Can you tell playing an unplugged electric how it will likely sound amped?

[DeepEnd]

Sorry, there's a huge difference between thinking you know something and knowing you know something based on first hand experience. . . .

 

. . . Insisting they sound so awful you cant tell the difference between one instrument and another has no basis in fact, especially to someone like myself who used them regularly for many years. Like I said Its obvious you either have no experience using them or you have tin ears.

 

Did you even listen some audio clips of them being used? Maybe you should. . . .

 

. . . There is wood tone in those strings because they do sound like acoustic guitars, not electrics. So much for your Bronze vs steel string garbage too. As I said, the pickups are balanced to accommodate the bronze wraps and pickup the steel cores. . . .

Yes, it's very clear. I know and you don't. I have decades of actual experience as a guitarist and audience member while you have blind, unreasoning prejudice. I never said amplified acoustics sound "awful." Please quote the post where I did...except of course you can't. An amplified acoustic guitar can sound very nice...to an untrained ear. But it won't sound like a miked instrument. It's a necessary compromise. In the first vid there are differences among the natural sound, the piezo sound and the mag sound but there's no comparison between guitars with the same pickup(s). In the second vid you have two acoustic guitars played through a Triple Rec. Do you honestly think there's any validity to that? The Cortez J200 knockoff clearly sounded artificial with the pickup but given it's a cheap model that's to be expected. You asked me to compare the two vids but compare them to what? Were they recorded with the same mike, in the same position, in the same acoustic environment, at the same level, through the same amp, played by the same guitarist? Do you have a clip that meets these requirements and uses two (or more) different guitars? Preferably blind if not double blind? If you don't, how do you know they don't sound the same? You readily admit you had reached your conclusion before listening. That's called bias. I've listened to more than enough amplified acoustic guitars to know most of them sound pretty generic without the sort of signal processing you mentioned. The Fishman Aura system in particular is based on acoustic modelling, what Fishman calls "imaging." You can make pretty much any guitar sound pretty much any way you like. Attach it to the proverbial cinder block and model away. Voila! You have a D28 or a J200 or whatever else strikes your fancy.

[DeepEnd]

FWIW, I've seen that vid. Yes, as Chordite said, it's wonderful that you hear the three "guitars" unamplified first. It plants the idea that "these guitars sound different." Excellent use of applied psychology. I'm not saying there aren't audible differences. Please reread this part of my post: "I'm not saying the guitar's body/wood/neck/ doesn't contribute at all but the contribution is much more minimal than you seem to think." Further, my disagreement with WRGKMC is in regard to pickups--especially magnetic pickups--installed in acoustic guitars, which your vid doesn't address.

[WRGKMC]

No it won't. That's why amplified acoustic guitars normally tend to sound generic. The pickup, magnetic, piezo, etc., only picks up the vibration of the strings. Those strings can be attached to a guitar or a cinder block and they'll sound essentially the same.

 

This was your statement, not mine. You said acoustic guitars amplified with mag pickups make them sound generic and no better then strings attached to a cinder block.

 

I posted examples to show mag pickups on an acoustic guitars still sound like an acoustic guitars.

 

By your reasoning it "Can't" sound like an acoustic because the pickup only senses the steel string.

 

I disagree and say the vibrations don't stop at the nut and bridge and pass through the wood and back into the strings giving the instrument its unique tones.

 

Of course you can use a Piezo pickup and some electronic magic to make even a cinder block sound like and acoustic. Piezo pickups are commonly added to solid body guitars to mimic acoustics. Its the piezo bridge and preamp used to give this a more acoustic tone.

 

Unfortunately you don't get to hear it acoustically so you can tell how much its sound has been changed by the electronics.

 

[video=youtube_share;hFyQXy74xz4]

 

[Chordite]

sm-micNB I have changed the title of the thread since it has been completely subverted because I included the "T" word.

My bad, shoulda knowed better

[Freeman Keller]

Chordite, if I paraphrase your original question(s)

 

- do different (solid body) electric guitars sound different when played unplugged? The answer is yes

 

- do the differences have any affect on the amplified sound? Some people can convince themselves that it does.

 

- does it matter? Absolutely not -

[mrbrown49]

"I'm not saying the guitar's body/wood/neck/ doesn't contribute at all but the contribution is much more minimal than you seem to think."

 

I don't know man. The differences were pretty dramatic in the vid I posted.

 

 

[hellion_213]

ive never seen an electric guitar whose strings Directly attach to anything wood on the body or the neck. bridge, tuners, yes, ferrules, string trees, nut, never the actual body or neck. and im not saying wood doesnt matter at all, i believe it does impart Slight voicing, its just a minute detail in comparison to other parts that actually deal with the strings and amplification process

[Grant Harding]

I can predict when a guitar is going to be a dog before plugging it in, but the root cause is often setup (usually too low).

 

​​​​

 

 

[Grant Harding]

Can we get a show of hands on who thinks that concrete guitar sounds amazing?

[DeepEnd]

This was your statement, not mine. You said acoustic guitars amplified with mag pickups make them sound generic and no better then strings attached to a cinder block.

 

I posted examples to show mag pickups on an acoustic guitars still sound like an acoustic guitars. . . .

Again, no. I said acoustic guitars with mag pickups (or piezo pickups for that matter) sound generically "acoustic," which is achieved through careful EQ'ing. One of your "examples" was a vid of an acoustic played through a pedal board and a Triple Rectifier, which you seemed to think proved some kind of point, which it doesn't. You didn't demonstrate that the same pickup sounds different in two different guitars and I doubt you can. The Shadow piezo in my main acoustic sounds "okay" if you ignore the slight "quack" during hard strumming. A friend has a Baggs M1 magnetic pickup, which is supposed to sound very "natural," in his acoustic and I've heard and played that guitar many times. I'd give it a "B" at best. I've never--I repeat never--heard an acoustic pickup that sounds like an unamplified guitar.

[Chordite]

You should hear the brick ukulele.

[mrbrown49]

Again, no. I said acoustic guitars with mag pickups (or piezo pickups for that matter) sound generically "acoustic," which is achieved through careful EQ'ing. One of your "examples" was a vid of an acoustic played through a pedal board and a Triple Rectifier, which you seemed to think proved some kind of point, which it doesn't. You didn't demonstrate that the same pickup sounds different in two different guitars and I doubt you can. The Shadow piezo in my main acoustic sounds "okay" if you ignore the slight "quack" during hard strumming. A friend has a Baggs M1 magnetic pickup, which is supposed to sound very "natural," in his acoustic and I've heard and played that guitar many times. I'd give it a "B" at best. I've never--I repeat never--heard an acoustic pickup that sounds like an unamplified guitar.

 

Same pup sounds different in the differenr guitars in the vid i posted.

[Grant Harding]

The lab coat guys will argue that it's in your mind because they can't prove it with theory and all guitar materials sound the same. There's no difference in overtones or harmonics caused by the materials.

[DeepEnd]

Same pup sounds different in the differenr guitars in the vid i posted.

Really? Those were acoustic guitars? Played clean through a proper amp with no effects? I could've sworn they were planks with pickups and necks, played with a decent amount of gain. I guess you learn something new every day. And let's not even mention the whole blind comparison issue.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Simple...NO.

 

For anybody who grew up listening to guitars built in the 70s, some of them sounded as dead as a nun's knickers acoustically but awesome plugged in, and some of them had a great acoustic tone, but sounded nothing special plugged in.

 

Although Gary Moore, was a great advocate of acoustic tone and loudness being an indicator, I think that's as far as I'd go...it maybe an indicator, but it's not a cinder-block rule.

 

Electric guitars have way too many variables that acoustics don't to apply any rule of thumb to them.

[WRGKMC]

Come on man give it a rest. That's not what you said in direct response to my post so quit trying to move the goal post.

 

If you want to change your opinion now, butch up and do so and stop trying to use me as a scape goat.

 

I've already given you examples to support my opinions which are more then sufficient for most people with an open mind to understand. I don't plan on turning this into the personal grudge match you desire.

 

If you have a differing view, then why don't "YOU" provide some evidence to supports "YOUR" opinion instead of nitpicking others with petty details that have nothing to do with the topic.

 

If you cant stick to the topic at hand there's a simple solution which I'm sure would please everyone. Simply put me on your ignore list and you'll no longer feel obligated into turning everything I post into a personal grudge match.

[Grant Harding]

I think that was due to pickup quality at the time.

 

It's unmistakable IMO. A great guitar always sounds and feels lively and sustains in a balanced way across the whole fingerboard. Once you have that it's a no-brainer that the right great pickups will make it sound great.

 

When I pick up a dead guitar there's no way any pickups can make up for what the body and neck are sucking out of the system. Plus the volume and sustain are all over the place across the fb.

[1001gear]

It's ok guys. Carvin's back in biz.

[hellion_213]

There was a post on here the other day that disappeared that summed it up fairly well. went something like - The only thing that matters is what it sounds like plugged in and amped up.

I dont know about the rest of you, but ive never gigged with an unplugged electric. Doesnt matter to me what the sound is acoustically if it sounds weak or like crap plugged in.

[Chordite]

Well thats my point, The OP was about how we assess them in stores unplugged, and how by implication what we should be doing is to ask for an amp to try them all amped rather than just the one we cherry picked.

[Freeman Keller]

That was also my point a few posts ago. No body ever intentionally plays a solid body electric unplugged, no body buys a solid body electric based on how it sounds unplugged, no manufacturer or builder does anything during the building process to try to optimize the unplugged sound. In fact I have a hard time defining "good sounding unplugged electric guitar".

 

It simply doesn't matter

[Freeman Keller]

I'll take that one step farther. I happen to have two L5 clones in my music room right now. As you all know, an L5 is a laminated top guitar with some fairly heavy bracing that the pups are mounted to and a floating bridge. They look somewhat like a true archtop (which I define as a carved solid topped guitar with bracing optimized for top movement). Both of these guitars can be played unplugged but they honestly don't sound all that great. Both of them sound wonderful, but a little different, when plugged in to my little old tube amp. They do have very different pickups - I credit that for the differences.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Say, what ever happened to EmgEsp and his custom Carvin/Kiesel?

[onelife]

I'll play Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate and say that bad pickups can make a good guitar sound bad but good pickups won't make a bad guitar sound good.

[onelife]

When it comes to the physics of stringed instruments, I tend to agree with a lot of what Paul Reed Smith, a very successful guitar builder, has to say. He says that, once the string has been plucked, the guitar becomes a subtractive instrument. In order for the wood to vibrate, it must absorb energy from the vibrating string(s). The magnetic pickup picks up an analog of the vibrational energy that is left in the string at any given moment.