Members Ravelleman Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 As an example, I have both a MIM Cobain Jag (c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 I hope you are correct, but logicaly, I can see no other fate for the US then to become China's plaything......they own the US. What exactly is it that you think they own? Truth is, its American debt in which they hope to earn a profit on. What would happen to the Chinese economy if America were to default on those debts? What do you think happens to the Chinese economy if America can no longer afford their goods? Conversely, what would happen to the American economy if suddenly China decided to stop trading with America? Despite all the manufacturing which has left, we still hit an all time high in value of exports in March of this year of exports of goods and services. China is number 3 on the list of buyers of our goods. Here's a real good link discussing the real life scenario, not the doom's day election year scare tactics: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/14/148460268/what-america-sells-to-the-world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Presc Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Maybe you mean Asia ex-Japan? Japan already is home to many brands producing top quaity gear. The rest of Asia seems to be a bit different with regard to guitars. It's mostly factories making outsourced gear for other brands. I see somewhat limited scope for improvement not because it can't be done, but because these guitars are intended to be the "bottom end". You do have Eastman allegedly making a high quality (and not inexpensive) product in China, but they're aiming for a guitar that can hang with a Gibson. Gibson doesn't want to make Korean Epiphones that can hang with Gibsons. They want to make Korean Epiphones that leave you wanting for a real Gibson at 2-3x the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackface Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Exactly. And who would actually buy a Lexus over a Merc? (other than the CEO of Sony!) Obviously a lot of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpnyc Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Japan (and please...it's japan...jap is a racial slur...thanks) has been making better guitars than the US (big builder to big builder) for the past 30 years. It's just almost all of the high end stuff never leaves the country. And most of the brands, are virtually unknown outside japan...although that's changing. +1. Asia can already male better stuff, but most people won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wayne2 Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Is this some sort of word problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canadian Jeff Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yes, because guitar manufacturing is so complicated that you need a solid 50+ years experience before you can make a good one. Wait a minute, that's not right, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bbreaker Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 I played my '56 Gibson LP Jr; '94 Gibson L20 Koa; '99 PRS McCarty; '01Custom Shop Brian Moore C90P; '02 Trussart Steelphonic; '00 McInturff Empress; '02 Pawar 360; '94 Fender Custom Shop Contemporary Strat and OMI Dobro M33 H Resonator and read this thread again...............you armchair financial forecasters are a pisser. Ready for the corksniffer jabs from the Hello Kitty kids.You want to put down American luthiers so badly and elevate overseas guitars.I have MIJ; MIK; MIM; MIC and MII (made in Indonesia) guitars and they're VERY good but you place them too high on a pedestal.I'm not saying that the USA makes the best guitars............see Gustavsson; Fibenaire; Ruokangas; Sugi; Teuffel or Aristides non American made guitars instead of those mass produced overseas instruments and discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snappy Hat Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 1. Given the right materials , quality parts and any country can make a good electric guitar . ANY country . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STRANDMAN1 Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 The biggest one for me is comparing my Jap Yamaha SA2200 v a new Gibson ES335. You could take the finest custom shop 335 you could find and it wouldn't be as good as the Yammie.Discuss. No worry about how soon it's going to happen. It's already happened everywhere except in our own minds. In fact the Japanese guitar makers surpassed us about 40 years ago and never looked back. They've had no Norlin era, no CBS era, and no Henry J. era. They've simply continued to make outstanding guitars at lower prices than American companies since the early 70's without interruption. It's only our own egocentricity that keeps us thinking that America is the center of the guitar world when in fact companies like Ibanez and Yamaha dwarf Gibson and Fender on the world market. Korea passed us some time ago as well with Samick and Cort producing and selling quality instruments in far greater numbers than Gibson and Fender. With Corts move to Indonesia that country is now in line to become another Asian guitar manufacturing super center as well. It's not how long before it happens. It's a done deal. Here's an example of what you are talking about. Both have wonderful playability and tone. Once we agree on that consider the upgrades on the Yamaha (real mop, real ebony, binding, flamed top, back and sides) and the fact that the Gibson costs a whole lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bbreaker Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 I don't think any region can overtake an industry............they'll probably be equally competitive and talented.Better or overtake are topics for Gibson and Agile fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jakey Posted September 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 You paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaXu Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Japan (and please...it's japan...jap is a racial slur...thanks) has been making better guitars than the US (big builder to big builder) for the past 30 years. It's just almost all of the high end stuff never leaves the country. And most of the brands, are virtually unknown outside japan...although that's changing. The funny thing is that the stores over there seem to be stocked to the brim with US guitars (or at least Fender Japan) and they seem to be hugely popular as well even though they make as good or superior guitars domestically. One factor has to be that I would wager that many Asian guitar factories are far more modern than their western counterparts. I mean Gibson uses downright archaic production methods for some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Presc Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 No worry about how soon it's going to happen. It's already happened everywhere except in our own minds. In fact the Japanese guitar makers surpassed us about 40 years ago and never looked back. They've had no Norlin era, no CBS era, and no Henry J. era. They've simply continued to make outstanding guitars at lower prices than American companies since the early 70's without interruption. It's only our own egocentricity that keeps us thinking that America is the center of the guitar world when in fact companies like Ibanez and Yamaha dwarf Gibson and Fender on the world market. If you consider US guitar manufacturers to stop at Fender and Gibson, sure. If you look beyond those two and start to consider other USA-made brands like PRS, Hamer, Suhr, Collings, and many others, many of the "best of the best", world class guitars are still made in the U.S. Do Yamaha and Ibanez really dwarf global Fender and Gibson sales? I'd love to see the numbers. Korea passed us some time ago as well with Samick and Cort producing and selling quality instruments in far greater numbers than Gibson and Fender. With Corts move to Indonesia that country is now in line to become another Asian guitar manufacturing super center as well. It's not how long before it happens. It's a done deal. I don't think they "passed us" as much as the US basically stopped making low-mid level production guitars, which makes complete economic sense. Mass production of guitars is a low-tech manufacturing operation. Not much sense to do that in the US, just like it doesn't make sense to assemble iPhones and TVs here. It's normal economic progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 67mike Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 What exactly is it that you think they own? Truth is, its American debt in which they hope to earn a profit on. What would happen to the Chinese economy if America were to default on those debts? What do you think happens to the Chinese economy if America can no longer afford their goods? Conversely, what would happen to the American economy if suddenly China decided to stop trading with America? Despite all the manufacturing which has left, we still hit an all time high in value of exports in March of this year of exports of goods and services. China is number 3 on the list of buyers of our goods. Here's a real good link discussing the real life scenario, not the doom's day election year scare tactics: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/14/148460268/what-america-sells-to-the-world China has been propping up the US dollar for quite a while now. They have bought tons of US debt. That is coming to and end in the near future....then the {censored} will hit the fan. One interesting fact is they realize the US dollar is doomed and will soon be worthless....that is why they are buying all the physical gold and silver that they can, also they are buying tangible assets with the US dollars...businesses and real estate...in fact it has been happening here in Canada as well..they are buying up resources, installing pipelines to extract our oil and gas. A friend turned me on to another phenomenon that is happening...in some big cites (Toronto for example) Chinese bidders are buying up homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bbreaker Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hungarian made!!!!!!!!!!! Fibenare Guitars!!!!! OMG!! not made in the USA or, dare I say, not MI Far East) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsVmCuhb31o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted September 25, 2012 Members Share Posted September 25, 2012 The funny thing is that the stores over there seem to be stocked to the brim with US guitars (or at least Fender Japan) and they seem to be hugely popular as well even though they make as good or superior guitars domestically.One factor has to be that I would wager that many Asian guitar factories are far more modern than their western counterparts. I mean Gibson uses downright archaic production methods for some things. That's very true. When I was in japan, the guitar stores are jammed full of Gibson's and Fenders. There are reasons for that. Marketing works in Japan as well. People there are sucked in by the nostalgia of classic rock and wanting what their "heros" played...just as much as people in the west. That is actually part of the reason why the japanese domestic brands are SO good...they have to build to a higher standard to have their guitars sell...cause if they don't...people will just by the big name brands. It's also known that fender and gibson cherry pick their very best guitars for export to the japanese market cause the competition is so fierce over there. And actually a lot of the Japanese companies use really traditional methods for building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretmonster Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 A more likely scenario, at least in the short term, is that American guitar manufacturing will go away as people continue to look for similar products at lower price points. At that point, ANY American made guitar will become vintage gold because by and large they've earned the reputation as the most well-made guitars on the planet. Perceptions differ, hell you can't even distinguish a good guitar from bad without a decent amp to play it through and of course the test of time to see how things held up. Granted, there are exceptions, I mean I have a Korean made Washburn P290 that I preferred to the Custom Shop P4 from a sound standpoint because A.) the P290 had a nitro finish unlike the P4, and B.) the P4 had an Ebony board which made it brighter not warmer. But it should be noted that the P290 had an MSRP around $1,000 in 2002, so it is not your standard "Budget line" guitar and the P4 came with much nicer hardware and appointments. And I'm also partial to 90's MIMs but that was before the Mexican plant started making their own bodies and necks (the US plant used to ship them down). Sure other Countries including Japan have made top-shelf guitars but not in the same numbers, at least in my experience. Anyway, in that case we're looking at very similar price points and not budget lines. It's just ludicrous to assume that guitars made specifically for a certain market niche would exceed those made for a higher market niche. Just not gonna happen, not in the manufacturers interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members *BLEEP* Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 How many more years before Far Eastern guitars overtake Western made? I seriously believe we're going to see a quantum shift in our attitude towards what we now perceive to be 'budget' guitars....the ones I have seen recently have been utterly blistering and I reckon they'll just get better and better. Don't worry. In 20 years' time, the West and the Far East will be overrun with budget Antarctican guitars; guitars made by non-complaining non-demanding slave labour robots toiling away in sunny post-global-warming palm-tree-lined tax-free law-free Antarctica, in factories owned by unaccounted-for cryogenically-preserved Third Reich escapees. It's inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 -2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harold heckuba Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Less than 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 How many workers do you need to run a CNC machine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HanSolo Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 It's already happened. The buyers (myself included) of overpriced US-made guitars just have a hard time admitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bad Robot Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 I've had less problems with my Pac-Rim guitars than I have, in general, with my American guitars. I think that some Pac-Rim makers are at par or better than American manufacturers, when it comes to electrics. My experience with Pac-Rim acoustic guitars is different. They are behind in quality there, with a couple of mainstream exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Japan (and please...it's japan...jap is a racial slur...thanks) has been making better guitars than the US (big builder to big builder) for the past 30 years. It's just almost all of the high end stuff never leaves the country. And most of the brands, are virtually unknown outside japan...although that's changing. I am sure it was not meant as a slur, just an abbreviation like Brit or Aussie. (Although I am sure it could be seen as such by people sitting around waiting to be offended.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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