Gibson not retaining its value....

[67mike]

Without getting too political, you should look at the economic factors over the past 12 months. Everything is up. That doesn't mean that there aren't people still suffering, but as a whole the economy is recovering, albeit at a slow rate. Here's a good place to start: http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0622_metro_monitor.aspx

 

 

It is an illusion. The smoke will clear soon, but for most it is too late.

[WRGKMC]

I work for a major worldwide company thats a household name that supplies business equipment to all the other companies across the nation.

The techs who work for the company service those customers on a daily basis. "If' business were recovering we'd be the first to see it because

companies would be replacing their old equipment when their leases expire. They are only replacing what thay absolutely have to and hanging onto

gear long past the time when they would normally trade it in.

 

Any news you hear about the economy coming back or hiring going up is simply vodoo numbers being proped up during an election season.

If the customers were using their business equipment heavily I'd be the first to know about it, The costs and parts to maintain it would take

a big jump. That usually occurs a month or two before the numbers are reflected in the media.

 

There was a little bump during christmas that polititicians made a big deal about but it was short lived. That occurs every year when companies

have a holiday season selling spike. In fact the companies have been dropping off using their gear for the

past two months, so their busines has been dropping or treading water. (UPS deliveries are down too. UPS is a direct reflection of commerce)

So any expectations of things on a rebound are unfounded. I think gas prices are going to keep it that way for a long time too.

[67mike]

I work for a major worldwide company thats a household name that supplies business equipment to all the other companies across the nation. The techs who work for the company service those customers on a daily basis. "If' business were recovering we'd be the first to see it because companies would be replacing their old equipment when their leases expire. They are only replacing what thay absolutely have to and hanging onto gear long past the time when they would normally trade it in. Any news you hear about the economy coming back or hiring going up is simply vodoo numbers being proped up during an election season. If the customers were using their business equipment heavily I'd be the first to know about it, The costs and parts to maintain it would take a big jump. That usually occurs a month or two before the numbers are reflected in the media. There was a little bump during christmas that polititicians made a big deal about but it was short lived. That occurs every year when companies have a holiday season selling spike. In fact the companies have been dropping off using their gear for the past two months, so their busines has been dropping or treading water. (UPS deliveries are down too. UPS is a direct reflection of commerce) So any expectations of things on a rebound are unfounded. I think gas prices are going to keep it that way for a long time too.

 

 

 

It is even simpler than that......all you need to do is: look at the cost of your essentials. What are they doing folks? Is bread, milk, veggies, gasoline, electricity, getting cheaper or more expensive? Are prices rising at your local restaurants? etc.....

 

Inflation is occuring it is evident all around us as the prices move up as the businesses try to pass on their increased expenses onto consumers to keep their normal profit margins.

 

The value of our dollar is rapidly declining....look at prices over the past 3 years...you sure as hell cannot buy as much groceries for your money...atleast where I live anyway.

 

In the near future, many of us will not be able to afford anything but bare essentials, the only question is how many months before the {censored} hits the fan.

[Guitar Heel]

 

pizza paddles

 

 

hahaha

[niceguy]

I don't really think this is an indicator of Gibson actually declining in value.

 

I think it's a symptom of our current "bargain, budget" economy.

[straycat113]

I first picked up a guitar at 11 and honestly never thought about resale value until I hit my 40's, I am now 50.I went to my first guitar show 3 years ago up in Philly and bought a copy of the Blue Book. It seemed everyone who had a guitar to sell to a dealer at the show out came the Blue Book, though it did not seem to be relevant on any guitars they sold lol. Well this book did open my eyes quite a bit to how a group of guys set the market on a guitars value. At the time Fender had just upped their prices and say a guitar like a Clapton or Beck Strat was selling for $2,200. According to the book those guitars new were $2,200 but the minute you walk out the door the guitar can never be new again and drops to Mint which now puts the value at $1,600! If you are unfortunate to get a nice ding in it by accident that first day hack off another $300! So in one day you can lose $900 off the value of a guitar you just bought new -Insane.

 

I really do not understand with the economic disaster we are in how anyone can go and buy a new guitar when you can find just about whatever you are looking for in conditions from NOS to Mint on the used market while saving a huge chunk of change. Sure there are the exceptions and certain guitars that it is best to go new if it is a CS build or LE edition you really want bad. I am specking out a Suhr Standard I want built to my exact specs and the only way to go is new. But I see way too many guys go buy a brand new guitar that they are then looking to move in a month which is mind boggling. I sold 5 guitars back in 2010 to purchase a two guitar deal and did not lose a dime considering they were all about a decade old and I take good care of my gear as much as I play the sh!t out of them.

 

It is a total buyers market out there and for those who are smart and patient they are going to find what they want and save a good amount of scratch doing so. Also the bigger the company- Fender- Gibson- the easier it is to do. It gets a lot harder if you are into smaller companies or models that are discontinued as the listings get a lot smaller- but it still can be done. Personally any guitar I have bought new has always been with me a few years at the minimum, then why are you buying it?

[Canadian Jeff]

Haven't bought anything new in 2 years. Someone else can handle the majority of the depreciation, thanks.

[jhorne]

 

I really do not understand with the economic disaster we are in how anyone can go and buy a new guitar...

 

 

Good deals on new guitars can be found if you're patient.

 

In the last year or so I've purchased the following new:

 

Gibson ES-335 $1612 @ amazon.com (MAP $2749) - sold recently for $2200

Gibson Double Cut P-90 $899 @ music123.com (MAP $1999) - sold recently for $1200

Gibson 57RI Chambered $2000 @ music123.com (MAP $3899) - sold for $2400

 

Deals like that are few and far between, but they do exist on new guitars.

[Bbreaker]

So it can be worth even less?

Paid $325.00 for my 1962 SG/LP Jr around 1989/90. Got an original hardshell yellow lined case with it.

I'm sure it's value has increased since.

[deanmass]

I'll give you $326 plus shipping for it right now . Honestly, that is a sweet little SG.

[Kid Klash]

As others have mentioned, the current economy is the problem, not your SG. Hang in there!

[epi56ebony]

Well if you are selling something used shouldn't it go for less than you paid for it (generally) and isn't there some monetary value for the time you owned the guitar and the pleasure it has given you. For example I sold my Santana PRS SE for 200, but I kept the bag which I felt was worth 50 because it's a fantastic gigbag. I paid 400 for it. I did lose more than I thought I would but still I feel I got (or at least tell myself) $150 playing time on it.

 

Well, I've recently sold a lot of guitars on CL because I decided I needed room and I had to stop being guitar hoarder. Here's what I've gotten. I'm in Los Angeles too where there's more gear for sale.

 

Rogue Blue Sparkle guitar $50

Rickenbacker Jetglo 620 w/case $1000

Fender Blue Flower Telecaster w/offbrand case $500

Fender Blue Flower Strat w/offbrand case $600

Epiphone Slash Goldtop with case $600

PRS SE Santana Hardtail no bag $200

Fender 50s Road Worn with bag $400

Fender Jaguar HH no bag (wanted it for my jazzmaster) $300 (bought it for 300 sold the other one for 600! bought MF economic meltdown sale)

Fender Blackout Telecaster $300

Gibson SG Faded Yellow with Gibson HSC $500

Fender Late 80s Strat in Blue (Made In Japan on headstock) $350

Fender Jaguar Bass no bag $400 (paid 500 for the bass g-dec amp and bag. made a $20 profit. Sold amp for 100, bass 400, bag 20! big wup!)

 

tomorrow there might be a sale on my Gibson Les paul DC (MF exclusive w/2 vol knobs) Mark Hoppus bass shell pink and RW 60s strat in white.

 

I also traded my D-28 2005 for a Gibson J-45 2010 so it was like getting a new guitar!! I wanted the short scale of the gibson and the other guy was already tired of his 45. win win all the way around.

 

I'm very happy with all of the sales. I dealt on many of the items (and priced them higher too knowing people get that warm and fuzzy feeling inside if they can haggle me down 100 bucks)

 

I'm probably 20 to 25% under breakeven but I had fun with those guitars and I'm very happy with the sales.

 

Only bad taste was the Ric, the guy was impossible at points but I would not budge from 1000 (I gave him a 200 discount - -ha ha but I paid 1050 for it. so I know I got $50's worth of pleasure from it)

[soundcreation]

Paid $325.00 for my 1962 SG/LP Jr around 1989/90. Got an original hardshell yellow lined case with it.

 

 

I understand that...and that is a good deal for you.

 

But adjust the original price for inflation and you're around 1500 bucks...a quick check on ebay shows people TRYING to get anywhere from 1000 to 6000 grand for them. Some very nice ones for around 2 grand. I don't think many are selling. Especially the ones above 2k. So really they are not that far off a break even price. Someone thinking that is an 'investment'...ie...going to MAKE money on it....well....might as well just by a bond or something.

 

And with all due respect...your guitar is still riding the white wash of the crashed wave of the vintage bubble. You did pick a good time to buy...back when you bought it people didn't really want gibsons...those were great deals to get. But you were implying buying a new gibson and holding it for 20 years, it would increase in value. Your guitar is limited in numbers using old wood people want. New gibsons have absolutely nothing in terms of rarity or attributes that people are going to want in 20 years.

 

If you were interested in selling for value, if I were you I'd sell it now before things drop even more.

[GibsonVMan]

What ...$599 at GC? ...They don't pay much anyways. Name of the game is profit- just like a pawn shop.

 

I see them at around $1100 new and the norm is $700-800 on the local Craigslist here. They do sell to but might take a while in the soft market times of today. I think the resell value is pretty decent. Buy an Epiphone LP for about $600 and then turn around to sell. You are lucky to get $250.

 

All of my Gibsons are worth what I paid and them some. The ones that I have parted with, I lost little on them. After they get a little age on them, some of them gain value.

 

Not likely that you are gonna get 100% of what paid back. Unless somebody really really wants it!!

[frankthomson]

haha...sry....NEW SGs dont hold their value

and im not a basher, i own 4 SG's, having owned as many as 20

Yeah, never.

[frankthomson]

If it makes you feel any better, just for S&Gs I asked what GC would give me for my 2005 limited LP standard. I paid almost $3k for it, they offered me $750. It's almost like pawning, though maybe a little better. They're gonna offer you around half of what they can sell it for to recover the cost of keeping it in the store and turning a hefty profit.

 

 

...............ouch

[hardtdc]

 

I work for a major worldwide company thats a household name that supplies business equipment to all the other companies across the nation. The techs who work for the company service those customers on a daily basis. "If' business were recovering we'd be the first to see it because companies would be replacing their old equipment when their leases expire. They are only replacing what thay absolutely have to and hanging onto gear long past the time when they would normally trade it in. Any news you hear about the economy coming back or hiring going up is simply vodoo numbers being proped up during an election season. If the customers were using their business equipment heavily I'd be the first to know about it, The costs and parts to maintain it would take a big jump. That usually occurs a month or two before the numbers are reflected in the media. There was a little bump during christmas that polititicians made a big deal about but it was short lived. That occurs every year when companies have a holiday season selling spike. In fact the companies have been dropping off using their gear for the past two months, so their busines has been dropping or treading water. (UPS deliveries are down too. UPS is a direct reflection of commerce) So any expectations of things on a rebound are unfounded. I think gas prices are going to keep it that way for a long time too.

 

 

Not going to sit and argue all day with this but I know differently, at least in my part of the country. Reason being is that I work in the development field. That is where you always know when the pulse of the economy is going up or down. Right now it is slowly starting to trend upwards again in our area (mid-atlantic region). Even design firms are hiring again because developers are getting projects underway because lending institutions are finally starting to loosen the purse strings where they wouldn't several months ago unless you were willing to fund 60-70% of the operation.

Bottom line: when housing and commercial development is starting to grow, the rest of the economy is growing also. When it stops, the rest of the nation stops with it.

[TattooedCarrot]

Its not Gibson, its the market. And contrary to the cliche people like to throw out there - its a buyer's market, its not. Buyers want dirt cheap and sellers aren't willing to go that low, so nothing moves. its not a buyer's market, its a frozen market.

 

I consider resale not because I'm trying to make a buck, but because I make a lot of impulsive GAS purchases and often rely on flipping something to cover it. In the past, the habit supported itself. Not really any more. I'm selling for less, and have to wait a lot longer before something sells. Unless you have the right item with the right buyer, you need to be very patient, or willing to take a significant hit on the sale price.

[mschafft]

Are there too many guitars out there?

[smorgdonkey]

 

And contrary to the cliche people like to throw out there - its a buyer's market, its not. Buyers want dirt cheap and sellers aren't willing to go that low, so nothing moves. its not a buyer's market, its a frozen market.

 

 

Many people won't go that low but people who want or need to sell definitely go low - and those people are also many.

 

I will agree that there is a huge segment of the market that is frozen.

[Vibroluxman]

I bought my LP classic used for $1250 a few years ago. I see them regularly going between $1400-1700 on ebay now. My resale seems fine. Even the new price on it (2003) was $1400.

[Angry Tele]

my 52RI was $1300 in 2007, I could probably get $1000 for it now if I find the right buyer. read: wait(its got $300 pickups in it-I know that might not mean much but to the right buyer it will)

 

If I didnt want to wait I could get $800-900 easily Id imagine.

 

the problem is sam ash. theyre not gonna give you fair value on a trade in.

 

I see sgs going for $800-1000 with hardshell cases.

[Guitar Heel]

 

its not a buyer's market, its a frozen market.

 

 

I completely agree. The starting bids/reserves on eBay are ridiculous right now. People either think their guitars are worth much more than the economy dictates, or they need the money so badly that they can't sell for less. Either way, good deals are hard to come by these days.

[RaVenCAD]

 

Not going to sit and argue all day with this but I know differently, at least in my part of the country. Reason being is that I work in the development field. That is where you always know when the pulse of the economy is going up or down. Right now it is slowly starting to trend upwards again in our area (mid-atlantic region). Even design firms are hiring again because developers are getting projects underway because lending institutions are finally starting to loosen the purse strings where they wouldn't several months ago unless you were willing to fund 60-70% of the operation. Bottom line: when housing and commercial development is starting to grow, the rest of the economy is growing also. When it stops, the rest of the nation stops with it.

 

 

I too can counter his claims of the economy still being stuck. My company had the best first quarter its had in a long time, and demand for our products is still going up. We can't work enough hours to fill the orders right now. That's a FAR cry from how we were a year or two years ago. Don't buy the gloomy bull{censored} - things are coming back.

[nicholai]

I work for a major worldwide company thats a household name that supplies business equipment to all the other companies across the nation. The techs who work for the company service those customers on a daily basis. "If' business were recovering we'd be the first to see it because companies would be replacing their old equipment when their leases expire. They are only replacing what thay absolutely have to and hanging onto gear long past the time when they would normally trade it in. Any news you hear about the economy coming back or hiring going up is simply vodoo numbers being proped up during an election season. If the customers were using their business equipment heavily I'd be the first to know about it, The costs and parts to maintain it would take a big jump. That usually occurs a month or two before the numbers are reflected in the media. There was a little bump during christmas that polititicians made a big deal about but it was short lived. That occurs every year when companies have a holiday season selling spike. In fact the companies have been dropping off using their gear for the past two months, so their busines has been dropping or treading water. (UPS deliveries are down too. UPS is a direct reflection of commerce) So any expectations of things on a rebound are unfounded. I think gas prices are going to keep it that way for a long time too.

 

 

I'm just glad you are not blaming our current Pres. Of course he has something to do with the country, but really, every day for 3 years (since before he started) it's been nothing but "Obama's ruining everything!", and all I've seen is Republicans dead set on that being put into the history books. It's disgusting and for once we shouldn't be proud to be Americans, calling women on birthcontrol sluts and trying to stop disabled people from getting healthcare? WTF. History will judge, not fox news.

 

Two friends have bought new cars this week, and they are both about 30. I think things are all right. My numbers never dropped, but, I'm not so blind as to see others did. This is an artificial crash, people are racist and afraid of Obama, or bad business people and afraid of Obama and holding off doing anything, crashing the economy, it's old now (Yes, you are correcct in Oil set this wwhole thing off in the beginning technically, no country can take a doubling of costs in a year). If they do it for another 4 years, i will never vote Repub again.

 

/end rant

 

As to guitars. Anything used is worth half if it's not a collectors item. I'm sorry we are all losing money. Too much good stuff out there. We overloved the guitar.

 

I almost forgot why I posted, it'snot HCEG if there isn't a thread complaining about Gibson. Feels like home again.