Members Sillypeoples Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Dave, do you need a hug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I care and that's why I'm studying tonal harmony in earnest. More than one way to skin a cat. Let's not forget the music and miss the forest for all the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Let's not forget the music and miss the forest for all the trees. Uhhh...you know what that phrase actually means don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Apparently the prevailing attitude here is that anything anybody wants to do on stage is good and if that's the way they are doing it, then that's the way it should be done. No need to offer suggestions for improvement or a counter-opinion. It's all good. No need to discuss anything, really, because it's ALL good. Any Way You Want It, That's The Way You Need It. Use of tracks? How you dress? How you present yourself? What business model you use? What PA you use? It's all good. Anything goes. No right or wrong. Nothing to discuss. The only important thing is that people have a great tone. Which, of course, can be discussed over at the guitar forum. We can close down the forum now. It no longer serves a purpose. If you're good..Most are not but think they are. We don't need to live in reality though, We're musicians!! Re: Music Stands When you have a catalog of 1000 cover songs swimming in your mind, some you don't play for a few years, you can't be expected to know them all cold all the time. Music stands are fine and never hurt me or any competent musician I know. Here in Nashville everyone has charts somewhere in front of them..Now, if the stand is RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF YOU, I believe it's a fail but having charts on a stand to the side for reference if and when needed is totally fine in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 If you're good..Most are not but think they are. We don't need to live in reality though, We're musicians!! Re: Music Stands When you have a catalog of 1000 cover songs swimming in your mind, some you don't play for a few years, you can't be expected to know them all cold all the time. Music stands are fine and never hurt me or any competent musician I know. Here in Nashville everyone has charts somewhere in front of them..Now, if the stand is RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF YOU, I believe it's a fail but having charts on a stand to the side for reference if and when needed is totally fine in my book. Juke box in the corner, you are the happy hour man. charts are part of the pro musican world. We host songwriters and their bands a few times a year. They dont always show up with the same lineups. The new guys always have a chart stashed. Great players ,, to be able to go up almost totally cold with a band and sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm going with a new take on this...There's no need for a music stand with the innovation of the IPad and tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chemikool Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 mic stands onstage??? I just duct tape my mic to my mouth. That's just crazy talk there...I mean...nobody in there right mind would ever.. Oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I've played in shorts and I've played in tuxedos. Depends on the gig. Anything actually does go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rog951 Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 hmmm...and hmmm.... Well, I'd have to say everybody is right here. Maybe even moreso my critics. Can I be an insufferable prick sometimes? Certainly. Am I too verbose? Undoubtedly. Will I argue a point into the ground and them some? Guilty as charged. But the one guy who WAS wrong here is the one who mistook my motivations for starting this thread to be so I could complain about people not agreeing with me. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Of course, when I think I'm right--I think I'm right--and go out of my way to try and make my position clear. But I don't expect agreement. This place would be REALLY boring if everyone agreed on everything. My point in starting the thread is my frustration with the "it doesn't matter/don't give a {censored}" position. I'm fine with arguing about whether things should be done one way or the other. But to argue it doesn't MATTER? THAT drives me up the wall. Why is anyone even here if you think things don't matter? Just to bitch that greedy clubowners and stupid fans don't appreciate your awesomeness? The whole point of this forum--or a big one anyway-- is (or at least should be) IMO, to better yourself and your band. That's why I come here. And I have no doubt my band is many times better because of the discussions, debates and advice given here then it would be otherwise. We should all be trying to better ourselves in all aspects of life. I wake up every day trying to be better than I was the day before. My music included. As live performing musicians we should be striving everyday to play better, sound better, look better, perform better, play better songs, get better gigs, interact with clients and audiences better. But if you believe you've reached the pinnacle of your success...great! Spread the wisdom! Or if you know you haven't, but are fine with where you're at but simply don't care...that's fine too. But don't drag everyone else down with your "doesn't matter/don't care" attitude. Because for many of us who do care it DOES matter. ALL of it. This thread was borne out of my frustration with yet another 'music stands' thread because, while music stands themselves are just a symbol, their advocacy is a symbol for NOT CARING. Not so many years ago, there wouldn't even be ONE thread about the use of music stands in a forum such as this, let alone dozens. The thought of using them in a live rock band setting was simply unheard of (unless almost absolutely necessary, like if you were freakin' Frank Zappa or someone). It was never debated. I never once in years and years of playing asked someone to not use a music stand because nobody who wanted to play in a rock band would even think of it. But yet....here in 2012...it's a MAJOR issue??? So agree with me or disagree with me on issues. I don't care. Actually, it's more fun if you don't. Like or dislike me, or my posting style, or my band. That doesn't concern me either. But don't misconstrue my motives. Which are all based in my care for the need for musicians and bands to be as good as they can be and to strive to be better. If I come off as a jerk sometimes because I'm prodding someone to CARE? I'll take those hits. Gladly. Care about what you do on stage. Be passionate. Be good. Get better. Attack of the paragraphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 May as well shut it down because Guido always manages to shout down everyone else's opinion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caeman Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Mics on stage? A lot of the big performers I've seen pictures are wearing wireless ear pieces now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Uhhh...you know what that phrase actually means don't you? Of course I know what it means. Do you? do you know that a I, ii, V is built by walking backwards through the circle of fifths starting from the dominant? In fact all modal harmonic progressions can be derived this way excep for the IV chord. Still stuck in the trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caeman Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's like shooting a monkey in a barrel full of fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Let's go play and study MUSIC. What a concept, huh? I swear it seems like we'll talk about every other damn thing but that sometimes. For all the talk of wanting to get better...well, last time I checked music is what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caeman Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm at work. They frown on me practicing during work hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 do you know that a I, ii, V is built by walking backwards through the circle of fifths starting from the dominant? Wade, that's pretty much the first lesson anybody learns when they open up a book on music theory. You might want to bust out some more advanced stuff if you're trying to put someone in their place. "Hey, bro--do you know that the 'a' makes the 'ah' sound, like in 'apple'?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I never once in years and years of playing asked someone to not use a music stand because nobody who wanted to play in a rock band would even think of it. But yet....here in 2012...it's a MAJOR issue??? To be fair, good sir, I assure you... it is NOT a major issue. It's only an issue to this specific sub-forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Wade, that's pretty much the first lesson anybody learns when they open up a book on music theory. You might want to bust out some more advanced stuff if you're trying to put someone in their place."Hey, bro--do you know that the 'a' makes the 'ah' sound, like in 'apple'?" I'm not trying to put anyone in their place. But since David in essence denied the existence of a ii, V, I progression in an earlier discussion... I guess I could talk about secondary dominants and their tendency to want a 7 chord? it's hip to wave off theory talk as pedantic and inapplicable...but is that really the right attitude? New ways of looking at old progressions are a good thing. Just like listening to and Playing unfamiliar music is. I dig it anyway; not so much to rap about but again, new ways of looking at things. One friend of mine calls clams "skewing the scale". Lol. How many of us could use the ability to not hit clams, to be able to improvise, to learn and play songs easily? How many Players are stuck in a box, hitting bad notes and afraid to fly? David said he's got bandmates who make mistakes consistently. They should practice their scales so they know where they are in the song at all times! They should also stretch out and go to sitins and jams. But let's not do that! Let's put window dressing on things! That's the way! See, to my mind you gotta play mistake free football and do it without rote memorization. Since we all seem to want a way to stand out from the rest of the pack? Well: do it by being a better musician. Anyone can buy more gear, more window dressing. Takes real effort and dedication to address our faults and grow as musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Of course I know what it means. Do you? do you know that a I, ii, V is built by walking backwards through the circle of fifths starting from the dominant? In fact all modal harmonic progressions can be derived this way excep for the IV chord. Still stuck in the trees? Is your idea of being able to see the forest for the trees clinging to a single tree for dear life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Let's go play and study MUSIC. What a concept, huh?I swear it seems like we'll talk about every other damn thing but that sometimes. For all the talk of wanting to get better...well, last time I checked music is what we do. For the record, this is the BAND forum. Obviously every possible effort should be put into the best musicians we can be. But, for good bad or otherwise, playing music is only one part of being in a BAND. Check out J Paul's thread. Note how much non-music specific stuff occupies his attention. Because ALL that {censored} is necessary to being a successful BAND. Some guys gets that, and some others sit in their tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'm not trying to put anyone in their place.But since David in essence denied the existence of a ii, V, I progression in an earlier discussion... For the record, I didn't deny the existance of it. I questioned whether it was 'correct' to call it that. Numbers are numbers and depending on which letter you establish as your 'key', the numbers would change. It's largely a semantic discussion that largely serves only as a distraction to the goal of playing the song in question as well as you possibly can. Maybe you feel cool or somehow superior to understand that the minor chord that dominate "Another Brick In The Wall" is a really a ii chord while I see it as a i chord. But how does that help you to play the song any better than I do? A: it doesn't. The goal is to nail the song every night and deliver it to the audience in an entertaining fashion. What is the correct theory behind the chord progressions is just about the last thing I can think of that would help in achieving that goal. Forest for the trees, my friend. Forest for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 Our primary songwriter knows theory inside and out, but when it comes to music, what comes out is what comes out. Then we learn what he wrote. Would knowing the progressions help us learn more quickly? Probably. But that isn't how we communicate and nobody asks us to sign our chord progressions on our album after shows. Don't get me wrong, we can stand to be better in many ways, but the music is where we need the least improvement in terms of being "successful." Theory is a very useful part, but it really is more luxury than necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'mHow many Players are stuck in a box, hitting bad notes and afraid to fly? David said he's got bandmates who make mistakes consistently. They should practice their scales so they know where they are in the song at all times! They should also stretch out and go to sitins and jams. No. What would help my guys would be music stands. The only mistakes that happen are dropped notes and forgotten lyrics due to lapses in concentration. Understanding theory, practicing scales and jamming with other players isn't going to make my bass player better remember that the bridge is coming up next rather than another verse so he needs to go to the IV instead of back to the I or make my singer better remember that quick turnaround before the last chorus of "Raise Your Glass". Every band/every musician has their idiosyncracies. I can't even accurately account for the reasons behind what I see as lapses in concentration because I'm not in their heads. My bass player seems to get distracted everytime there's a big pair of boobs near his face. My singer seems to get lost in her own vocal and loses track of where she is in the song. These sort of idiosyncracies vary between being annoying and humorous, but they aren't due to lack of musicianship. And, honestly, border on picking at nits. Truth is, even with those sorts of mistakes, we're playing our show tighter than 90% of the bands out there most nights. Ten years of playing together will usually do that for a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 What is the correct theory behind the chord progressions is just about the last thing I can think of that would help in achieving that goal.Forest for the trees, my friend. Forest for the trees. He was talking about becoming a better musician over all. He used specifics to defend himself. For all this hoo haa about doing your best etc., Wade's point about the music rings true. You can work real hard at no music stands, matching suits, nice lighting, good p.a., etc, but if you are using 100% of your musical knowledge and ability to eek thru the exhilarating progressions in "Another Brick In The Wall", then you ARE missing the forest for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted July 25, 2012 Members Share Posted July 25, 2012 I would say that music is the biggest tree in the forest, but without the rest of the trees it's not really a forest at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.