pay the band. this did not include the staff or any of the overhead. The numbers gotta be there to make a big money out of a bar. Most bars just are not that big and most people dont drink enough. And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene. bar pay is a function of bar size. Bars have to sell enough product to cover the band pay and still make the bar money. Then you have the cover charge effect. They can pay more with a cover. Its not so much a scene deal as it is a numbers deal from the amount of product sold. Its one of the reasons why lots of bars have their gig pay capped at 3 and 4 hundred bucks. The size limits how much they can rake off the top. I am sure you understand that. A corp or pvt event doesnt have those restrictions since they are just throwing an event and are not trying to make a living off the the venue. Speakin of private events ,, we crashed the border patrol christmas party last night since i had the night off . Interesting group lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman And since you live where the OP does you know all about his bar scene. bar pay is a function of bar size. Bars have to sell enough product to cover the band pay and still make the bar money. Then you have the cover charge effect. They can pay more with a cover. Its not so much a scene deal as it is a numbers deal from the amount of product sold. Its one of the reasons why lots of bars have their gig pay capped at 3 and 4 hundred bucks. The size limits how much they can rake off the top. I am sure you understand that. A corp or pvt event doesnt have those restrictions since they are just throwing an event and are not trying to make a living off the the venue. Speakin of private events ,, we crashed the border patrol christmas party last night since i had the night off . Interesting group lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by roamingbard13 ^ Mostly 90s and 00s Rock with some modern pop covers. Subs are probably definitely needed...is it okay to start with 1? This question (for best results) should be phrased in pairs such as: Mostly xxxx, is it okay to start with a pair of subs? heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Originally Posted by roamingbard13 ^ Mostly 90s and 00s Rock with some modern pop covers. Subs are probably definitely needed...is it okay to start with 1? This question (for best results) should be phrased in pairs such as: Mostly xxxx, is it okay to start with a pair of subs? heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Two years is a long time committment for a band! Do you have any recent video of you guys live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 Two years is a long time committment for a band! Do you have any recent video of you guys live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Timkeys: I can't speak for all club scenes, but I know there are many clubs in the northeast (from Maine to Maryland, out to Buffalo; I have spent MANY years playing in this area) that are large enough and that do pay very good money. To the OP: I provide lighting and sound in my area. A few of my clients hire me to get their feet into some of the larger clubs, especially for lighting. Often they raise their price to the club above what I charge them. This is easily justified as clubs tend to make more money when the entertainment has a proper light show (band, DJ, other...). The impact of a properly designed light show can be amazing! That said, lighting can quickly get to be very expensive and unwieldy if you want to make a decent impact. Avoid a few random fixtures running on sound-detection. It looks cheesy and DJ. There is nothing entertaining about this. You would be better off either going all out or very basic; not in between. I'm beginning to see more and more bands with their own light shows, but most just higher out for larger gigs. However having enough PA for the gig is assumed. If you do not have a good system (and the know-how to use it) all bets are off. You will only sound as big as your system. If you want to be perceived as being bigger than life (which a show should be) you have to sound bigger than life. A kick sounds cool. A kick through a good sub properly used can be huge. You don't get lost in a tune played through a transistor radio the same way you can with a good system. If you're playing rock, this is a must. This is what drives the club. However, all of the equipment in the world won't do {censored} if you can't back it up. Good equipment will make a good band HUGE and POWERFUL! ... the best equipment will only make a mediocre or {censored} band louder and brighter. In the end, you have to sell beer. This is all a bar band is... alcohol drink salesmen; as far as the bar owner/manager is concerned. Do you consistently fill a room? Are your fans big drinkers? All of the above will help. If you're a good band, you can get the fans who will buy drinks. If you're driving that music loud and clean, your fans will have more fun and want to dance. This sells drinks! Add a light show and it becomes an event. This keeps people there longer, drives more dancing, and builds larger crowds... all results in more drinks sold... So, if you're selling more drinks than the other bands, if you're selling enough drinks, you deserve a higher price. If you're not, you don't. For my band, when we raise our fee at a particular club, that club owner/manager knows we are a worth-while investment and we get what we are asking for. But we don't look to raise our fee unless we know we are earning it. For clubs somewhat close to each other, we try to keep our fees very close. Club owners talk to each other. If you're asking $500 at one club, but $1000 at the other.... you ain't gonna get anywhere close to that $1000 even if you deserve it at that club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Timkeys: I can't speak for all club scenes, but I know there are many clubs in the northeast (from Maine to Maryland, out to Buffalo; I have spent MANY years playing in this area) that are large enough and that do pay very good money. To the OP: I provide lighting and sound in my area. A few of my clients hire me to get their feet into some of the larger clubs, especially for lighting. Often they raise their price to the club above what I charge them. This is easily justified as clubs tend to make more money when the entertainment has a proper light show (band, DJ, other...). The impact of a properly designed light show can be amazing! That said, lighting can quickly get to be very expensive and unwieldy if you want to make a decent impact. Avoid a few random fixtures running on sound-detection. It looks cheesy and DJ. There is nothing entertaining about this. You would be better off either going all out or very basic; not in between. I'm beginning to see more and more bands with their own light shows, but most just higher out for larger gigs. However having enough PA for the gig is assumed. If you do not have a good system (and the know-how to use it) all bets are off. You will only sound as big as your system. If you want to be perceived as being bigger than life (which a show should be) you have to sound bigger than life. A kick sounds cool. A kick through a good sub properly used can be huge. You don't get lost in a tune played through a transistor radio the same way you can with a good system. If you're playing rock, this is a must. This is what drives the club. However, all of the equipment in the world won't do {censored} if you can't back it up. Good equipment will make a good band HUGE and POWERFUL! ... the best equipment will only make a mediocre or {censored} band louder and brighter. In the end, you have to sell beer. This is all a bar band is... alcohol drink salesmen; as far as the bar owner/manager is concerned. Do you consistently fill a room? Are your fans big drinkers? All of the above will help. If you're a good band, you can get the fans who will buy drinks. If you're driving that music loud and clean, your fans will have more fun and want to dance. This sells drinks! Add a light show and it becomes an event. This keeps people there longer, drives more dancing, and builds larger crowds... all results in more drinks sold... So, if you're selling more drinks than the other bands, if you're selling enough drinks, you deserve a higher price. If you're not, you don't. For my band, when we raise our fee at a particular club, that club owner/manager knows we are a worth-while investment and we get what we are asking for. But we don't look to raise our fee unless we know we are earning it. For clubs somewhat close to each other, we try to keep our fees very close. Club owners talk to each other. If you're asking $500 at one club, but $1000 at the other.... you ain't gonna get anywhere close to that $1000 even if you deserve it at that club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roamingbard13 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks for all the advice -- the winter is time to think about this here. We play in a touristy area and the bars have a much higher budget for entertainment in the summer. Couple of videos for those who are interested -- we are working a female vocalist in to the mix. She plays almost a full set of songs with us now. These are both in our smallest venue -- but we are their #1 band. {censored}ty promo vid -- we are working on a better one. I asked for something much different than this, but we had technical issues with our board feed which caused some tension, and the videographer was working for free because they owed our drummer a favor. We'll pay for it next time. And our first full-length show together: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roamingbard13 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks for all the advice -- the winter is time to think about this here. We play in a touristy area and the bars have a much higher budget for entertainment in the summer. Couple of videos for those who are interested -- we are working a female vocalist in to the mix. She plays almost a full set of songs with us now. These are both in our smallest venue -- but we are their #1 band. {censored}ty promo vid -- we are working on a better one. I asked for something much different than this, but we had technical issues with our board feed which caused some tension, and the videographer was working for free because they owed our drummer a favor. We'll pay for it next time. And our first full-length show together: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 your bass player seems a little unfamiliar with much of your material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 your bass player seems a little unfamiliar with much of your material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks for putting up the vids. I think you guys sound best with the girl in the band. The harmony is better and makes a much better impression on me. I think your best bet is to place your effort on getting the music tighter and get the vocals and harmony tight. Things seem just a touch choppy. At this point practice is going to pay bigger dividends than subs or lights. I would not expect more gear being the thing that gives you the next leg up. Becomming a better band is really where the focus should be. Thats not to say you should not get some more gear, but its not going to be a magic bullet that turns out to being key to getting where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks for putting up the vids. I think you guys sound best with the girl in the band. The harmony is better and makes a much better impression on me. I think your best bet is to place your effort on getting the music tighter and get the vocals and harmony tight. Things seem just a touch choppy. At this point practice is going to pay bigger dividends than subs or lights. I would not expect more gear being the thing that gives you the next leg up. Becomming a better band is really where the focus should be. Thats not to say you should not get some more gear, but its not going to be a magic bullet that turns out to being key to getting where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 The promo video looks pretty good. I found you (I assume it's you in the blue) REALLY distracting in the one video. Tuning, changing strings, making a sandwich, or whatever it was you were doing. You looked bored and fiddly. Even if you don't play in a song, you have to find something to do...The girl did a pretty good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 The promo video looks pretty good. I found you (I assume it's you in the blue) REALLY distracting in the one video. Tuning, changing strings, making a sandwich, or whatever it was you were doing. You looked bored and fiddly. Even if you don't play in a song, you have to find something to do...The girl did a pretty good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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