Gibson not retaining its value....

[smorgdonkey]

 

I too can counter his claims of the economy still being stuck. My company had the best first quarter its had in a long time, and demand for our products is still going up. We can't work enough hours to fill the orders right now. That's a FAR cry from how we were a year or two years ago. Don't buy the gloomy bull{censored} - things are coming back.

 

 

That's not indicative of the bulk of the workforce. Many good paying jobs have disappeared and the only thing available for those people to work are service industry jobs at minimum wage. Unemployment numbers don't tell the tale because even if someone is employed part time they are still considered employed and if someone gives up looking for work they are not considered unemployed statistically speaking. Government spin.

[Arr0wHead]

 

My Gibson SG is worth $599 in trade. The guitar cost $1199 last year.

 

 

It's not the economy, or the guitar. In fact, nothing is wrong there. Music stores typically give 50% of what they can sell an instrument for in a trade-in. It's been that way since I first started playing in the 80's. Which means you paid $1000, they pay you $599, they sell it for $1000. No depreciation at all, which is a lot better than many other guitars these days.

 

Meanwhile it IS a tough market right now, and can be hard to find a buyer. Be patient. But I really don't see any issue or devaluation if you're getting a 60% trade-in at the store. That's pretty darned good.

[RaVenCAD]

 

That's not indicative of the bulk of the workforce. Many good paying jobs have disappeared and the only thing available for those people to work are service industry jobs at minimum wage. Unemployment numbers don't tell the tale because even if someone is employed part time they are still considered employed and if someone gives up looking for work they are not considered unemployed statistically speaking. Government spin.

 

 

You aren't wrong, but you aren't completely right either. My company makes components for other companies that they use in their consumer products. Lawnmowers, ATVs, farm equipment, Bobcats, various utility vehicles. All kinds of stuff that doesn't get replaced very often in a bad economy. Well, it's getting replaced now, replaced in such volume that my company is weeks behind in delivery, which tells me.......... things aren't as bad as "they" want us to think. At least in my industry. YMMV.

 

As for why the Gibson in the OP isn't worth much, it's an SG, and not one of the highend models. You buy the lowend version of anything, your resale is going to suffer.

[rchiav]

 

Its not Gibson, its the market. And contrary to the cliche people like to throw out there - its a buyer's market, its not. Buyers want dirt cheap and sellers aren't willing to go that low, so nothing moves. its not a buyer's market, its a frozen market. I consider resale not because I'm trying to make a buck, but because I make a lot of impulsive GAS purchases and often rely on flipping something to cover it. In the past, the habit supported itself. Not really any more. I'm selling for less, and have to wait a lot longer before something sells. Unless you have the right item with the right buyer, you need to be very patient, or willing to take a significant hit on the sale price.

 

 

I've just recently start looking at some nicer used guitars and and there are so many people asking close to new price. I've even seen some people asking the same as MAP + shipping for a 2 year old guitar. It hasn't looked like a buyers market to me.

[epi56ebony]

 

I've just recently start looking at some nicer used guitars and and there are so many people asking close to new price. I've even seen some people asking the same as MAP + shipping for a 2 year old guitar. It hasn't looked like a buyers market to me.

 

 

Someone said it earlier, buyers want it super cheap and sellers overprice/over value their gear.

 

You've got to find that price point where it's hard for a buyer to say that's too low, gotta get it.

 

Too many sellers are stuck on the idea of trying to get back every single dime they spent on the guitar as if they've been 'renting' it for free.

 

one more thing, upgrades don't mean {censored} no matter how much you think they do.

 

As I stated earlier I am selling on CL. Sold the shell pink hoppus bass for 400 yesterday. Paid 450 for it. I'm happy. I now have 400 I didn't have before. I'm close to 10K in CL sales for the past 2 months.

[HanSolo]

They get between $700 and $1000 for clean ones on eBay. It baffles me why anyone would take a chance on a used, sight unseen one for a couple hundred less than a new one.

[smorgdonkey]

 

My company makes components for other companies that they use in their consumer products. Lawnmowers, ATVs, farm equipment, Bobcats, various utility vehicles. All kinds of stuff that doesn't get replaced very often in a bad economy. Well, it's getting replaced now, replaced in such volume that my company is weeks behind in delivery, which tells me.......... things aren't as bad as "they" want us to think. At least in my industry. YMMV.

 

 

Perhaps the parts are being replaced instead of people buying new units.

 

I'm glad that there are a few industries doing well but I see many that are living down to the hype.

[TattooedCarrot]

^^^ Unless those parts are being used as replacement for repairs? My instrument repair guy said ever since the economy took a {censored} his business has been booming because more and more people are fixing up and repairing their current stuff rather than just buying new stuff.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Perhaps the parts are being replaced instead of people buying new units. I'm glad that there are a few industries doing well but I see many that are living down to the hype.

 

 

No, the parts only come on new units. If they want them replaced, they buy sexier aftermarket stuff that we also make, and that is also in much higher demand than the last couple of years.

 

To give you a little more hope, my company is very diverse. We're in construction materials, electrical systems for jets, food service stuff (like trays, cups, plates, etc..) and every single one of them are up compared to last year. So while I'm not saying that everything is rosey, it's not as bad as the politicians trying to get Obama kicked out of office want us to believe.

[nicholai]

 

No, the parts only come on new units. If they want them replaced, they buy sexier aftermarket stuff that we also make, and that is also in much higher demand than the last couple of years. To give you a little more hope, my company is very diverse. We're in construction materials, electrical systems for jets, food service stuff (like trays, cups, plates, etc..) and every single one of them are up compared to last year. So while I'm not saying that everything is rosey, it's not as bad as the politicians trying to get Obama kicked out of office want us to believe.

 

 

Can you pm me the name if it's traded? Lol.

Yeah, I've had it with the Obama bashing, he's been a good president in the face of what he had to deal with. Regardless, the Repubs have put up jack {censored} that can touch him in credibility to oppose.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Can you pm me the name if it's traded? Lol. Yeah, I've had it with the Obama bashing, he's been a good president in the face of what he had to deal with. Regardless, the Repubs have put up jack {censored} that can touch him in credibility to oppose.

 

 

You've got a PM..

 

And no, Obama hasn't been a good President. He's accomplished very little that he claimed he'd do. Sure, he's got the limpest-dicked congress in the history of this country, but a good President would find a way. The little bit he has managed to accomplish is wrong on so many levels. His health plan is quite simply, the Devil. He will go down in history as the Food Stamp King, and if he is re-elected (he will be, cuz the Republicans are all a joke) people will be fighting in the streets for food.

 

Yes, I'm a diehard Republican, but even I can see that this two party system is broken beyond repair.

[-=Pennywise=-]

Wish I could go back in time around the mid 80's when even used les pauls were cheap as dirt because of everyone wanting super strats with floyds on them.

[BG76]

 

Wish I could go back in time around the mid 80's when even used les pauls were cheap as dirt because of everyone wanting super strats with floyds on them.

 

 

I don't remember Les Paul guitars being 'cheap as dirt' in the 80s. There were still quite a few people using them. In 1985 a new Les Paul Standard was 800.00. That would be about $1700.00 today. A Les Paul Traditional (plain top, pretty similar specs) is about that today. A Flame Top LP was $1600 - about $3400 today.

 

Sure, they were a little cheaper on the used market but people made less money, less people used credit cards and without the internet people were more likely to buy what they liked as opposed to being into the old stuff.

 

I bought a lot of my older guitars in the late 80s/early 90s but then prices got crazy.

 

If you look at what Gibson is offering today Henry J has really done a great job of offering nice guitars at a lot of different price points - all made in the USA. There were a lot fewer 'budget' Gibson guitars in the 80s (which in my mind was a good thing) but a Studio was $699 (about $1400) back then and today a gloss Studio is $1300 - not that different.

 

If you wanted a 50s Burst in the 80s it was cheaper then it is today but it was still a lot of money. If one cost you 10k back then that was still the equiv of about 40k - a lot cheaper then today but not something the average person would have bought.

 

Vs, SGs, etc... most of them were about the same price as they are today (if you figure for inflation).

[elsupermanny14]

 

You've got a PM.. And no, Obama hasn't been a good President. He's accomplished very little that he claimed he'd do. Sure, he's got the limpest-dicked congress in the history of this country, but a good President would find a way. The little bit he has managed to accomplish is wrong on so many levels. His health plan is quite simply, the Devil. He will go down in history as the Food Stamp King, and if he is re-elected (he will be, cuz the Republicans are all a joke) people will be fighting in the streets for food. Yes, I'm a diehard Republican, but even I can see that this two party system is broken beyond repair.

 

 

That's funny because I'm a democrat and I feel EXACTLY the same way you do about everything you just said. Too bad we are not the ones in congress...

[STRANDMAN]

Nothing is holding its value these days. I've decided to take everything I have and buy stocks in beer, gambling, and pornography companies since they seem to be the only three businesses we have left in America that are still viable.

[gdsmithtx]

He will go down in history as the Food Stamp King, and if he is re-elected (he will be, cuz the Republicans are all a joke) people will be fighting in the streets for food.

 

[WRGKMC]

 

You aren't wrong, but you aren't completely right either. My company makes components for other companies that they use in their consumer products. Lawnmowers, ATVs, farm equipment, Bobcats, various utility vehicles. All kinds of stuff that doesn't get replaced very often in a bad economy. Well, it's getting replaced now, replaced in such volume that my company is weeks behind in delivery, which tells me.......... things aren't as bad as "they" want us to think. At least in my industry. YMMV. As for why the Gibson in the OP isn't worth much, it's an SG, and not one of the highend models. You buy the lowend version of anything, your resale is going to suffer.

 

 

You must have a pretty good bump each spring in that business.

When the grass starts growing early, it will be reflected in those kinds of sales.

Its summer in Houston already. Last year with the Droubt, I'd sure you had a tougher time then previous years.

We've had good rains here in Houston and since all the warm rain trains north east from here I can see that helping

with your business.

 

My company deals with copiers, printers, computers, cameras, and other types of business and consumer equipment.

Nearly evey company in the US uses the product and its not dependant on seasonal trends of any kind.

As I said, you wont be able to verify what I'd seeing for "three months".

In other words, I'm seeing the trends three months before many others see them.

It takes that long for the other companies to post their growth numbers.

 

March numbers should be out fairly soon and you'll see the month starting off OK but taking a big drop by the end of the month.

I dont see it going any lower or higher at the moment. Its simply dropped back to where it was.

 

I do see numbers on a national basis, not just regional so I do have a clue to what I'm talking about.

When things are cranking the business immediately bumps way up. When I see it staying that way for a quarter

I know when the economy is booming no matter what the talking heads in the media and government have to say.

You cant fake nor hide the numbers in my business. When "all" business crank up production, it hits immediately.

[-=Pennywise=-]

I don't remember Les Paul guitars being 'cheap as dirt' in the 80s. There were still quite a few people using them. In 1985 a new Les Paul Standard was 800.00. That would be about $1700.00 today. A Les Paul Traditional (plain top, pretty similar specs) is about that today. A Flame Top LP was $1600 - about $3400 today. Sure, they were a little cheaper on the used market but people made less money, less people used credit cards and without the internet people were more likely to buy what they liked as opposed to being into the old stuff. I bought a lot of my older guitars in the late 80s/early 90s but then prices got crazy. If you look at what Gibson is offering today Henry J has really done a great job of offering nice guitars at a lot of different price points - all made in the USA. There were a lot fewer 'budget' Gibson guitars in the 80s (which in my mind was a good thing) but a Studio was $699 (about $1400) back then and today a gloss Studio is $1300 - not that different. If you wanted a 50s Burst in the 80s it was cheaper then it is today but it was still a lot of money. If one cost you 10k back then that was still the equiv of about 40k - a lot cheaper then today but not something the average person would have bought. Vs, SGs, etc... most of them were about the same price as they are today (if you figure for inflation).

 

 

I'm talking USED market here boy, settle down already. lol ! I've seen a lot of sorry people sell their les pauls for dirt cheap because of the hair band superstrat phase of the 80's. I even managed to score a mint Les Paul Standard for $250, the guy used the cash to fund a Peavey Vandenburg.

[BG76]

I'm talking USED market here boy, settle down already. lol ! I've seen a lot of sorry people sell their les pauls for dirt cheap because of the hair band superstrat phase of the 80's. I even managed to score a mint Les Paul Standard for $250, the guy used the cash to fund a Peavey Vandenburg.

 

Yeah, because none of the hair bands used Les Paul guitars except for Hanoi Rocks, Seduce, Y&T, Cinderella, Guns and Roses, Faster Pussycat, Enough Z Nuff, Jackyl, Kix, Def Lepard, Great White, Coverdale-Page, Dio, Trixtor, Sleeze Beeze, Motley Crue, Spinal Tap, Armored Saint, Badlands, Poison, Britney Fox, Randy Rhodes, Lizzie Grey (London), Slaughter, etc....

[-=Pennywise=-]

Yeah, because none of the hair bands used Les Paul guitars except for Hanoi Rocks, Seduce, Y&T, Cinderella, Guns and Roses, Faster Pussycat, Enough Z Nuff, Jackyl, Kix, Def Lepard, Great White, Coverdale-Page, Dio, Trixtor, Sleeze Beeze, Motley Crue, Spinal Tap, Armored Saint, Badlands, Poison, Britney Fox, Randy Rhodes, Lizzie Grey (London), Slaughter, etc....

 

I didn't say the LP were never used in that time period, I sense sarcasm..... relax already.

[soundcreation]

I didn't say the LP were never used in that time period, I sense sarcasm..... relax already.

 

Sure some 50's Les Pauls were more within reach by the average person in the 80's (If I recall they were still pretty pricey by the standards of those days) but, you have to remember though....the early to mid 80's the baby boomers still really didn't have their money to burn yet. When they finally did in the 90's that's when you saw the ridiculous prices begin to happen. And because there was limited availability of really old ones.....it created this vicious cycle of mostly dealers selling amongst themselves or to the few ultra rich who would drop over 150K on a guitar.

 

Those days are ancient history now though....and even the 59's are coming down in price. 50's guitars are going to continue to drop in my opinion. Boomers are going to die and their 50's guitars will come back on to the market. Xer's and Yers like those guitars but they don't LOVE those guitars in the same way. And there aren't that many of us in comparison. And the guitar is not the "status" instrument it used to be. All these factors will cause those guitars to become fairly affordable in the next twenty years.

 

And it's also going to cause the "reissue" custom shop market guitars of the past twenty years...that sold to all the boomers who couldn't afford the real thing...to blow up like worse than the housing market.

 

My prediction is that in 20 years you'll be able to buy used custom shop gibsons for ridiculously low prices. Way cheaper relatively..than 50's gear was in the 80's.

[Bbreaker]

The best way to buy high ticket gear is to buy used.

[wanderoo222]

I'm looking for a gibson sg standard. Most of the used listings I see are asking $800 or better(some even w/out a case). I can get a new one with a case from MF for 1199-15%. no shipping no tax. WTF? I'm not trying to rip anyone off. Sellers are going to have to wake up to the reality of the used market. I don't see this changing even as the economy improves. Buyers are much smarter and have more info at their fingertips these days.

[Guitar Heel]

Could have sworn we already had a forum for political discourse.

 

Oh, and SGs bring the