It's settled: Do what you want. It's all good.

[benzem]

^^^it's just so delicious.

[Vito Corleone]

If only the clubowners weren't so greedy and the audiences so stupid, my musical awesomeness would be so much better appreciated. I mean...have you HEARD my tone? If not, let me turn it up for you.

 

Excuse me while I quit my lame band (or did they just fire me?) and go practice some more so I can continue to prove my superiority and awesomeness.

[tlbonehead]

Yeah, I hate it too when companies clone other companies pedals and then sell them for less. It is far more moral to sell the clones of the original for MORE money.

I don't like it when they create clones by stealing protected circuitry.

[jwlussow]

So are you stating I'm a dickhead in your post or Caemen is because he is a behringer fanboy.

 

Certainly not you modulusman...

 

I do kind of take Caemen's posts with a larger grain of salt. It is one thing to say some gear is OK but a fanboy of a company that markets cheap crap to noobs hoping that a German name will make them appear like they are higher quality while stealing the designs of hard working engineers just to pass off cheap copies...

 

I know some people like some of their gear but to go on a "real" sound related site and claim Behringer is anything but low end dog food makes me (personally - I ONLY speak for myself) wary of anything else that person might say.

 

Sometimes McDonald's is good but given the choice, I'll stick with Shula's or Gibson's. I don't mind paying for high quality things. They generally last longer, sound better, taste better, smell better, etc...

[FranE]

As a long time lurker, and (recent) first poster, can I add my 2c? I see what Guido means (in his OP anyway, I got a bit lost with trees and forests!). I'm fairly new to playing in a band and to performing. I've been reading this forum because I want to know about issues that relate specifically to bands/gigs/performance etc. There are other forums for individual instruments. I've really enjoyed reading the "clothes on stage" and "music stands" thread - both new to me - and I want to see people's opinions. For and against. Pros and cons. Related issues that I hadn't even thought of. Even before I saw this thread, I was thinking that the "do what you want, it doesn't bother me" responses were a bit .... well, pointless. I mean, if you believe that it makes absolutely no difference to the crowd's perception of the band, then say so (and why). But just saying "it doesn't matter to me" ... doesn't really add anything to the discussion or the info that people like me come here to pick up. And I assume (as he said) that being able to play is pretty much a given when discussing band/performance related issues, so to say that learning your parts/the music is more important than worrying about clothes or music stands is not really helpful.

 

I suspect I've just committed HC suicide by chiming in on what looks like a fairly contentious thread, but thought nevertheless you might like to see an "outsider's" opinion.

 

I am now going to take deep breath, hit "post quick reply" and run away!

[Vito Corleone]

 

I suspect I've just committed HC suicide

 

 

No, I like you. You may be my new best friend in fact.

 

But in all seriousness, welcome to the forum and feel free to chime in whenever and about whatever. The more the merrier. This place needs some new blood anyway.

 

Don't be shy. Our bark is worse than our bite.

[Piano Whore]

I have always thought that this board talks too much about the trappings of band-god-hood and not enough about musicianship. And that's why I have always enjoyed reading comments by Lee Knight, Wade, Senor Blues, Blue Strat and others who seem to have the playing/groove aspect in the forefront of their minds.

 

BUT: 1) online forums lend themselves to discussion about gear, setlists, clothes, lights etc much more so than discussions about playing, and if we were all in a big gear-filled room together it would probably be the opposite. Typing about music is not that far removed from dancing about architecture. And also 2), just because someone rarely talks about the playing aspect doesn't mean they never think about it or work on it.

 

Having said that, I also think like Wade in that the reputation of live music is suffering much more from poor musicianship and singing, at least a zillion times moreso, than anything concerning music stands, shorts, the aging of the musician populace etc. And also, IMO if you care about being a MUSICIAN, maximizing your ability and developing your talent is totally irrelevant to whether you ever play another gig the rest of your life- it's just what you DO. If I only played for myself from here on out I would still want to keep getting better. Maybe thats insanity. I don't know and I don't much care.

[Vito Corleone]

And also, IMO if you care about being a MUSICIAN, maximizing your ability and developing your talent is totally irrelevant to whether you ever play another gig the rest of your life- it's just what you DO. If I only played for myself from here on out I would still want to keep getting better. Maybe thats insanity. I don't know and I don't much care.

 

No, that's my point as well. The dedication to musicianship is (or should be) taken for granted, for the most part. As I've said already, the cries for "don't forget about the music!" might be valid if there was any indication here that anyone was. No one here is telling the symphony orchestra guys to not use a music stand. Or the guys who play sight-reading gigs behind big name artists. We're telling the guys who play "Brown Eyed Girl" and "Dynamite" that it's time to learn the words already.

 

C'mon--is that REALLY such an affront to anyone's sense of musicianship?

 

I've agreed with those who say live music suffers from poor musicianship and lousy vocals. Do I need to go hunt down the posts to remind you of that? When have I EVER said those things weren't important? And as such, why would anyone presume that my advocation of all the other stuff that I believe goes into being and good and successful live band be a detraction from good music and good vocals?

 

Are people here incapable of doing both? What? You can only sing well while wearing shorts?

[caeman]

 

We've all succumbed to RAMPANT SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS!!

 

 

I love the smell of rampant self-righteousness in the morning.

[caeman]

I do kind of take Caemen's posts with a larger grain of salt. It is one thing to say some gear is OK but a fanboy of a company that markets cheap crap to noobs hoping that a German name will make them appear like they are higher quality while stealing the designs of hard working engineers just to pass off cheap copies...

 

So, because I enjoy the sound of a few cheap knock-offs, that diminishes my real-world experience with and recommendations for [sfx], FEA, EHX, MXR, de Lisle, Barber, Paul C., Boss, DOD, Dr. Scientist and Guyatone pedals? There have also been Dano, Joyo, GFS and Biyang pedals in that mix. I worry less about name, and more about tone results at good value. Keeping up with the Jones' is an expensive game. I tell you what, you buy me a Guyatone FL-3 flanger to replace my current Behringer flanger, and I will video myself taking a hammer to it and crush it to little pieces. Because, otherwise, two kids have taken away all of my free cash. My apologies if my bank account can no longer buy your respect. But, despite my lack of ownership of $1000 pedals, I am playing every weekend, from Friday night through Sunday.

[jwlussow]

 

I suspect I've just committed HC suicide by chiming in on what looks like a fairly contentious thread, but thought nevertheless you might like to see an "outsider's" opinion. I am now going to take deep breath, hit "post quick reply" and run away!

 

 

Nah. Join in. Sometimes you will agree and sometimes you will disagree. This place is like a big family. We don't always get along but dad shows up if we start personal attacks. Most of the arguments here relate to gear and non-personal things. The best part is you can be at someone's throat one day and in the next thread we are all best buds. There are hot button issues that re-appear too often but we all learn something new just about every day.

 

Welcome and enjoy.

[jwlussow]

 

, FEA, EHX, MXR, de Lisle, Barber, Paul C., Boss, DOD, Dr. Scientist and Guyatone pedals? There have also been Dano, Joyo, GFS and Biyang pedals in that mix. I worry less about name, and more about tone results at good value. Keeping up with the Jones' is an expensive game. I tell you what, you buy me a Guyatone FL-3 flanger to replace my current Behringer flanger, and I will video myself taking a hammer to it and crush it to little pieces. Because, otherwise, two kids have taken away all of my free cash. My apologies if my bank account can no longer buy your respect. But, despite my lack of ownership of $1000 pedals, I am playing every weekend, from Friday night through Sunday.

 

 

Like I said, the fanboy status is what did it for me. Some B gear is usable but at this point of my life, cost is not one of the main factors in my purchases. There was a point 20 years ago or so when cost was the most important factor. Now reliability, performance and yes, business ethics has more impact on my purchases. Would I skip the perfect Behringer piece of gear for something more expensive that has the same or slightly lower performance? Yes, I probably would. I'm not saying that is right but that is the truth.

 

If you are playing three nights every weekend, why the hell are you looking at the cheapest bottom feeder gear? Spend some of that money on quality pro stuff. Again, just my opinion. Congrats on that schedule. I doubt if I can do that anymore, I'm too {censored}ing old...

[modulusman]

 

, FEA, EHX, MXR, de Lisle, Barber, Paul C., Boss, DOD, Dr. Scientist and Guyatone pedals? There have also been Dano, Joyo, GFS and Biyang pedals in that mix. I worry less about name, and more about tone results at good value. Keeping up with the Jones' is an expensive game. I tell you what, you buy me a Guyatone FL-3 flanger to replace my current Behringer flanger, and I will video myself taking a hammer to it and crush it to little pieces. Because, otherwise, two kids have taken away all of my free cash. My apologies if my bank account can no longer buy your respect. But, despite my lack of ownership of $1000 pedals, I am playing every weekend, from Friday night through Sunday.

 

 

If the fact that Uli was a thieving bastard doesn't bother you then knock yourself out.

[modulusman]

 

Like I said, the fanboy status is what did it for me. Some B gear is usable but at this point of my life, cost is not one of the main factors in my purchases. There was a point 20 years ago or so when cost was the most important factor. Now reliability, performance and yes, business ethics has more impact on my purchases. Would I skip the perfect Behringer piece of gear for something more expensive that has the same or slightly lower performance? Yes, I probably would. I'm not saying that is right but that is the truth. If you are playing three nights every weekend, why the hell are you looking at the cheapest bottom feeder gear? Spend some of that money on quality pro stuff. Again, just my opinion. Congrats on that schedule. I doubt if I can do that anymore, I'm too {censored}ing old...

 

 

Well he didn't say he was actually getting paid decent. I played 4 gigs last week. The band that doesn't use Blowinger had 3 where i made Over $1100.00. The other bands gig paid me $150.00.

[caeman]

I am a gospel musician. I don't get paid. It is a choice I made and I happily accept. Things have been helped out greatly once I got endorsed by Cave Passive Pedals. It comes down to doing what *I* want with my music life, and this is what I want to do. I get calls and invites to play often and I couldn't be happier. And, doing it all on a budget and not worrying about some anonymous person in another part of the world who isn't contributing to my music ministry in any positive way.

 

As per the title of this thread, I am doing what I want, and it is all good.

 

I never wear shorts on stage. I sometimes use a music stand. And I always wear the hat.

[ckcondon]

Behringer, music stands and shorts on stage. This thread really has it all!

Enjoying the debate. I see exactly where Guido is coming from and ultimately think that as PERFORMERS, many bands short change their audience. I think that knowing your craft as a musician and constantly striving to improve is a given. How you share that art is the debate.

Different genres and different audiences mean different solutions. I see monster musicians playing the same clubs I do and you know what? They have NO lights and no stage presence. They play their technically superior music to an indifferent crowd who may or may not hang around to hear the rest of the show (Because they can't see the band playing in a dark corner). This is why as PERFORMERS we need to do more than just "Let the music do the talking". I'm also talking about rock cover bands. Country? Jazz? Classical? All different animals as far as I'm concerned.

I always equate music with theater. Put on a show... a performance. Rehearse your parts then put your energy into the delivery.

Many bands get away with shorts, music stands, no lights and cheap gear. Good for them. I'm always going to work harder to present a more entertaining option.

 

And of course I wish I had more time to work on my drumming. Balance is the key. Once you are over a certain age and have a life with real responsibilities other than shedding, you do what you can.

[Piano Whore]

And also, IMO if you care about being a MUSICIAN, maximizing your ability and developing your talent is totally irrelevant to whether you ever play another gig the rest of your life- it's just what you DO. If I only played for myself from here on out I would still want to keep getting better. Maybe thats insanity. I don't know and I don't much care.

 

@David: That part of my earlier post was in response to your comment to Wade to the effect of "why worry about getting as good as the Nashville cats, and being able to do what they do, if you're not going to actually MOVE to Nashville but instead stay in your local podunk area where that level of ability is wasted". Sorry if I misunderstood, but I took that to be the gist of what you were saying. Not that it doesn't make sense, either, but IMO the drive to play music and better yourself as a musician is not a rational endeaver to begin with.

 

BTW your playing sounds fine to me and you look like you groove when you play, too so I'm not out to undermine your abilities. The only thing that ever made me question whether you were focused on the playing part, was a comment you made some eons ago (when you re-cutting a Journey piano part) was that your time was slightly off on the part, but your timing "is what it is", as if it wasn't something you could work on and improve. I thought that was a needlessly passive mindset. FWIW my own time sucks IMO and I look forward to using my impending "funemployment" to shore it up some (with a full time job, band rehearsals most every week night for the new project, plus gigs every weekend with the old band, I haven't had much time to break out the Rachmaninoff either.).

[Vermoulian]

 

I think that knowing your craft as a musician and constantly striving to improve is a given. How you share that art is the debate.

 

 

This should be on a banner at the top of this forum.

 

"Focus on the music" is a bit of a red herring because nobody is ever "done" when it comes to getting better as a musician. Everybody can always get better if they study and practice more. But that means that if you put off addressing any other aspect of performance until you master music and your instrument, you will NEVER address the rest of it.

 

The ugly truth is, there's a level of competence beyond which extra effort towards musical virtuosity is NOT the best use of your time and resources. Certainly, there are plenty of players out there who have not yet reached that level of competence, and they absolutely should be prioritizing their music. But at least in the pop/rock cover band milieu, I think that level of basic competence is not as high as some people think it is, and I would bet that most if not all of the usual suspects on this forum have achieved it---including even Wade.

 

Focusing on music technique and theory to the exclusion of the other aspects of performance is like blueprinting and tweaking the engine on a car with leaky brakes and bald rotted tires. There are a lot of parallels: you're never really done---there's always more you can do; you can squeeze more horsepower or torque out of it, but it won't make a meaningful difference driving to the grocery store; and what numbers you put up on the dyno don't mean much if you can't drive safely across town and back.

[BATCAT]

 

This should be on a banner at the top of this forum. "Focus on the music" is a bit of a red herring because nobody is ever "done" when it comes to getting better as a musician. Everybody can always get better if they study and practice more. But that means that if you put off addressing any other aspect of performance until you master music and your instrument, you will NEVER address the rest of it.

 

 

It would be nice if it were possible to have a discussion about presentation, showmanship, and visuals without anyone implying that addressing this stuff means you feel the actual music is of secondary importance. A red herring indeed.

[Vito Corleone]

@David: That part of my earlier post was in response to your comment to Wade to the effect of "why worry about getting as good as the Nashville cats, and being able to do what they do, if you're not going to actually MOVE to Nashville but instead stay in your local podunk area where that level of ability is wasted". Sorry if I misunderstood, but I took that to be the gist of what you were saying. Not that it doesn't make sense, either, but IMO the drive to play music and better yourself as a musician is not a rational endeaver to begin with.

 

Yeah, I can see how that wasn't worded well and could be taken the wrong way. The context I was intending was this:

 

Regarding forests and trees and my list of things I have to do this week and all of that---every musical career, every band, every gig is its own "forest". We all have to decide upon our goals and set up priorities on what we need to do and how we are going to approach things in order to reach those goals. We are all (I hope) driven by the desire to play music and be better musicians, but that also has to dealt with within the constructs of the next gig, the goals for the band we play with, and our larger musical aspirations.

 

As Stratguy22 just said on another thread, he doesn't practice much because he's been playing "Honky Tonk Women" for 28 years. I don't take that comment to mean he doesn't want to be the best guitarist he can be and doesn't work on that--I take it as an acknowledgement of the reality of the present gig he has. There IS a "good enough" point you reach with certain material and within the needs for a particular band. Let me temper this with a comment I've made before when people talk about "how do you stay focused when playing BEG for the 8th millionth time". As I've said in those threads, I really don't get bored playing stuff over and over because I don't believe I've ever played ANY song 'perfectly' and there's always SOME little bit I can focus on to try and play better than I played it the time before. Having said that, I'm probably not going to spend any time rehearsing BEG either on my own or with the band because there are other things that need to be done and there's only so many hours in the day.

 

So back to my comment to Wade -- part of being able to see the forest for the trees is knowing what your forest even IS. If I've decided at this point in my life, that I'm playing in the type of band I want to play in and I no longer have aspiration for a greater musical career, then spending a great deal of time trying to be a symphony-orchestra level player might not be the best use of my time. Especially since I have a band that requires attention to so many other things in order to perform at its optimum level. And I'm sure Wade understands this. And if he was playing in a band this week he'd probably instead be posting about how he needs to spend time learning this song or that song or getting his gear together for the next gig. Since he's not playing with anyone right now, he can focus on studying theory. That's all fine and good, but my comment was directed towards asking him "what's your long term goals here? and while what you're doing certainly has value, just don't forget to make sure you're not wasting time focusing on one small area when attention to other areas might be an overall better use of your time".

 

Wow, that was horribly written and overly verbose even for me. I hope my point comes across well.

 

BTW your playing sounds fine to me and you look like you groove when you play, too so I'm not out to undermine your abilities. The only thing that ever made me question whether you were focused on the playing part, was a comment you made some eons ago (when you re-cutting a Journey piano part) was that your time was slightly off on the part, but your timing "is what it is", as if it wasn't something you could work on and improve. I thought that was a needlessly passive mindset.

 

Wow. Good memory. Hmmm...my timing. Yes, that has always been the weakest spot in my playing. I always practice with a metronome or drum track. I ask the drummer to keep time for me through solo pieces when we play live. I need that assistance. I never meant to imply my timing isn't something I could work on, but that it presents me with certain limitations at certain moments. Like, for example, trying to re-cut a piano part I played to no click track in the first place. The timing was slightly off on the first take, so trying to match it was difficult. So the timing on the finished piece is even more off, but short of asking the entire band to replay the piece, I had little other choice but to live with the result of my own poor timing. "It is what it is".

 

But music shouldn't be about perfection anyway. That demo was recorded in the studio so as to get the best audio quality possible, but I wanted to also be recorded as "live" as possible so as to capture those imperfections. Short of parts that were learned incorrectly, that is. Again---choices/priorities/sacrifices. Nothing can ever be 100%. We only strive to do our best in as many areas as possible without spreading ourselves TOO thin.

 

FWIW my own time sucks IMO and I look forward to using my impending "funemployment" to shore it up some (with a full time job, band rehearsals most every week night for the new project, plus gigs every weekend with the old band, I haven't had much time to break out the Rachmaninoff either. ).

 

For me it's my book of Beethoven sonatas I bring out when I have the time to keep my sight-reading skills still somewhat working and to keep my chops up. And the old Czerny workbooks "The School of Velocity" and "The Art of Finger Dexterity". I wish I had more time to devote to that stuff, but at the same time, I can play "Moves Like Jagger" PRETTY well and that IS what my next paying gig calls for...

[Vito Corleone]

 

This should be on a banner at the top of this forum. "Focus on the music" is a bit of a red herring because nobody is ever "done" when it comes to getting better as a musician. Everybody can always get better if they study and practice more. But that means that if you put off addressing any other aspect of performance until you master music and your instrument, you will NEVER address the rest of it. The ugly truth is, there's a level of competence beyond which extra effort towards musical virtuosity is NOT the best use of your time and resources. Certainly, there are plenty of players out there who have not yet reached that level of competence, and they absolutely should be prioritizing their music. But at least in the pop/rock cover band milieu, I think that level of basic competence is not as high as some people think it is, and I would bet that most if not all of the usual suspects on this forum have achieved it---including even Wade. Focusing on music technique and theory to the exclusion of the other aspects of performance is like blueprinting and tweaking the engine on a car with leaky brakes and bald rotted tires. There are a lot of parallels: you're never really done---there's always more you can do; you can squeeze more horsepower or torque out of it, but it won't make a meaningful difference driving to the grocery store; and what numbers you put up on the dyno don't mean much if you can't drive safely across town and back.

 

 

Nicely put.

 

My ire gets up a bit when people bring up the "focus on the music" red herring because, while this might be a mis-interpretation on my part, I often see those comments and believe the commentator is making excuses for his/her lack of attention to other details of the presentation. Of COURSE we could all be better musicians. And who doesn't want to be? But to suggest that you shouldn't go around telling others to put away the music stand until you've personally mastered your instrument or until your own band is as tight as Tower of Power is absurd. It isn't one-or-the-other. It's called "The Whole Package" for a reason.

[kmart]

 

It would be nice if it were possible to have a discussion about presentation, showmanship, and visuals without anyone implying that addressing this stuff means you feel the actual music is of secondary importance.

 

 

Yes.

 

It would be.

[StratGuy22]

As Stratguy22 just said on another thread, he doesn't practice much because he's been playing "Honky Tonk Women" for 28 years. I don't take that comment to mean he doesn't want to be the best guitarist he can be and doesn't work on that--I take it as an acknowledgement of the reality of the present gig he has. There IS a "good enough" point you reach with certain material and within the needs for a particular band. Let me temper this with a comment I've made before when people talk about "how do you stay focused when playing BEG for the 8th millionth time". As I've said in those threads, I really don't get bored playing stuff over and over because I don't believe I've ever played ANY song 'perfectly' and there's always SOME little bit I can focus on to try and play better than I played it the time before. Having said that, I'm probably not going to spend any time rehearsing BEG either on my own or with the band because there are other things that need to be done and there's only so many hours in the day.

 

That being said, I put in the work when it's needed. We added Smoking in the Boys room, a song I've played a million times. But I always played rhythm for it. So I had to sit down and learn the solo properly.

 

 

It's one of a few solos I'll brush up on now and then, especially before a gig just to make sure I've got it nailed down. Then of course you learn it sitting, so you have to practice it standing as well.

 

 

[3shiftgtr]

Awwright guido....you'll invariably use your relative contexts and details to tell me (and everyone else every time they try to make a point with you) just how wrong I am. But I will explain as succinctly as I can. And while you'll find fault with the details, try to keep an eye on the PERSPECTIVE of the argument.

 

The OP was a sting against apathy, right? So then you post this gem:

 

 

This thread was borne out of my frustration with yet another 'music stands' thread because, while music stands themselves are just a symbol, their advocacy is a symbol for NOT CARING.

 

 

Hmmm...a music stand means you don't care. I get it. Perspective clear.

 

 

Care about what you do on stage. Be passionate. Be good. Get better.

 

 

O.k. O.k....and music stands are a symbol for not caring. WE {censored}ING, 19 THREADS LATER GET IT. You keep repeating it as if you didn't type it. I wonder why they are still arguing?

 

Could it be a hole in your point of view? Nope. Your point is valid. Unless you don't put your money where your mouth is. Then the perspective gets clouded.

 

Wade, while reminding us in his 'headstock to the face' way to not forget about getting better, asked you a beautiful question. In your zeal to kick rhetorical ass, you answer it in guido speak, but ignore it's INTENTION: Wades asks:

 

 

Note for note rote? Or is there something else?

 

 

Then we get post after post of "Play the damn song" and "I never said music isn't important." and all the other {censored} that makes for great reading. But it never answers the question:

 

Well, is there something more? Is there something more to making music than playing the damn song and the projector and the lights? Is there something intangible that hard work and study can give your music that just 'playing the damn song' doesn't?

 

First you get defensive:

 

 

Did I give you the impression at some point in time that I suck as a musician or something?

 

 

Then you spill a couple of petulant "whaddya expect? I've got a job to do!" stuff that reeks of poor me cuz SOMEone has to make sure the projector works:

 

 

Oh. Sorry. I didn't have time for that. I was working on my scales and arpeggios instead. But it's not a big deal. The MUSIC is the most important thing we're doing here, right?

 

 

Again, is there something else? Or is it just play the {censored}ing song and put on a good show, get paid and go home? The point IS the forest from the trees.

 

 

We all have to decide upon our goals and set up priorities on what we need to do and how we are going to approach things in order to reach those goals.

 

 

And the question is are you so busy trying really, really, really, really, hard to get thru the gig that you have forgoten that study is WORTHY of your time? That the best way to connect to your audience is thru YOUR POWER as a musician. And the only way to achieve an increase in your POWER as a musician is thru study and practice THAT ISN'T RELATED TO THE NEXT COUPLE OF GIGS?

 

Have you made a pallet for yourself? Are you locked in? Since you play the songs really well, your band is really good and you have done all your studying in the past, have you decided that is good enough? Is it just a business now?

 

Can you see how what you are posting conflicts within the overall PERSPECTIVE of the discussion? You have gotten mired in the "I never said the music isn't important" rhetorical defense of your point. But what are you missing? Is there something else? You are happy to point out that a music stand means lazy and you are here to help.

 

Thanks. Let me return the favor and ask you: do you have a "music stand" attitude to getting better as a musician, or is it as the OP title states "It's settled: Do what you want. It's all good."....does it just not matter that much?

 

Is your advocacy against music stands a symbol of your apathy towards the "something else" element of music?

[Vito Corleone]

 

. Note for note rote? Or is there something else? But it never answers the question: Well, is there something more?

 

 

Because A) the question is a strawman. No one has ever said anything about note for note rote. And B) I've addressed that issue dozens of times including in this thread. Often when arguing against Wade who, in his zeal to criticize those who don't play the solo to "Jump" exactly the way it is on the record and declare he can show them 'how to do it right', or to note that he's heard many versions of "Don't Stop Believin'" posted here but none where the guitarist "nails" what Neal Schon did, I've replied to him that it's better for a band to take a cover and make it somewhat their own rather than try to play 'note for note', IMO. Be original and creative. Don't be a jukebox. But you're right. I didn't take the time to specifically address that point, yet again, when he asked that question.

 

No offense to Wade, who I believe is a good guy with good intentions and who loves music, but he tends to be all over the place and preaches his "gospel" based on whatever his personal musical/life situation is on that particular day it seems. One day it's "play it just like EVH or don't bother". The next day it's "be original". The day after that it's "just stay home and practice". I can't keep up. So sometimes it's best to not address a question where I don't really know where it's coming from. And since "note for note or something more" didn't seem to have anything to do with the topic at hand, IMO--I chose to ignore it.

 

 

Is there something more to making music than playing the damn song and the projector and the lights? Is there something intangible that hard work and study can give your music that just 'playing the damn song' doesn't?

 

 

Of course. Again, who has ever said there WASN'T? Who has EVER said "don't play as well as you can?" The OVERALL perspective here -- and the original topic of the thread --- is that this forum is about BAND issues. Of which---as offensive as some people might find it to be -- playing your instrument as well as you possibly can is only but ONE part of having a successful BAND. Again....if we aren't going to discuss all those other issues HERE, then where WILL they be discussed? Should there be two forums? One for only discussing playing your instrument and one for the other aspects of being in a band? Would that help resolve the confusion you find yourself in everytime somebody brings up music stands without mentioning "Don't forget to practice, folks!"?

 

 

Then you spill a couple of petulant "whaddya expect? I've got a job to do!" stuff that reeks of poor me cuz SOMEone has to make sure the projector works:

 

 

You may have read that as petulant and defensive, but that wasn't my intent. It was simply to point out that there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done when preparing for a gig. I AGREE with you that the music is the "most important" thing. But that doesn't mean the other stuff can be ignored. If it is, then the band fails at the gig, WHICH IS THE WHOLE REASON THERE IS MUSIC TO PRACTICE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Again. This is a band forum. The focus is on gigging.

 

And again...I DO find it offensive that you find it right and acceptible for Wade to "remind" people to not forget about the music, but MY "reminding" him that there's a LOT of stuff that needs to be done on a daily and weekly basis when one is in a working band is "petulant". That wasn't fair and was conflicting, IMO.

 

 

 

Again, is there something else? Or is it just play the {censored}ing song and put on a good show, get paid and go home?

 

 

Again, you're building a strawman. No one have ever said just play the {censored}ing song, put on a good show, get paid and go home. Certainly not me. I rail on here CONSTANTLY about people being better. About bands being better. About putting emphasis on vocals. My "just play the {censored}ing song" comment was simply directed at the idea that at SOME point you have to get up on stage and just play the {censored}ing song. Especially for those of us playing pop and classic rock--which is the majority of people here, it seems. Yes, we can be better musicians. Yes, we should all strive to do that. But to what degree am I going to sit and home and worry about the theortical construct of Another Brick In The Wall when my job is simply to get up there and play it as well as I can? Yeah, you can go overboard with that {censored}. Especially with such simple songs. It's Pink Floyd. It's "Another Brick In The Wall". Shut up about the theory and just play the {censored}ing song and entertain the people with it. That's your job. As a band.