Members Tom Mc1 Posted November 3, 2014 Members Share Posted November 3, 2014 Looks like you have the electrics. Looking forward to the next installment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2014 I like the way you left the neck a bit proud and then sanded back to the fingerboard. Excellent idea. Looks great! Less chance of making any mistakes doing it that way. There are two critical measurements on the neck - width at the nut and the body junctions (16th fret). Lay that out and make the sides arrow straight between them (either with or without binding). Then I can bring the sides of the neck down to meet the f/b and everything should be straight and true. Looks like you have the electrics. Looking forward to the next installment. Now that I have the metal bits and the fretboard fretted I can confirm my neck angle measurements. Clamp the neck in place, put the bridge on a couple of little shims that simulates the posts, and put a straightedge on the frets The end of the straight edge is just a hair above the saddles. There is no relief in the neck so adding a few thousands will raise the string line (action) a hair, the rest of the action adjustment can be developed with the bridge posts. If I want, say, 4/64th at the 12th fret I'll raise the bridge approximately 8/64 (1/8). We'll talk a lot more about this when we do the setup - main thing now is to know it is going to work so I can glue the neck in place. Meanwhile, its time to drill a few more holes in the top. Lay out the controls, the jack and a hole from the electronics cavity to the tailpiece for a ground wire. The ToM bridge is compensated 1/16 inch on the treble side and 2/16 on the bass - the blue tape on the straight edge is the actual scale. A little trick here is to put two 1/4 inch brad point drill bits in the holes - when it is in the right place tap them with a hammer and the centers are marked Drill 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted November 3, 2014 Members Share Posted November 3, 2014 You sir, are a craftsman. --> craftsman [krafts-muh n, krahfts-] noun, plural craftsmen. 1. a person who practices or is highly skilled in a craft; artisan. 2. an artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2014 At this point of the build there is just a whole lot of sanding and scraping going on. I'll talk more about finishing in a day or two, but for right now its time to just do a lot of little details and sand the hell out of everything. The body and neck get sanded to about 220 grit, then dampened with water which raises the grain, then sanded some more. Some tropical hardwoods like mahogany, koa and rosewood have open surface pores - those are the little black lines about an eight of an inch long. In order to get a smooth finish those little pores need to be filled with something - the finish itself will do but it takes a lot of coats which can make it excessively think on other parts of the guitar. Soft woods like spruce and cedar, as well as maple, don't have the surface pores. (Wasn't it some newbie forumite named something like Holloweenie who told us that the reason some guitars sound "fat" was the pores? Or maybe it was the lack of pores, I never did figure out his argument and he sort of disappeared after posting it). Anyway, from a finish standpoint, pores need to be filled. There are lots of products and I don't want to get in an argument here about what is the best - if you have something you like, fine, I'll tell you what I like. I have tried the paste fillers like Martin uses and they work OK on mahogany - certainly easy to apply and gives a little bit of color to wood. But for highly figured wood like koa or flamed mahogany many people like either CA (superglue) or epoxy. I've tried both - CA is really hazardous used like this so I've settled on a product call Zpoxy - its a two part slow setting epoxy with a very slight amber tint and both fills the surface grain but also gets down into the figure of the wood and really makes it pop out. I mix up a little Zpoxy and spread it into the wood grain with a plastic card (AARP keeps sending me these membership cards - they work really well for this). Here is the guitar and neck with a coat of Zpoxy, I'll sand this back to the wood surface and apply one or two more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Posted November 5, 2014 Members Share Posted November 5, 2014 Wow. looking great and very interesting. Do people actually pop into your threads to argue about finishes? If so, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wow. looking great and very interesting. Do people actually pop into your threads to argue about finishes? If so, . Each builder has her own way of doing things and there are many ways to do pore filling and finish. I don't mind discussing different techniques and methods, but it does kind of distract from the build thread. So, for what its worth, I'm going to show how I'm doing this one and explain why. Here is the back with the cavity covers in place and a couple of coats of Zpoxy And the body and headstock With the neck still off the guitar it is a good time to do some preliminary fret dressing - at least then ends. That is a little eraser shield that I used to use when I did drafting (does that date me?) There, the neck is ready to go onto the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted November 7, 2014 Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 The figure on that top, and the book matching, look really good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 7, 2014 Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 Its coming along nicely Freeman. Looks like you have some decent shop tools. That sure makes a difference getting these jobs done. How much do you figure you got wrapped up in tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 Its coming along nicely Freeman. Looks like you have some decent shop tools. That sure makes a difference getting these jobs done. How much do you figure you got wrapped up in tools? Thank you. I have a small work area in my garage - it suffices but isn't ideal. The ventilation, light and heat are all marginal and I don't have good humidity control. I need to cover cars when I do any spraying or sanding - my wife knows that if I had my way I would build a "real shop". But it works, I've built about 15 instruments there. Tools aren't necessary but they do help a lot. I try to compromise but still buy decent tools and I'm pretty anal about keeping them sharp and in good shape. Having the proper tool often makes the job much easier... Over the years I have slowly acquired hand and a few power tools, mostly as needed. With each build I frequently add one tool - something that I wished I had had on the last one. My first few guitars were build from kit (acoustics) - that eliminated the need for bending sides, mitering fretboards, stuff that takes real specialty tools. When I built those I bought the first of my specialty lutherie tools - fret and nut files, a small router and some special bits - probably a five hundred dollar investment. My hand tools are pretty basic - a couple good chisels, a couple more plane, scrapers, rasps - many of these were hand downs from my father and grand father. My most important and most used power tool is a midsized router, called a "laminate trimmer" - I couldn't live without that (a hundred bucks plus 50 more for bits). I added a used band saw from a yard sale (also bought a small table saw which I never use) and a used air compressor - two hundred bucks for everything. I had a Dremel tool which I use exclusively for inlay and a battery drill, if I had to buy those figure a hundred for each. When I started building electrics I added a small drill press and a router table, again a hundred each and another hundred for Forstner and brad point bits. So adding all that up, I would say that you can build a nice kit acoustic (the one I made in 2006 is my daily player) with a $500 investment in tools - less if you rent a router from Home Depot. To scratch build an electric I would want a good router, a band saw and a drill press - lets say 500 more. Depending on how you want to finish the instrument you can go from very little (rattle cans) to a small spray outfit - a few hundred bucks. TAS is the only vice worse than GAS - "Honey, can I have a new router?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 7, 2014 Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 The figure on that top, and the book matching, look really good! ^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 7, 2014 Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 Oh my god, this thread is making me horny, is that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 7, 2014 Members Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thank you. I have a small work area in my garage - it suffices but isn't ideal. The ventilation, light and heat are all marginal and I don't have good humidity control. I need to cover cars when I do any spraying or sanding - my wife knows that if I had my way I would build a "real shop". But it works, I've built about 15 instruments there. Tools aren't necessary but they do help a lot. I try to compromise but still buy decent tools and I'm pretty anal about keeping them sharp and in good shape. Having the proper tool often makes the job much easier... Over the years I have slowly acquired hand and a few power tools, mostly as needed. With each build I frequently add one tool - something that I wished I had had on the last one. My first few guitars were build from kit (acoustics) - that eliminated the need for bending sides, mitering fretboards, stuff that takes real specialty tools. When I built those I bought the first of my specialty lutherie tools - fret and nut files, a small router and some special bits - probably a five hundred dollar investment. My hand tools are pretty basic - a couple good chisels, a couple more plane, scrapers, rasps - many of these were hand downs from my father and grand father. My most important and most used power tool is a midsized router, called a "laminate trimmer" - I couldn't live without that (a hundred bucks plus 50 more for bits). I added a used band saw from a yard sale (also bought a small table saw which I never use) and a used air compressor - two hundred bucks for everything. I had a Dremel tool which I use exclusively for inlay and a battery drill, if I had to buy those figure a hundred for each. When I started building electrics I added a small drill press and a router table, again a hundred each and another hundred for Forstner and brad point bits. So adding all that up, I would say that you can build a nice kit acoustic (the one I made in 2006 is my daily player) with a $500 investment in tools - less if you rent a router from Home Depot. To scratch build an electric I would want a good router, a band saw and a drill press - lets say 500 more. Depending on how you want to finish the instrument you can go from very little (rattle cans) to a small spray outfit - a few hundred bucks. TAS is the only vice worse than GAS - "Honey, can I have a new router?" So what do/or have you done for a living. I know a lot of guys who have done carpentry work of some sort can apply their knowledge to guitar building fairly well. My father put me to work with a hammer and saw by the time I was able to walk and spend a good deal of my early life in and out of construction work during the summers between school years. I gravitated more towards building speaker cabs and electronics but moving to guitars was no big deal. Cant say my first few were very good, but you learn to do better each time. I'm working on my Purple Heart Firebird and will probably post some pics when I get further along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2014 So what do/or have you done for a living. I know a lot of guys who have done carpentry work of some sort can apply their knowledge to guitar building fairly well. . I am a retired (electrical) engineer. I've always loved tinkering with things, but I'm certainly not a carpenter or wood worker - mostly I enjoy learning about my various hobbies. Year ago I raced power boats, which I built. In my middle years I fooled around with bicycle racing so I had to build a couple of bikes (lugged steel frames like the classics from the '70's). I have a couple of car projects as well as a few more things to keep me busy in my old age. I am completely indebted to the people who have asked me to build instrument for them - it covers my costs and lets me go out in the shop and have fun making sawdust. At no point do I want it to every become more than that. btw - one of my next projects will be making an amp - looking forward to both the electronics and the cabinetry. It will keep me out from under my wife's feet and let me buy a few more tools LOL I'm working on my Purple Heart Firebird and will probably post some pics when I get further along. Looking forward to seeing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2014 Moving on, time to smear some glue in the neck pocket and on the tenon and stuff them together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2014 Its going to get really boring here for the next few weeks - sort of like watching paint dry (because that's what we'll be doing). Since I'm not doing a 'burst or anything cool I won't post a lot of pictures - maybe a couple of the start and a couple more when done. For those of you who are following the dialog however, its probably a good time to just give you my feelings about finishing a guitar. First, I've always felt that finishing was one of the three hardest parts of a home build (the others are binding, which obviously can be omitted, and setting the neck, which you can get around by building a bolt on). But you can't avoid putting on some sort of finish, and unfortunately most peoples attempts look pretty amateur. We have a lot of options but we don't get the really good stuff - there are all kinds of oil and spirit varnishes and other stuff you can brush on, but mostly it doesn't do a very good job. The one exception might be Tru Oil - its a resin based gun stock oil and I have heard of people getting acceptable results with it (however I've honestly never seen one). In my opinion, the grail for finishes is still nitrocellulose lacquer, even after a hundred years of use it is still the best finish for a musical instrument, and that is what most small shops (and a few large manufactures) use. The PacRim companies and some domestic ones have all gone to some sort of catalyze urethane, polyurethane, or other high tech finish - those are out of the question for those of us building at home (they are also a bitch to repair, give me lacquer any day). Nitro has many advantages and is possible for the home builder to apply using either rattle cans or a compressor, but it has some very serious disadvantages - it is toxic, explosive, harmful to the environment and to the person using it. It absolutely must be used in an explosion proof paint booth and the user must wear a respirator. Kind of rules it our for us, eh (altho I did finish my first 4 instruments in nitro). There are some new finishes that solve many of nitro's problems, but still give a very lacquer like finish - they are called "water born self-crosslinking urethane/acrylic" - lets call it "water born lacquer" for short. It is thinned with water or denatured alcohol, is not explosive or particularly toxic, and cleans up with warm water. The hardening process "cross links" the molecules into a very hard smooth glossy finish that can be buffed to high gloss just like nitro. I've tried a couple of brands made just for instrument finish and settled on one sold by LMI called "KTM-9". It can be brushed, and if I didn't have a spray gun, that would be my choice over any of the oil or spirit varnishes. But I can spray - I bought a little compressor a few years ago at a yard sale for 50 bucks if I remember, added a filter/regulator and bought a little HPLV gravity feed gun (I like it much better than the syphon gun in the picture) Frankly, by the time I bought enough rattle cans to finish two guitars I'd paid for the spray outfit and it does a much better job. Last comment about finishing - there are many levels of finish and some people say they want, or at least are satisfied with, satin finish, irregular surface, open wood pores, brush marks - you name it. I'm not - my goal is a finish like you would find on a PRS or a high end Gibson, Gretsch or other really nice guitar. I want a perfectly smooth surface, deep finish that doesn't look like the guitar was dipped in plastic, high gloss, and possibly some tint or color or even a nice 'burst. I'm not there yet but that's the goal. So, mask off the fretboard and all the holes, as well as my daughters little tea table from when she was about 7. I put the little pieces - pup rings, truss rod and back covers on a piece of wood and I'll shoot 3 or 4 coats a day for 4 or 5 days or until I feel there is enough finish to do the buffing. Here is the back after day one And I shouldn't show this one - basically to speed the process I shoot the top and headstock, then turn the guitar over and let it rest on a couple of little blocks in the pickup cavities, then I can shoot the back and sides. Well, unfortunately somehow the paper on the table got stuck into the top finish - a bit of a cluster, eh? The solvents in the finish even transferred some of the news type from the paper into the finish - duh. OK, if you don't hear from me for a while its because I'm out in the shop watching paint dry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 10, 2014 Members Share Posted November 10, 2014 ^ That's too bad. Sorry for the frustration. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted November 10, 2014 Members Share Posted November 10, 2014 btw - one of my next projects will be making an amp - looking forward to both the electronics and the cabinetry. It will keep me out from under my wife's feet and let me buy a few more tools LOL what kind of amp will you built? everything from scratch or will you use a kit at least for the electronics, or will you also design your own electronics? i built myself a BYOC Tweed royal (a tweed deluxe, champ, princeton hybrid), a builder from ireland i found over the byoc forum built me nice cabinet, so i only did the soldering of the kit which is pretty straight forward with the great instructions from BYOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tom Mc1 Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 There are some really cool low wattage amp kits out there. But my question is how long does it take for the finish to cure before you can polish and install the electronics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 what kind of amp will you built? everything from scratch or will you use a kit at least for the electronics, or will you also design your own electronics? i built myself a BYOC Tweed royal (a tweed deluxe, champ, princeton hybrid), a builder from ireland i found over the byoc forum built me nice cabinet, so i only did the soldering of the kit which is pretty straight forward with the great instructions from BYOC I'll probably build a kit - just like me first guitars were kits - that will save punching a chassis and making pc boards (or something similar). I've been looking at a little 1/6/12 watter from Ampmaker.com - only problem is that he is retooling and its not currently available. That does give me time to look at alternatives and I would appreciate suggestions. I'll check out this BYOC. edit - I did and they are out of stock. Fortunately I've got lots of time, any more ideas? There are some really cool low wattage amp kits out there. But my question is how long does it take for the finish to cure before you can polish and install the electronics? Again, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have an old 30 watt Gibson tube amp right now but it has some problems - I want a low watt amp for home use that I can overdrive if needed, altho what I mostly play is vintage blues and jazzy stuff. The finish will cure a minimum of two weeks, longer if I can be patient. Ideally a month but that rarely happens LOL. That, of course, is one of the advantages of the catalyzed finishes - once they kick off they are hard as glass and you can buff the heck out of them. I've told the owner that he will have his guitar by Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members travisty Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 You could try the bottlehead.com 'Tode. The bottlehead crew are nice to deal with, responsive, and know how to make tube amps. The forum is full of helpful people too. They also write a really mean manual. There are several videos posted there of the amp in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted November 11, 2014 Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 regarding BYOC, just contact them via email and asked if and when they get restocked, they are really nice and pretty fast in answering questions you can look at the discussion forum to get supporthttp://byocelectronics.com/board/viewforum.php?f=49&sid=c81bce8ad9e7787bac47d686c5cecba9 yeah there is even less traffic than here, but once you pop a questions the mods will have a look and for the amp built most of the questions are already answered in the existing threads in my research for a kit, BYOC was the cheapest and i built some pedals of them before and their instructions are really really great...did look at others e.g http://www.tubeampdoctor.com but all you get is a schematic, a wiring plan and a parts list and the rest you have to sort out yourself, which makes it pretty difficult if you don't have lots of experience in tube amp building and repair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2014 Thanks guys - I'll need to do some research. I friend has a little Quilter amp and I was considering buying one of them, but the idea of building my own appeals to me. I appreciate the input and links. Update on the guitar - its got nine coats and looking pretty good. Somewhere around 15 should be plenty, I'll report back in a couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 Here is what nine coats looks like Sanded back to 320/400 grit between coats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted November 12, 2014 Members Share Posted November 12, 2014 WOW nothing else to say just WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 16, 2014 Members Share Posted November 16, 2014 Bump!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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