Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Can you not agree on this point though? Look at the event that is the original topic of this thread. Dude had a bunch of explosives and {censored}. Clearly guns aren't the only means of harming people. And definitely not the most practical for killing a lot of people at once. See Syria bus explosion. 7 dead, one bomb and all the people hadn't boarded the bus yet. Yeah, but if it was in the constitution people'd be all upset about their right to carry pipe bombs being infringed upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptosonic Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah I wonder what his "point" is in all of this. What seems somewhat unusual in all of this, is that he wasn't killed in action himself, or take his own life. Usually this is the end result. But here, it seems like he did his shooting, boobytrapped his apartment, and then just stopped, and sat in his car until the police showed up. Maybe a barricade if he designed a way back in to the apartment but doesn't seem likely. I am leaning toward the cops walking into the apartment and his traps going off, so he can hear about it during interrogation. Like a serial killer having it all in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 A security guard with a gun is not the same as a responsible gun owner. It's a security guard, with a gun. Bad idea. Wasn't he neighborhood watch? They aren't even legally security. Lets not give that loon credit where credit isn't due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, but if it was in the constitution people'd be all upset about their right to carry pipe bombs being infringed upon. Wont lie, this is irrational as {censored} compared to owning a a gun. Sorry I can not do as much damage property wise and to life with a gun as I can with explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hangwire Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 They should sell motion detectors for inside homes where instead of a light coming on, the sound of a shotgun being pumped is blared out. Win win win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Why is the news full of negative stories instead of positive, uplifting stories - even though both happen every day?IMHO, it comes down to what draws viewers - I'm sure you've heard the expression "if it bleeds, it leads" - that refers to the leading story of the publication or broadcast. If a person gets brutally killed, that's front page news. If a single woman scares off someone who is trying to break into her apartment by letting them hear her racking the action of her pump shotgun, it's hidden somewhere in the back pages of the local news section of the paper, if it makes it in there at all. Sorry but I don't buy this. If there was a home invasion by me and the homeowner succesfully fought off the intruder by any means, whether they had a gun, a bat or an intimidating voice it would be all over the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Sorry but I don't buy this. If there was a home invasion by me and the homeowner succesfully fought off the intruder by any means, whether they had a gun, a bat or an intimidating voice it would be all over the news. They do report these things when they happen, actually. I've heard them on rare occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Your right to own and use a gun has a lot less to do with "home protection" than this thread seems to acknowledge. Yeah, but if it was in the constitution people'd be all upset about their right to carry pipe bombs being infringed upon. What exactly are you saying? People don't have justification for being upset over an infringement of their constitutional rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah I wonder what his "point" is in all of this. What seems somewhat unusual in all of this, is that he wasn't killed in action himself, or take his own life. Usually this is the end result. But here, it seems like he did his shooting, boobytrapped his apartment, and then just stopped, and sat in his car until the police showed up. Fame. I suspect that he was after fame, and that it had something to do with wanting to tie himself in with the Batman legacy / history in some sick way. Instead of making these people media celebrities, it would be nice if we could somehow deny them that... but it's pretty difficult to do that while maintaining a free press. However, if people didn't watch the media outlets who (sometimes) sensationalize these events and make these guys famous, I suspect we'd see fewer of these stories, and maybe even fewer of these kinds of attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Your right to own and use a gun has a lot less to do with "home protection" than this thread seems to acknowledge.What exactly are you saying? People don't have justification for being upset over an infringement of their constitutional rights? I am saying the constitution should be questioned rather than worshiped. It can be amended for a reason, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, but if it was in the constitution people'd be all upset about their right to carry pipe bombs being infringed upon. Yeah, but what are the upsides of a pipe bomb? Can't really hunt with it. Can't target practice with it, no upside that I know of. At least guns have some purpose. Plus they can be collectible, etc. Haven't seen too many pope bombs that have "collector" status that I know. I do recall from high school, a group of friends that were really into making home made pipe bombs. Not to hurt anyone, just to blow stuff up for fun. The fun stopped though when one day one bomb accidentally ignited and blew off the kids arm, and caused chest injuries too. Never saw the guy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am saying the constitution should be questioned rather than worshiped. It can be amended for a reason, you know. So if the government starts taking away peoples right to free speech and imprisoning us for speaking out, you'd be ok with this as well? I don't worship the costitution but I respect why it was made. Think of how this country came to be. Then think of the current state of things in the world. America has a lot of violence but are we like Rwanda or Syria or Palestine? Gun crime is horrible, but we don't have it nearly as bad. Go talk to families in the middle east that have had their children killed or maimed in front of them because they don't want to side with the radicals. Terrible {censored} happens everywhere. It happens in this country. No matter if it's because someone has a gun or a knife or bare fists. {censored}ed up people will do {censored} regardless. If someone is going to shoot someone, they might take longer to get the courage to kill someone with a knife or with their hands, but sooner or later they will test those waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Sorry but I don't buy this. If there was a home invasion by me and the homeowner succesfully fought off the intruder by any means, whether they had a gun, a bat or an intimidating voice it would be all over the news. Sure, it gets reported on occasion... but because it's less sensational than a brutal killing, it gets less coverage, and less prominent positioning in the publication / broadcast when it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am saying the constitution should be questioned rather than worshiped. It can be amended for a reason, you know. Agree, how do we amend the 2nd amendment to allow proper control of weapons if they are to be allowed still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am saying the constitution should be questioned rather than worshiped. It can be amended for a reason, you know. But not easily. It takes considerable effort and will of the people to amend the US constitution, and it's never happened in terms of the Bill of Rights. In fact, I suspect you'd have a very tough time amending the constitution to change any of the first ten amendments. The constitution would never have been ratified to begin with without the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, and IMHO, you'd face a HUGE uphill political battle if you tried to change any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pedaltones Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Isn't any murder out of control regardless of the means of how they killed the person? On average there are 1,800 people killed from knife crime. Guns are drastically larger with some 50,000 in 2000. But should those 1,800 be over looked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 So if the government starts taking away peoples right to free speech and imprisoning us for speaking out, you'd be ok with this as well? I don't worship the costitution but I respect why it was made. Think of how this country came to be. Then think of the current state of things in the world. America has a lot of violence but are we like Rwanda or Syria or Palestine? Gun crime is horrible, but we don't have it nearly as bad. Go talk to families in the middle east that have had their children killed or maimed in front of them because they don't want to side with the radicals. Terrible {censored} happens everywhere. It happens in this country. No matter if it's because someone has a gun or a knife or bare fists. {censored}ed up people will do {censored} regardless. If someone is going to shoot someone, they might take longer to get the courage to kill someone with a knife or with their hands, but sooner or later they will test those waters. THis is always the reason used when anyone talks about the 2nd amendment. "If you take our guns away, next is speech." No it's not, so stop it. We're talking about 1 issue here, not the whole constitution. The 1700s were a lot different than 2012. Maybe we need to adjust accordingly, that is all. Freedom of speech is not the right to bear arms, different topics, let's not intertwine them here. You seemed resigned to give up, and let the bad people win. I like to think there's another solution, just not sure what it is. But doing nothing, seems to be pretty deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 And this provwes my point. 1,800 can be over looked because people are blinded by an inanimate object and not the fatc people are {censored}e dup regardless of what they have in their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 But not easily. It takes considerable effort and will of the people to amend the US constitution, and it's never happened in terms of the Bill of Rights. In fact, I suspect you'd have a very tough time amending the constitution to change any of the first ten amendments. The constitution would never have been ratified to begin with without the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, and IMHO, you'd face a HUGE uphill political battle if you tried to change any of them. I would agree. We can't even get Congress to pass any common sense legislation, good luck with something as complex as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 THis is always the reason used when anyone talks about the 2nd amendment. "If you take our guns away, next is speech." No it's not, so stop it. We're talking about 1 issue here, not the whole constitution. The 1700s were a lot different than 2012. Maybe we need to adjust accordingly, that is all. Freedom of speech is not the right to bear arms, different topics, let's not intertwine them here. You seemed resigned to give up, and let the bad people win. I like to think there's another solution, just not sure what it is. But doing nothing, seems to be pretty deadly. I used an example. It's the easiest one to remember haha. And yes 2012 is different, we kill people on larger scales with our military. Our government is far more corrupted now. And like already stated you don't do nothing. You make stricter gun laws. Make it harder for {censored}ty people to get guns legally. There are methods to deal with improper gun use. Just takes enough people to stand up for these changes to get them done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 You people haven't heard the story of Stagger Lee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pedaltones Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 And this provwes my point. 1,800 can be over looked because people are blinded by an inanimate object and not the fatc people are {censored}e dup regardless of what they have in their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Fame.I suspect that he was after fame, and that it had something to do with wanting to tie himself in with the Batman legacy / history in some sick way. Instead of making these people media celebrities, it would be nice if we could somehow deny them that... but it's pretty difficult to do that while maintaining a free press. However, if people didn't watch the media outlets who (sometimes) sensationalize these events and make these guys famous, I suspect we'd see fewer of these stories, and maybe even fewer of these kinds of attacks. Hadn't thought of that. Pretty warped if true. I don't think his name will go down in infamy at all, if that's what he's hoping for. I do and probably will always remember Tim McVeigh because of what he did. But most gun shooters seem to fade away, thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IRG Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 And this provwes my point. 1,800 can be over looked because people are blinded by an inanimate object and not the fatc people are {censored}e dup regardless of what they have in their hands. Most knife violence is fairly intimate, like 2 drunk guys fighting over a girl. Some totally innocent victim being killed by knife, like in a movie theater is pretty rare. Of the 1800 victims out there, I bet most of them knew each other, in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aristotle Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Getting back on topic here....The Dark Knight Rises......fuggin' sucked. An anti-Occupy propaganda film is what it really was, not an awesome conclusion to this Batman trilogy. I'm out for the weekend, chumps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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