Members Unalaska Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 I watched the 2 vids. I'd spend the money on a better promo vid (best roi all around) and rehearsals. There's no energy in the band, no drive. When you play you should be defining the performance space and dance area in front. All the vids I saw there was a table right in front of the band. Clear space, add lighting to the band. Add decent PA that will separate you from the audience. Tune the damn drums too, they sound bad. I'm just rambling here so take this with a grain of salt. The band needs personality and a focal point too. The girl singer definitely helps with that, utilize her and make her a real part of the band. Your band isn't a collection of songs but you're entertaining people whether you know it or not. Own the entertaining, don't be the secondary,"oh the band in the corner is playing a song I kinda like". People will respond to music the don't even like much if its played with conviction. That's what you need is conviction. And between songs you still need to hold the audiences attention, so keep between song time to an absolute minimum and best if none at all.Hope that helps. You may find some band members resistant to this change, fire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 I watched the 2 vids. I'd spend the money on a better promo vid (best roi all around) and rehearsals. There's no energy in the band, no drive. When you play you should be defining the performance space and dance area in front. All the vids I saw there was a table right in front of the band. Clear space, add lighting to the band. Add decent PA that will separate you from the audience. Tune the damn drums too, they sound bad. I'm just rambling here so take this with a grain of salt. The band needs personality and a focal point too. The girl singer definitely helps with that, utilize her and make her a real part of the band. Your band isn't a collection of songs but you're entertaining people whether you know it or not. Own the entertaining, don't be the secondary,"oh the band in the corner is playing a song I kinda like". People will respond to music the don't even like much if its played with conviction. That's what you need is conviction. And between songs you still need to hold the audiences attention, so keep between song time to an absolute minimum and best if none at all.Hope that helps. You may find some band members resistant to this change, fire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Of course! And after watching the OP's video I feel he's jumping the gun by getting "subs". He showed the videos for a reason. I'm glad he did. The lack of lower octave from the PA was far less of an issue than the unpolished stage presence. Plain and simple. Subs won't fix that. So apparently I am not stating the obvious. And I really think it needs to be said. They have some work to do before attracting bigger fish, gig-wise. Looking at the audience and sharing a good time with them is far more powerful than a banner. Wowing them with some tight harmony actually has a bigger impact that chase lighting. I'm not just playing hard to get along with. I think by concerning themselves with this other stuff before the essentials are fully in place is a mistake that won't help them even in the short run. OK... I'll stop. I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Of course! And after watching the OP's video I feel he's jumping the gun by getting "subs". He showed the videos for a reason. I'm glad he did. The lack of lower octave from the PA was far less of an issue than the unpolished stage presence. Plain and simple. Subs won't fix that. So apparently I am not stating the obvious. And I really think it needs to be said. They have some work to do before attracting bigger fish, gig-wise. Looking at the audience and sharing a good time with them is far more powerful than a banner. Wowing them with some tight harmony actually has a bigger impact that chase lighting. I'm not just playing hard to get along with. I think by concerning themselves with this other stuff before the essentials are fully in place is a mistake that won't help them even in the short run. OK... I'll stop. I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music. It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen. That is exactly where I'm comig from as well. I've seen it. Heck, I've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RobRoy Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by SeniorBlues I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music. It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen. That is exactly where I'm comig from as well. I've seen it. Heck, I've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it. Using a vocal harmonizer might be lame, but I'd rather hear someone use that than sing songs with no harmonies at all. I had to sing every single song in the band I had in 2009 because no one else was able to sing harmony in the group. Sometimes, you have to work with what you have at the moment. Thankfully, I don't have to use it anymore. It was a lot more work to turn it off and on at just the right moment and blend it so that it didn't sound too fake on top of singing all the songs and playing lead guitar on almost every song too (I switched off on bass on a few songs to give the bassist some lead guitar time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it. Using a vocal harmonizer might be lame, but I'd rather hear someone use that than sing songs with no harmonies at all. I had to sing every single song in the band I had in 2009 because no one else was able to sing harmony in the group. Sometimes, you have to work with what you have at the moment. Thankfully, I don't have to use it anymore. It was a lot more work to turn it off and on at just the right moment and blend it so that it didn't sound too fake on top of singing all the songs and playing lead guitar on almost every song too (I switched off on bass on a few songs to give the bassist some lead guitar time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by RobRoy I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. This is very common in photography. Camera collectors (and "upgraders") are more common than guitar collectors . . . and as you say, there is no correlation between number of tools and your ability to create something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by RobRoy I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. This is very common in photography. Camera collectors (and "upgraders") are more common than guitar collectors . . . and as you say, there is no correlation between number of tools and your ability to create something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by RobRoy I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. Exactly. While in France a few weeks back, I suggested to my daughter that she use this great time in Paris to do a school project in Photography. I bought her a 1000 dollar Nikon last Christmas. A nice SLR. Because she'd really worked at getting good at this. So... some software setting gets haywire on the Nikon. I can't seem to reboot it to get it to work. "Dad, can I borrow your iPhone?" She did the project on my iPhone and (dare I brag on her) her composition and eye for interesting detail is phenomenal. She doesn't need subs... I mean the Nikon. If I'd bought her the Nikon a year before, I doubt she be as good as she is now. I honestly believe having gear that good too soon is a distraction. I played on a cheap ass Crown acoustic and a $19 dollar Japanese no name electric before I moved up to a SG copy. And yes, when I played clubs at age 19, we did have a full scale PA, but we were GOOD. We already had a seasoned show and good chops. Concentrate on the important stuff first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by RobRoy I joined a photography class back in 1979. One of the folks in the class was a doctor with better equipment than the instructor, and the instructor had darned nice stuff. We did some classroom stuff and a lot of photo field trips. Out of 10 people in the class, this doctor with the nice equipment took the worst photos. He had NO eye, but he could afford good stuff. A lot of people get into the whole scene and satisfy their GAS, but they just don't have - or refuse to take - the time to sing or play well. They need one of those instant Matrix mind dumps. One of the guys I work with can't play guitar, but he has several really nice ones and plans to take lessons eventually. He's in his sixties. Exactly. While in France a few weeks back, I suggested to my daughter that she use this great time in Paris to do a school project in Photography. I bought her a 1000 dollar Nikon last Christmas. A nice SLR. Because she'd really worked at getting good at this. So... some software setting gets haywire on the Nikon. I can't seem to reboot it to get it to work. "Dad, can I borrow your iPhone?" She did the project on my iPhone and (dare I brag on her) her composition and eye for interesting detail is phenomenal. She doesn't need subs... I mean the Nikon. If I'd bought her the Nikon a year before, I doubt she be as good as she is now. I honestly believe having gear that good too soon is a distraction. I played on a cheap ass Crown acoustic and a $19 dollar Japanese no name electric before I moved up to a SG copy. And yes, when I played clubs at age 19, we did have a full scale PA, but we were GOOD. We already had a seasoned show and good chops. Concentrate on the important stuff first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Exactly. While in France a few weeks back, I suggested to my daughter that she use this great time in Paris to do a school project in Photography. I bought her a 1000 dollar Nikon. I nice SLR. Because she'd really worked at gotten good at this. So... some setting gets haywire on the Nikon. I can't seem to reboot it to get it to work. "Dad, can I borrow your iPhone?" She did the project on my iPhone and (dare I brag on her) the composition and eye for interesting detail is phenomenal. She doesn't need subs... I mean the Nikon. If I'd bought her the Nikon a year before, I doubt she be as good as she is now. I honestly believe having gear that good too soon is a distraction. I played on a cheap ass crown acoustic and a $19 dollar Japanese no name electric before I moved up to a SG copy. And yes, when I played clubs at age 19, we did have a full scale PA, but we were GOOD. We already had a seasoned show and good chops. Concentrate on the important stuff first. Unless the better gear can somehow make a musician or a photographer WORSE, I can't possibly see the value in suggesting they don't get it or that they do something else "first". It isn't either/or. You can buy subs AND still practice a lot. Either you have an eye for photography or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Exactly. While in France a few weeks back, I suggested to my daughter that she use this great time in Paris to do a school project in Photography. I bought her a 1000 dollar Nikon. I nice SLR. Because she'd really worked at gotten good at this. So... some setting gets haywire on the Nikon. I can't seem to reboot it to get it to work. "Dad, can I borrow your iPhone?" She did the project on my iPhone and (dare I brag on her) the composition and eye for interesting detail is phenomenal. She doesn't need subs... I mean the Nikon. If I'd bought her the Nikon a year before, I doubt she be as good as she is now. I honestly believe having gear that good too soon is a distraction. I played on a cheap ass crown acoustic and a $19 dollar Japanese no name electric before I moved up to a SG copy. And yes, when I played clubs at age 19, we did have a full scale PA, but we were GOOD. We already had a seasoned show and good chops. Concentrate on the important stuff first. Unless the better gear can somehow make a musician or a photographer WORSE, I can't possibly see the value in suggesting they don't get it or that they do something else "first". It isn't either/or. You can buy subs AND still practice a lot. Either you have an eye for photography or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but subs really shouldn't make you simply louder, if you are doing things correctly. Weekend bands doing somthing incorrect ,, imagine that. You see it all the time from very experienced bands. Too lound is the number one complaint with bands, after you get past the you guys suck complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but subs really shouldn't make you simply louder, if you are doing things correctly. Weekend bands doing somthing incorrect ,, imagine that. You see it all the time from very experienced bands. Too lound is the number one complaint with bands, after you get past the you guys suck complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 Unless the better gear can somehow make a musician or a photographer WORSE... Well, that's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it? That it CAN make them worse. Or rather, improve a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by guido61 Unless the better gear can somehow make a musician or a photographer WORSE... Well, that's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it? That it CAN make them worse. Or rather, improve a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Well, that's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it? That it CAN make them worse. Or rather, improve a lot slower. Well, that's just dumb. Sorry. "If only I hadn't bought and used all this nice gear, I'd probably be a better player today...." Huh? It makes no sense. Guys who have the talent and work ethic to be good will be good regardless of the gear they're playing on. A band that sucks isn't going to suck worse if they play through a better PA. How on earth is a set of subs going to make a band improve slower? Look, I get that some people either get amused when they see lousy bands playing through nice gear, or laugh when that lousy photographer who has much nicer equipment than you, but so what? It might make them look more silly, but it doesn't make them worse. If somebody is so dumb or lazy or untalented that they think getting a nice PA is an excuse to not practice, then NOT getting that PA isn't going to help them either. They'll still be dumb and lazy and untalented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Well, that's exactly what I'm saying, isn't it? That it CAN make them worse. Or rather, improve a lot slower. Well, that's just dumb. Sorry. "If only I hadn't bought and used all this nice gear, I'd probably be a better player today...." Huh? It makes no sense. Guys who have the talent and work ethic to be good will be good regardless of the gear they're playing on. A band that sucks isn't going to suck worse if they play through a better PA. How on earth is a set of subs going to make a band improve slower? Look, I get that some people either get amused when they see lousy bands playing through nice gear, or laugh when that lousy photographer who has much nicer equipment than you, but so what? It might make them look more silly, but it doesn't make them worse. If somebody is so dumb or lazy or untalented that they think getting a nice PA is an excuse to not practice, then NOT getting that PA isn't going to help them either. They'll still be dumb and lazy and untalented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 If "nice" refers to quality of sound, then that's a good thing, but if it means having a more complicated setup, that can distract you and even cause things to grind to a halt sometimes, as happened with my trio. That can be true with cameras if you're just starting out, but I assure you, a good viewfinder, high ISO capability, and the ability to adjust aperture, shutter speed, and exposure WILL produce a lot more keepers than if you're pointing and shooting with an iphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 If "nice" refers to quality of sound, then that's a good thing, but if it means having a more complicated setup, that can distract you and even cause things to grind to a halt sometimes, as happened with my trio. That can be true with cameras if you're just starting out, but I assure you, a good viewfinder, high ISO capability, and the ability to adjust aperture, shutter speed, and exposure WILL produce a lot more keepers than if you're pointing and shooting with an iphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2012 Members Share Posted December 21, 2012 Subs don't really complicate a set up much and have nothing to do with rehearsal since most bands are only going to use them at gigs. They might slow down the setup time at a gig a bit--but depending on your setup, even that's not necessarily true. My wife has a great eye for photography and can take a much better picture with an iPhone or an instamatic than I ever could with the most advanced camera. And cameras are a bit different I suppose because there's the learning-how-to-use the damned thing process first that isn't necessarily true with musical equipment. But I don't think anyone ever DIDN'T become a concert pianist because they started out learning to play on a Steinway grand rather than a cheap upright.I'm reminded of visiting a friend of mine recently who's a really good drummer and a bit of gear-hound. Has a bunch of really nice, expensive kits. He's telling me he wants to learn to play guitar and has started taking some lessons and proceeds to pull out a top-of-the-line Taylor and Fender Strat. I laugh to myself a bit thinking these guitars are so much nicer than the junk I gig with regularly. And I comment "wow, these are some REALLY nice guitars! Especially for just starting out!" He says "do you think I should have gotten something else? My teacher told me that it's beter to start out with good gear, so I got these..." "No," I said "I'm sure these will be just fine. But yeah...REALLY nice, dude!"Bottom line---he's as dedicated to learning to play as he's gonna be. That's what's in his heart, not in his gear. Will those nice guitars make him MORE inspired to practice harder? Maybe. Maybe not. But I certainly don't see how they could SLOW DOWN his progress. Plus, he's got a lot of money to spend and likes nice stuff. So why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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