Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 This not directed at you...I just happened to multiquote you to make sure I addressed the mental health points I want to make. If for some reason it seems like I'm singling you out, I apologize in advance. Soapbox time. Without knowing anything other than what the news has reported, this has schizophrenia written all over it. It is a disorder that tends to manifest in the early twenties. More intelligent people tend to be able to acknowledge that something is wrong and are able to hide it without seeking treatment until their symptoms become very severe. I tend to compare this to older people who are able to compensate for their symptoms of dementia and/or Alzheimers for quite some time before it's obvious to others. I would be very willing to bet that he does not have a personality disorder, especially antisocial personality disorder (which most people call sociopath). I saw a statistic that the prevalence of 'sociopath' is 3%, which I feel is very, very overestimated. Of course, a quick google brings up many results with that 3% figure. The actual prevalence of most personality disorders is less than 1% - but my DSM is at the office, so I can't say specifically what it has to say on the issue. Either way, a person with antisocial personality disorder does things without regard to others for their own gain and without being able to understand that the rules that govern other people's behavior also apply to them. I just don't see that here - but again, I don't have all the specifics. What I feel like happened is that his delusions became too much for him to handle on his own and he believed that he needed to prove some point or do this for some reason. As a person might expect, the delusions and hallucinations that people experience when they are psychotic are very very rarely positive in nature. He may have felt that the movie was inherently evil and corrupting people, or that those people receiving the message ought to be punished in some way. He told the police that he was the Joker and put up little to no resistance when captured - there is a very real possibility that he believed that this would make him into the Joker. I will stop speculating...because that could go on for far too long. I'm curious about what laws prevent people from 'dealing with the mentally ill.' It's absurdly easy to take out involuntary commitment papers on a person for almost any reason (at least in NC). If they are admitted and receive inpatient treatment is another story, however. It's also important to remember that people with mental illness shouldn't just be locked away in some psychiatric ward to be over sedated and shamble around out of sight. That would be a massive step backward in my opinion. Of course, the state of mental health is bleak to say the least - they continue to cut funding for treatment, which will only make matters worse. Just a side note - I do greatly appreciate the use of the spolier tags when talking about the movie The 3% I was referring to is a statistic of how many people, on average, have the brain structure of a sociopath. Very few of those people are actually violent killers. You also need to have certain life circumstances in addition to that brain structure to become a serial killer or something of that nature. Maybe people do not develop those desires simply because their family life was healthy, people treated them well, and they were supported or sought help. However a lot of those people also apply the same sorts of attitudes towards things other than killing. For example, CEOs are far far more likely to be sociopaths than the average person because the same predatory competitive spirit is useful there in business. Others might go into politics (I can think of a few) or be violent in a sports setting like boxing or mma. Others will go into military service so killing is acceptable for them or become high-level academics like, for example, the brain researcher who discovered, while analyzing brain scans of convicted serial killers that there was a specific structure they all had in common that normal brains did not. He then scanned his own family because he was looking for risk factors for alzheimers and discovered his own brain had the sociopathic structure and a lot of things about his own behavior started to make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I could easily get on board with this. I believe that IRG made a point about mandatory mental health assessments prior to being licensed to own firearms. I think (if implemented properly) that it could be a really good idea. If something like that were in place it most likely would have prevented this guy from getting guns. It would prevent him from getting legal guns for sure, but sadly the wealth of illegal guns isn't hard to come by if you put in the effort. I could go buy a dismantled 9mm hand gun right now for $300, assemble it and have a gun that has never been in a store and would never be traced to me. That {censored} isn't cool at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dpizappi Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 No offense taken. I realize we aren't going to be throwing people into institutions en masse. While I do not believe in gun bans, I do believe in prohibiting people who have serious mental health issues from buying guns. Adding this guy's name to a "Do Not Sell" list would have stopped him from buying all those guns legally. This already occurs. Though it's likely that he would not have appeared on any such lists during his background check for a number of reasons:A) he may not have had any history of serious mental illnessB) It appears he may have had a history of depression but voluntary treatment is currently not considered to constitute a history of mental illness under gun lawsC) Database reporting is currently subpar so it's possible that even if he did have some actionable history it would not have appeared in the background check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t-rey Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 It would prevent him from getting legal guns for sure, but sadly the wealth of illegal guns isn't hard to come by if you put in the effort. I could go buy a dismantled 9mm hand gun right now for $300, assemble it and have a gun that has never been in a store and would never be traced to me. That {censored} isn't cool at all. Definitely agreed - but I am assuming that his behavior had become erratic enough (delusional, paranoid, just plain strange) that he would be less able to access illegal guns, unless he already knew someone who could hook him up without being too put off by his behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, sure. Most people can be pushed into this kind of breakdown if they have the wrong experiences. It really sort of annoys me when someone inevitably says "I don't know how anyone could do this!!!!!!" Really? Have you not looked at our current social structures or heard of someone who has been severely abused? It doesn't surprise me in the least that something like this would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inspector 71 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I would send out armies of master ticklers, to tickle every gun owner until they give up their weapons. You aren't aware the tickle confiscation? The mega master ticklers want all the tickles back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yeah, sure. Most people can be pushed into this kind of breakdown if they have the wrong experiences. It really sort of annoys me when someone inevitably says "I don't know how anyone could do this!!!!!!" Really? Have you not looked at our current social structures or heard of someone who has been severely abused? It doesn't surprise me in the least that something like this would happen. I know it increases the odds, but "severe abuse" and "wrong experiences" are not a guarantee that someone will go off like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arthurdent'd Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 You aren't aware the tickle confiscation? The mega master ticklers want all the tickles back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know it increases the odds, but "severe abuse" and "wrong experiences" are not a guarantee that someone will go off like that. That's not what I was implying at all. I meant that it was not that surprising to me that someone who had some really bad experiences could do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d4rk0 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 so hey guys, what's going on in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 so hey guys, what's going on in here? someone broke batman's back in colorado according to the title. i didnt read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 so hey guys, what's going on in here? Sticking our fingers in each others butts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d4rk0 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Sticking our fingers in each others butts. that seems like a strange way to deal with this tragedy, but count me in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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