What are some ways to improve the "value" of your band?

[Potts]

Sorry...again I'm with Lee on this entirely. The rest of you are trying to argue your points to save face or something.

A band at this stage doesn't need a banner, subs, a light show or anything else. They need to take the talent they have and form a tight cohesive unit.

If you cant see Lee's point through his "storefront" example then you must be a little clueless.

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by Potts

Sorry...again I'm with Lee on this entirely. The rest of you are trying to argue your points to save face or something.

A band at this stage doesn't need a banner, subs, a light show or anything else. They need to take the talent they have and form a tight cohesive unit.

If you cant see Lee's point through his "storefront" example then you must be a little clueless.

 

Amen.

Nine pages and only one post that deals with making rehearsals more effective? Wtf...

More rehearsals is lame and knee jerk. Having someone that has earned the respect of the others and has the ear and music knowledge to step up as a music director is what pro ensembles do.

Period end of story. Btw, that is my role in my current band.

[Vito Corleone]

Beyond repeating for the millionth time that it's ALL important and doing one thing does not and should preclude another, it's probably worth mentioining--which mstreck already touched upon, that leap-frogging ahead with better gear and better gigs CAN help improve a band. Is there any musician here who's been doing this for any length of time that doesn't have a story about how getting some gig you probably weren't quite ready for helped push the band forward musically? It's these sorts of things that give a band an objective goal and reason to improve.

The bands and musicians that end up having the most success are the ones that just get out there and do it and make it happen for themselves. And if they aren't quite firing on all 8 cylinders, then they can play catch-up in that area later on. Sometimes that's THE best way to moving forward. In my experience, the guys who sit the basement and rehearse endlessly waiting for everything to be musically perfect are the ones who never get out, never have any fun, never make any money, never experience the real thrills that come from gigging and being in a working band and never move forward.

Especially at a cover band level, this is SUPPOSED be about having fun and making some extra cash (if not a living) right? Not about sitting around fretting what some jackass muso without a gig standing in the back of the room is going to think. Imagine if the guys in The Clash waited around to start gigging or working on their show because they were worried they didn't have the individual chops of the guys in Yes or weren't as tight as Tower of Power?

And yeah, I think we DO actually have a better time and put on a better show and even ~gasp!~ play better when we can feel the subs making the low-end thunder the stage and making the gig feel that much more like a rock concert. {censored} ya. Subs rock.

[wades_keys]

If i were the md in this band, I would shut down that Sublime tune. Rushed feel. Drummer needs to be behind the beat. Guitar: play loose. Let's try that again, make it swing.

Practice THAT way. Have the originals ready to cue up. Be prepAred for people to get annoyed at this direction. But stick with it.

[wades_keys]

Wtf you talking about David? The clash were as tight as it gets. Lot of sophistication in that band. Don't let their punk label fool you. I watched hours of live clash vids just recently and was floored at how tight they were.

Their drummer in particular is a machine. Excellent time and unwavering technique.

And I don't even think subs existed back then lol.

[wades_keys]

Wtf you talking about David? The clash were as tight as it gets. Lot of sophistication in that band. Don't let their punk label fool you. I watched hours of live clash vids just recently and was floored at how tight they were.

Their drummer in particular is a machine. Excellent time and unwavering technique.

And I don't even think subs existed back then lol.

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah, they were just the height of sophistication and tightness when they started out.....

 

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah, they were just the height of sophistication and tightness when they started out.....

 

[wades_keys]

Nope, better gear and better gigs only go so far. Water seeks the lowest level. Band rehearsals are the place to learn good habits, learn proper parts to play and sing, and listen for and correct defects

[wades_keys]

Nope, better gear and better gigs only go so far. Water seeks the lowest level. Band rehearsals are the place to learn good habits, learn proper parts to play and sing, and listen for and correct defects

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, they were just the height of sophistication and tightness when they started out.....

 

 

So what? Bad gig, or lack of practice. You can't know what got em tight. Everyone likes to say its the gigs. Makes a better story than talking about producers and others guiding the band during rehearsals. {censored} it man: Do what you do I guess. I cast my lot with ibtelligent and well directed rehearsals.

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, they were just the height of sophistication and tightness when they started out.....

 

 

So what? Bad gig, or lack of practice. You can't know what got em tight. Everyone likes to say its the gigs. Makes a better story than talking about producers and others guiding the band during rehearsals. {censored} it man: Do what you do I guess. I cast my lot with ibtelligent and well directed rehearsals.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Nope, better gear and better gigs only go so far. Water seeks the lowest level. Band rehearsals are the place to learn good habits, learn proper parts to play and sing, and listen for and correct defects

 

~sigh~ what part of it isn't a either/or deal is so hard for anyone to understand. You can practice WITH subs! Or practice with the lights sitting out in the van waiting for the next gig!

Read back through these 9 pages and show where ANYONE has even loosely IMPLIED that any of that stuff PRECLUDES practicing. No one has said it. No has implied it. Why? Because no one believes it. So why are you continually posting as if someone HAS said it?

I'm at a loss here. Really.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Nope, better gear and better gigs only go so far. Water seeks the lowest level. Band rehearsals are the place to learn good habits, learn proper parts to play and sing, and listen for and correct defects

 

~sigh~ what part of it isn't a either/or deal is so hard for anyone to understand. You can practice WITH subs! Or practice with the lights sitting out in the van waiting for the next gig!

Read back through these 9 pages and show where ANYONE has even loosely IMPLIED that any of that stuff PRECLUDES practicing. No one has said it. No has implied it. Why? Because no one believes it. So why are you continually posting as if someone HAS said it?

I'm at a loss here. Really.

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

~sigh~ what part of it isn't a either/or deal is so hard for anyone to understand. You can practice WITH subs! Or practice with the lights sitting out in the van waiting for the next gig!

Read back through these 9 pages and show where ANYONE has even loosely IMPLIED that any of that stuff PRECLUDES practicing. No one has said it. No has implied it. Why? Because no one believes it. So why are you continually posting as if someone HAS said it?

I'm at a loss here. Really.

 

Why do you put words in my mouth?

Here I'll spell it out for ya: you and others discuss subs, etc in exquisite detail but when it comes to rehearsal? Not so much. It's just: of course you need to practice.

Well: my take is this. Most bands don't practice effectively.

[wades_keys]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

~sigh~ what part of it isn't a either/or deal is so hard for anyone to understand. You can practice WITH subs! Or practice with the lights sitting out in the van waiting for the next gig!

Read back through these 9 pages and show where ANYONE has even loosely IMPLIED that any of that stuff PRECLUDES practicing. No one has said it. No has implied it. Why? Because no one believes it. So why are you continually posting as if someone HAS said it?

I'm at a loss here. Really.

 

Why do you put words in my mouth?

Here I'll spell it out for ya: you and others discuss subs, etc in exquisite detail but when it comes to rehearsal? Not so much. It's just: of course you need to practice.

Well: my take is this. Most bands don't practice effectively.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Why do you put words in my mouth?

 

These are your words, not mine:

 

But really: get subs.

 

 

Here I'll spell it out for ya: you and others discuss subs, etc in exquisite detail but when it comes to rehearsal? Not so much. It's just: of course you need to practice.

Well: my take is this. Most bands don't practice effectively.

 

Fine. No argument from me. I doubt any argument from anyone. But you know WHY these things always seem to end up in arguments around here? Because you and some other DON'T take a "you and other discuss subs; I'll talk about rehearsal" attitude. You take a "what I'm talking about is more important" attitude. You, yourself have done it several times in this thread---laughing at the idea of using subs. Laughing at other's posts mocking suggestions of buying gear as if those suggestions were ever made at the expense of the need to practice.

Look, if I ever do that---if I EVER post that some band doesn't need to practice, they just need more/better gear, THEN you can laugh. Until then, it really just comes across like you're making excuses for yourself.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Why do you put words in my mouth?

 

These are your words, not mine:

 

But really: get subs.

 

 

Here I'll spell it out for ya: you and others discuss subs, etc in exquisite detail but when it comes to rehearsal? Not so much. It's just: of course you need to practice.

Well: my take is this. Most bands don't practice effectively.

 

Fine. No argument from me. I doubt any argument from anyone. But you know WHY these things always seem to end up in arguments around here? Because you and some other DON'T take a "you and other discuss subs; I'll talk about rehearsal" attitude. You take a "what I'm talking about is more important" attitude. You, yourself have done it several times in this thread---laughing at the idea of using subs. Laughing at other's posts mocking suggestions of buying gear as if those suggestions were ever made at the expense of the need to practice.

Look, if I ever do that---if I EVER post that some band doesn't need to practice, they just need more/better gear, THEN you can laugh. Until then, it really just comes across like you're making excuses for yourself.

[MartinC]

Great gear is very important-a good sound makes you play better in addition to sound better. But, it really pales in comparision to musical and performance skills. Everyone knows a great player will still sound great with a crap instrument and a crap amp. As for the op, I don't know anything about subs. I've never been in a band that owned them. I've played through them because the better venues have their own sound.

When I was a kid, I wanted a marshall stack. I asked a more experienced player what he thought. He said save your money, when you NEED a marshall stack it will be there. He was right. When I really needed one, it was provided by the promoter.

I know some kinds of bands need to provide their own PA, but even though I've played a few thousand gigs, no band I've played with since the 80's had even a mid level one. I can't even imagine how much I'd want to charge to buy, set up, maintain, operate, and haul around big PA in addition to playing a gig. My "big" system is a crown power amp, a reverb unit, a 1604, and some speakers on sticks. I rarely bring it to a gig, usually going with a beringer combo acoustic amp(which I admit is the cheapest acoustic amp I've ever owned) One half of one gig paid for the amp.

Never has this lack of gear cost me money in terms of fees charged or gigs lost IMO. Never has a client asked me about the quality of my gear. I ask the agent what the requirements of the gig are, and if they exceed my gear, I tell them to rent.

I know full time players who obsess about gear, and buy the latest greatest stuff. I don't see how they net any money, in fact I know they don't. I know other guys who are full timers who endorse instrument companies-these guys get all the stuff for free. I don't think investing in band gear, as opposed to personal gear, is a good idea. Even personal gear-I've waited until there was a need that justified the purchase. Again, when a band is ready to do work that absolutely requires certain gear, it has a way of appearing. At least IME.

What makes a band more valuable? Anything that improves it in any way.

[MartinC]

Great gear is very important-a good sound makes you play better in addition to sound better. But, it really pales in comparision to musical and performance skills. Everyone knows a great player will still sound great with a crap instrument and a crap amp. As for the op, I don't know anything about subs. I've never been in a band that owned them. I've played through them because the better venues have their own sound.

When I was a kid, I wanted a marshall stack. I asked a more experienced player what he thought. He said save your money, when you NEED a marshall stack it will be there. He was right. When I really needed one, it was provided by the promoter.

I know some kinds of bands need to provide their own PA, but even though I've played a few thousand gigs, no band I've played with since the 80's had even a mid level one. I can't even imagine how much I'd want to charge to buy, set up, maintain, operate, and haul around big PA in addition to playing a gig. My "big" system is a crown power amp, a reverb unit, a 1604, and some speakers on sticks. I rarely bring it to a gig, usually going with a beringer combo acoustic amp(which I admit is the cheapest acoustic amp I've ever owned) One half of one gig paid for the amp.

Never has this lack of gear cost me money in terms of fees charged or gigs lost IMO. Never has a client asked me about the quality of my gear. I ask the agent what the requirements of the gig are, and if they exceed my gear, I tell them to rent.

I know full time players who obsess about gear, and buy the latest greatest stuff. I don't see how they net any money, in fact I know they don't. I know other guys who are full timers who endorse instrument companies-these guys get all the stuff for free. I don't think investing in band gear, as opposed to personal gear, is a good idea. Even personal gear-I've waited until there was a need that justified the purchase. Again, when a band is ready to do work that absolutely requires certain gear, it has a way of appearing. At least IME.

What makes a band more valuable? Anything that improves it in any way.

[Vito Corleone]

To try and get SOMEWHAT back on the OP, I'll suggest what has always worked for me: set long term goals and short term markers you can hit along the way. For a cover band--have maybe a Three Year or a Five-Year plan for your band: "we'd like to be THIS sort of band playing THESE sorts of gigs for THIS sort of money at the end of the term".

And then set smaller goals you can hit along the way: landing a certain gig; getting in with a certain agent; making a certain dollar amount. After every few months, or even after each gig, look at where you are and what you're doing, think about the next step and what things you can do to be a little bit better than you were at the last gig. Maybe that's means tightening up the harmony vocals. Maybe that means working to cut down on the dead-air between tunes. Maybe that means getting that new promo kit finished. Maybe that means buying some new lights. Maybe that means learning a new bunch of tunes.

But ALWAYS keep looking forward and pushing ahead. Because you can ALWAYS be better than you were at the last gig--on every level--and being 'better' is what creates more 'value'. You have to set little goals for yourself, otherwise the "big picture" goal can seem too daunting. But you always have to keep one eye on the big picture as well.

Stagnation and complacency are the enemy.

[Vito Corleone]

To try and get SOMEWHAT back on the OP, I'll suggest what has always worked for me: set long term goals and short term markers you can hit along the way. For a cover band--have maybe a Three Year or a Five-Year plan for your band: "we'd like to be THIS sort of band playing THESE sorts of gigs for THIS sort of money at the end of the term".

And then set smaller goals you can hit along the way: landing a certain gig; getting in with a certain agent; making a certain dollar amount. After every few months, or even after each gig, look at where you are and what you're doing, think about the next step and what things you can do to be a little bit better than you were at the last gig. Maybe that's means tightening up the harmony vocals. Maybe that means working to cut down on the dead-air between tunes. Maybe that means getting that new promo kit finished. Maybe that means buying some new lights. Maybe that means learning a new bunch of tunes.

But ALWAYS keep looking forward and pushing ahead. Because you can ALWAYS be better than you were at the last gig--on every level--and being 'better' is what creates more 'value'. You have to set little goals for yourself, otherwise the "big picture" goal can seem too daunting. But you always have to keep one eye on the big picture as well.

Stagnation and complacency are the enemy.

[mr3lions]

It's interesting to read this thread and the "post your video" thread. It's easy to see what's important to specific bands and who practices what they preach in terms of things like; subs, dress, (the dreaded) music stands and cargo shorts.

No specific point to make here just an observation.

[mr3lions]

It's interesting to read this thread and the "post your video" thread. It's easy to see what's important to specific bands and who practices what they preach in terms of things like; subs, dress, (the dreaded) music stands and cargo shorts.

No specific point to make here just an observation.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Originally Posted by mr3lions

It's interesting to read this thread and the "post your video" thread. It's easy to see what's important to specific bands and who practices what they preach in terms of things like; subs, dress, (the dreaded) music stands and cargo shorts.

No specific point to make here just an observation.

 

Our priorities might be reflected in the videos you see and hear. That assumes we have some sort of control over what does or doesn't happen on stage, at rehearsals, at home, etc.

FWIW, I'm squarely in music-first camp. Give me a choice between signing on with a gigging band with music that doesn't get me excited - song selection or performance - and one that's struggling to get gigs for whatever reason but knocks me out musically, and I'll take the latter every time. . . . . and no I don't expect everyone else to have the same priorities.