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Yep...It matters....not that it should be a suprise


soundcreation

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LOL, interesting, I did not know that existed. But you'd think an extreme concept as such a widely varied substrate would make the end result intuitive even without an actual demo. Heck, I was in gigging neighborhood band that included someone on a thump bucket, so I got to hear the differences between metal and plastic buckets. LOL And yes, the thump bucket had a transducer pickup attached to it as well. But man did I get tired of playing Down On The Corner. :-)

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i could clearly hear the difference, both acoustic and electric versions

 

for me, it's like when there are shootouts between digital and analogue summing... some people say they can't hear a difference and i think "are we listening to the same thing?"... as it's very obvious to me

 

I feel the same way. Perhaps they need better speakers or headphones. :idk:

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Eric Johnson's pretty obsessive about tone... and I know many other excellent guitarists who care about theirs as well.

 

I never said anything about not caring about tone. I used the word "obsess," which is a lot different. I also didn't imply that there was anything wrong with obsessing about tone. And to be clear, for the rest of you readers out there: I definitely heard a difference in the woods as stated in my post above.

 

But I stand behind my point. Most good players I encounter do not obsess about their tone. They care about it, but don't talk endlessly about differences in wood or pickups. Do they appreciate their guitars, amps, and effects? Yes. If you're a good player, you don't have to spend hours configuring your sound. Hell, there was a show at the local amphitheater where everyone played through the same amps. They all sounded great.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing tone, wood, and the like, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But when someone gets on their high horse and says if you can't hear the difference, you have bad ears, that's incredibly stupid. My point is that most of the working guitarists I know don't have that attitude. Treating people like they're lesser than you because they can't hear the difference between mahogany and maple is the best example of cork-sniffing and elitism.

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I never said anything about not caring about tone. I used the word "obsess," which is a lot different. I also didn't imply that there was anything wrong with obsessing about tone. And to be clear, for the rest of you readers out there: I definitely heard a difference in the woods as stated in my post above.

 

But I stand behind my point. Most good players I encounter do not obsess about their tone. They care about it, but don't talk endlessly about differences in wood or pickups. Do they appreciate their guitars, amps, and effects? Yes. If you're a good player, you don't have to spend hours configuring your sound. Hell, there was a show at the local amphitheater where everyone played through the same amps. They all sounded great.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing tone, wood, and the like, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But when someone gets on their high horse and says if you can't hear the difference, you have bad ears, that's incredibly stupid. My point is that most of the working guitarists I know don't have that attitude. Treating people like they're lesser than you because they can't hear the difference between mahogany and maple is the best example of cork-sniffing and elitism.

 

Yeah....anyone who disagrees with you is a "cork sniffer"....lol Cry of the cheap snob...."he's a cork sniffer"...

 

And try a little logic. It's not about "treating people like they are lesser than you". It's about calling morons who BECAUSE they can't hear a difference then go on to think that the ones who can are "cork sniffers". THAT is elitism. As I mentioned before in your other post.

 

One more time...there is a difference between saying "I can't hear a difference" and "I can't hear a difference so therefore anyone who does hear a difference must either be wrong or some kind of arrogant a hole."

 

The first I have no problem with...the second I will call out every single time they open their moronic mouths. If that makes me an "elitist" in your eyes....whoopty f...king doo! I couldn't care less about your opinion of me.

 

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Yeah....anyone who disagrees with you is a "cork sniffer"....lol Cry of the cheap snob...."he's a cork sniffer"...

 

And try a little logic. It's not about "treating people like they are lesser than you". It's about calling morons who BECAUSE they can't hear a difference then go on to think that the ones who can are "cork sniffers". THAT is elitism. As I mentioned before in your other post.

 

One more time...there is a difference between saying "I can't hear a difference" and "I can't hear a difference so therefore anyone who does hear a difference must either be wrong or some kind of arrogant a hole."

 

The first I have no problem with...the second I will call out every single time they open their moronic mouths. If that makes me an "elitist" in your eyes....whoopty f...king doo! I couldn't care less about your opinion of me.

Dude, you're unreal. Putting words in my mouth and then accusing me of being a "cheap snob" even though I never said anything about specific gear or money...

 

Larry-David-Laughter-on-Couch.gif

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Dude, you're unreal. Putting words in my mouth and then accusing me of being a "cheap snob" even though I never said anything about specific gear or money...

 

Larry-David-Laughter-on-Couch.gif

 

Hey! Exactly like calling me a "cork sniffer" "elitist" and "obnoxious" simply because you don't agree with my point. Yeah...I'm "un real". lol

 

Funny how you never seem to address any of the points made. You're the very definition of arrogant because you conclude that what's not important to you shouldn't be important to anyone. You set the standard right? You said it yourself...someone who appreciates the differences in wine must be and arrogant snob! lol..... Not surprised you're blinded to your own hypocrisy, and further try to project those qualities on to others. Sign of a very illogical mind. The very embodiment of the scourge of modern american anti intellectualism.

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Hey! Exactly like calling me a "cork sniffer" "elitist" and "obnoxious" simply because you don't agree with my point. Yeah...I'm "un real". lol

 

Funny how you never seem to address any of the points made. You're the very definition of arrogant because you conclude that what's not important to you shouldn't be important to anyone. You set the standard right? You said it yourself...someone who appreciates the differences in wine must be and arrogant snob! lol..... Not surprised you're blinded to your own hypocrisy, and further try to project those qualities on to others. Sign of a very illogical mind. The very embodiment of the scourge of modern american anti intellectualism.

Your rants are the best, man.

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Your rants are the best, man.

 

gasp! and you did it again! SHOCKING!

 

lol...

 

It's OK...go on....get that hate on for all those wine tasting snobs and those "librarian audiophiles" and all the other groups you've manufactured in your own head to be some sort of "elitists" that just don't understand things like you do! It's never you...it's always them.

 

 

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gasp! and you did it again! SHOCKING!

 

lol...

 

It's OK...go on....get that hate on for all those wine tasting snobs and those "librarian audiophiles" and all the other groups you've manufactured in your own head to be some sort of "elitists" that just don't understand things like you do! It's never you...it's always them.

 

I'm not perfect and never said I knew more than anyone. Its you who has the elitist attitude.

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Before this thread deteriorates too badly I'll add a couple of comments. I'm one of those people who believe that the overall effect of wood species is very small, but certainly does have some contribution. I won't pick nits with this "proof" - the methodology is full of holes, but even with my bad ears, I can hear a difference.

 

Tapping on a piece of wood has been a long standing tradition for acoustic guitar builders - both for selecting which hunk of wood to use but also during the thicknessing and bracing process. The significant thing here is that yes, there are differences between species of wood, but there are also huge differences within a specie, and even within the same log. An experience luthier can use this, most of us just hear the "thunk".

 

There are so many variables in the playing examples (the player holds the guitars very differently when he switches from one to the other) - but, yes, again, there is a difference in sound. The engineer in me wants to see every one of these variables eliminated - that is why in most rigid investigations of guitar sounds we do use "plucking machines" (usually a wire break) and calibrated sound analyzing equipment (usually a transformation into the frequency domain). Most researchers measure the properties of their samples (density, Youngs modulus, speed of sound propagation). We use double blind samples and multiple listeners, trying to find statistical significance. Simple statement here - there are differences in sound from these three "guitars" - I won't read any more into it.

 

Last comment might be a little more significant. These don't represent real guitars. Mahogany is a common guitar body wood and many solid body guitars are build out of it. I can't think of any production solid body maple guitars - it is almost always used as a cap on a mahogany body (does that mean the guitar sounds like the best of mahogany and maple, the worst or something different?). Fir isn't a very common guitar wood (however from the clips it might be the best, eh?). Size and shape may or may not matter.

 

 

 

 

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I always appreciate your posts because you know what you're talking about and act like a gentleman. We could all take a page from your book.

 

it comes OFF a lot better than someone WHO cant type and capitalizes RANDOM words without proper punctuation or formatting ... dont ... forget ... lots ........ of ellipses

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Thanks Buckie.

 

One thing that I should have added to my post was that logically you would think that density of a wood species would have the biggest influence on an electric guitar body - you would think that density would determine how fast particular frequencies were attenuated or dampened. Logically wood with vastly different densities (say balsa and ebony) should sound dramatically different while woods of similar densities should sound similar.

 

I know this isn't true of acoustic guitar woods - there we are more interested in strength to weight and stiffness - Youngs modulus - but certainly density would be a factor too.

 

The nominal density of Honduras mahogany is 590 k/.m^3 while bigleaf maple is 605 (side by side in my handbook, for reference ebony is 1120. My handbook does not give "pressure treated fir" - I suppose I could look it up). Interesting that they sound so different. Or do they?

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