Members onelife Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 Back on topic: that didn't last long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Presc Posted September 26, 2012 Members Share Posted September 26, 2012 At this point I think we both need to stand corrected since you and I are talking about apples when oranges are the topic of discussion. "Thread: HOW MANY YEARS BEFORE FAR EASTERN GUITARS OVERTAKE WESTERM MADE?" The key term here being "Western made". Given that criteria the reason that Fender and Gibson (for purposes of this discussion) are relative dwarfs in the world market is that we are talking about guitars that are actually made in the Far East vs. guitars that are actually made in the West. With that criteria in mind Gibson and Fender don't get to count their branded guitars that are made in the Far East since those guitars were not made by them in the West. In addition none of the guitar makers you mentioned who market Eastern made branded instruments get to count theirs either. With that in mind the true giants in the guitar industry are the Korean companies "Cort" with a full 30% of the worlds market share and "Samick" with a similar amount. My simple math tells me that leaves a remainder of 40% for all of the other hundreds of guitar makers in the entire world to share between themselves. Seen in that light it's obvious to me that guitars actually made in the West meaning primarily American made Gibson, Fender, and others are indeed a small part of the world wide equation and have been for quite some time now. Okay, that's fair if you're considering things from a volumetric perspective; I would imagine you are correct that the greatest quantity of guitars are made in Asia. I think the question was more about quality than quantity though, so I'd argue my point still holds. But I'd still argue that global leadership in an industry is tied to origin of design, marketing, and management, not country of manufacture. China is likely the leader in smartphone production, but they're not participating the high-value components of the industry, so you could hardly say they're true leader in smartphones. For that reason I would still say Gibson and Fender are the 800-lb Gorillas of the industry, just like Apple owns the smartphone market and is the most valuable company in the world, even though they don't actually make a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 You argument is one of the logical fallacies, "argumentum ad populum" to be specific. In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely-held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct. So your argument that you and your minority friends tell racist jokes is unsuitable as an argument as proof that it is ok to use racist comments in a public forum. In order for an argument to be considered valid the logical form of the argument must work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PeaveyPlayer Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Just watch, your next guitar may come from Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlinytheWelder Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 People can make great guitars anywhere...It doesn't matter one bit where they call home on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 It won't happen unless they patent infringe on MIA mojo-pixie dust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PlinytheWelder Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 China has been propping up the US dollar for quite a while now. They have bought tons of US debt. That is coming to and end in the near future....then the {censored} will hit the fan. One interesting fact is they realize the US dollar is doomed and will soon be worthless....that is why they are buying all the physical gold and silver that they can, also they are buying tangible assets with the US dollars...businesses and real estate...in fact it has been happening here in Canada as well..they are buying up resources, installing pipelines to extract our oil and gas. A friend turned me on to another phenomenon that is happening...in some big cites (Toronto for example) Chinese bidders are buying up homes. I heard the same thing in the 80's about Japan............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spike Li Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 my God, why do people get their panties in such a bunch over words:confused: Rose pickups suck :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 It's already happened. Maybe not for the highest quality point.. but for the midrange and low range price points.. And ESPECIALLY for the 'bang for buck' pricepoint.. it's already happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 You argument is one of the logical fallacies, "argumentum ad populum" to be specific. In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely-held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct. So your argument that you and your minority friends tell racist jokes is unsuitable as an argument as proof that it is ok to use racist comments in a public forum. In order for an argument to be considered valid the logical form of the argument must work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 Rose pickups suck :poke: oh yeah, WELL YOU SUCK!!! :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 67mike Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 I heard the same thing in the 80's about Japan............. Well first of all...the trade NA does with China DWARFS what it did with Japan. Secondly, have a look at the global situation........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted September 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted September 27, 2012 I believe that many on this forum weren't even born when this happened, about 1977-1978? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 and tell me, where did you grow up??? how much racial versatility have you known in your life??? in my experience, people are people. and, when you know and care about each other they are comfortable enough to joke about things... now, i do agree that a public forum is the wrong place for blatant racial slurs, hell, any place is the wrong place if it's being done intentionally. but, the OP was referring to a place of manufacture, not a race of people... get over it... Well since you ask, I have lived in; Japan ArizonaFloridaArkansasCaliforniadowntown ChicagoMissouriand North Carolinaall for extended periods of time. I have visited numerous other states and a few other countries as well. I think it is safe to say that I have had a fair exposure to diversity. But that has nothing to do with whether or not one is free to use terms that are offensive on public forums.Of course anyone is allowed to say anything they want, it's just that they might get called on it, have it pointed out that their use of a term like Jap is ignorant...irrespective of context.If you think I am upset about this you are mistaken. You seem to have greater emotional investment in this then I do. Perhaps you should not get your panties in such a bunch over words. ()One of the corporal acts of mercy is to instruct the ignorant, and that is simply my intention in pointing out to the op that his use of the term Jap is unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted September 27, 2012 Members Share Posted September 27, 2012 My '56 Epi Goldtop is as nice as any guitar I've owned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bbreaker Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 This was made in eastern Toms River , NJ by Paul Unkert.It was from the German Music product show.Billy Gibbons was supposed to have it.It's mine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sgt mukuzi Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 too many short cuts and not enough good timber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MatthewTKK Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 I am sorry to bring this news - and you may want to sit down before reading this - but guitars were not invented in the USA. There is no law of nature which says the best ones have to be made there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faber Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 I believe that many on this forum weren't even born when this happened, about 1977-1978? ESP, Ibanez, Yamaha all built instuments that rival anything from the US, and they have done so for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted September 28, 2012 Members Share Posted September 28, 2012 Quality is quality regardless of originYamaha has and still makes guitars every bit as good as Fender or Gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JTEES4 Posted September 29, 2012 Members Share Posted September 29, 2012 About the same time that china becomes the #1 global super power and we're all living on minimum wage. 2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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