Whats Happened To TNFrank ?

[roughtrade]

I don't get it. I don't know what you all are so afraid of. I grew up in New York City; in Harlem, just south of 125th street. It was a tough neighborhood. I'm pushing 60 now and I've been a New Yorker all my life. I've never felt the need to carry a gun, even after having been mugged a few times over the years, once at gunpoint. If I'd have been carrying a gun, I'd probably either be dead or in prison by now, I think y'all are just a bunch of frightened little pussies, or else you just need to shoot guns in order to feel like you measure up, if you know what I mean. But what do I know...

Is being mugged like a hobby for you?


You might want to get that checked out.

[Hudman]

I don't get it. I don't know what you all are so afraid of. I grew up in New York City; in Harlem, just south of 125th street. It was a tough neighborhood. I'm pushing 60 now and I've been a New Yorker all my life. I've never felt the need to carry a gun, even after having been mugged a few times over the years, once at gunpoint. If I'd have been carrying a gun, I'd probably either be dead or in prison by now, I think y'all are just a bunch of frightened little pussies, or else you just need to shoot guns in order to feel like you measure up, if you know what I mean. But what do I know...

 

I grew up in Detroit and still live in the Metro Detroit area (20 miles south of Detroit). I drive through Detroit almost every day. I never felt a need to carry a gun.

[Queequeg]

I grew up in Detroit and still live in the Metro Detroit area (20 miles south of Detroit). I drive through Detroit almost every day. I never felt a need to carry a gun.

(There's one in every crowd.)
Hud, does your wife know that you go into Detroit unarmed?
Belle Isle without a Howitzer?
Eastern Market and no Kalashnikov?
That's just crazy.
I can loan you an rpg. don't leave home without it.

[bsman]

... Look at the places with the highest crime rates like Calif., New York City and Detroit and Washington D.C. and you'll also see that they have the most restrictive firearms laws too. Places like Vermont which allows it's Citizens to carry concealed without a permit tend to have lower crime rates

I think you're mistaking cause and effect. I seriously hope you understand that the ONLY relevant difference between Vermont (a largely rural, racially homogeneous state) and the others is not gun laws... I think there are an awful lot of confounding variable to correct for before you can make an assertion that concealed carry = low crime rate... :poke:

[TN.Frank]

http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/blanks/081400.htm

"The simple fact is that those areas in the U.S. with the fewest gun restrictions and highest gun ownership rates also have the lowest crime rates. Even a recent study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, which is well known for its anti-gun bias, reported that the 1994 Brady Law has not had a discernable impact on homicide or suicide rates. The results from this study are completely counter to claims by gun control groups, like Handgun Control, Inc., which have repeatedly claimed that such laws have saved thousands of lives. This aforementioned study also pointed out that crime has been falling for a decade now and it began to fall over three years prior to the passage of the Brady Law. Furthermore, there was no increase in the rate of crime reduction after passage of the Brady Law. In essence, the Brady Law has done nothing to lower crime or violence. Again, this is a continuation of mounting evidence that gun control schemes have no relation to crime or violence prevention."

[FretFiend.]

I don't get it...

That's not surprising.

[FretFiend.]

You only have to take eight hours of instruction and training here to get a concealed carry permit.

Or, you can do what most people do anyway... just carry a gun illegally, with no training or screening at all.

[AgingPicker]

My summary of this thread: Tart: Aye where's Frank. Frank: Here I am. I want a gun. UKers: Rabble rabble GUNS SUCK! Fret: Rabble rabble political jargon TAH RKO and other's without abbrevs.: Shut up fret. Kujozilla: Damnit Frank. Frank: I want a gun. Group continues.

This made me laugh so hard that my Dr. Pepper started running out my nose, and god it burns, it burns!! But it was totally worth it!!
Thanks kujozilla! My day is finally on an even keel,

[Queequeg]

Guns don't kill people.

Bullets do.

[Hudman]

TN Frank - You are far off the mark on your theory why we have a lot of crime in Detroit.

 

It's easy to get a CCW in Detroit. I thought I made that clear numerous times. Any idiot with $120.00 and 8 hours of free time can get a CCW. Big cities with high unemployment usually have a high crime rate. Crime becomes the industry of choice.

[bsman]

I'm actually not saying that more restrictive gun laws = low crime, but pointing out that it's equally invalid to say there is an absolute correlation between gun laws and crime rates. I think they are essentially uncoupled, and there are so many more compelling social, economic, and other variables that they don't really play into the equation. I'll wager that the average neighborhood in the slums of a big city are more highly armed than a similar sized portion of a Vermont city, but this has hardly created a polite society!

[Hudman]

(There's one in every crowd.) Hud, does your wife know that you go into Detroit unarmed? Belle Isle without a Howitzer? Eastern Market and no Kalashnikov? That's just crazy. I can loan you an rpg. don't leave home without it.

 

She writes my name on the waistband of my underwear in the event that I forget to take my pills and get lost.

 

Seriously, our first house was in Lincoln Park, a mere half mile from the Detroit city line. We lived there for 3 years without any issues. We moved when our first born was 3 because the schools weren't rated very high.

[bsman]

BTW -- I currently own two rifles and three handguns, so I'm not exactly virulently anti-gun. I simply think that for most people, keeping a gun at home to thwart the possibility of incurring bodily harm is probably just as likely to be necessary as keeping a gun at home to thwart attack by an escaped tiger...

[Hudman]

 

I'm actually not saying that more restrictive gun laws = low crime, but pointing out that it's equally invalid to say there is an absolute correlation between gun laws and crime rates. I think they are essentially uncoupled, and there are so many more compelling social, economic, and other variables that they don't really play into the equation. I'll wager that the average neighborhood in the slums of a big city are more highly armed than a similar sized portion of a Vermont city, but this has hardly created a polite society!

 

 

It's really simple: Poverty and lack of hope creates the best environment for violent crime. Avoiding violent crime (if you don't live there) is a matter of utilizing good common sense and awareness. You are dead meat if you lack common sense and or have trouble paying attention to things around you.

[guildfire]

It's kind of simple to me. If you want to own a gun, fine you are allowed to under the Constitution and as defined by your State laws. If you don't want to own a gun, that's ok too. But don't try to convince others that you are right and they are wrong. There is no right or wrong - each side has made a choice. So what's the problem?

[Hudman]

 

It's kind of simple to me. If you want to own a gun, fine you are allowed to under the Constitution and as defined by your State laws. If you don't want to own a gun, that's ok too. But don't try to convince others that you are right and they are wrong. There is no right or wrong - each side has made a choice. So what's the problem?

 

 

I never debated a person's right to own a gun.

 

I didn't think anyone was debating that issue. I thought we were discussing the need to carry a gun in public.

 

I never try to convince the other side in a debate that they are wrong. I try to explain my position and understand their position. I hope we come away with a better understanding of each other. Another factor to keep in mind is that many people are in the middle.

 

Why do the people here turn everything into a pissing match? Every debate is turned into a bad Jerry Springer episode.

[guildfire]

People tend to take sides and then try to convince others they are right and others are wrong. I don't mind the debate, but it gets tiring after a while.

[TN.Frank]

I admit, I live in a fairly peaceful town BUT a few years ago an elderly couple just one exit over were killed by a couple of guys that were leaving out of Knoxville and on the run from the law. They needed money and a different car and it was easy enough for them to exit off of the Freeway and drive a couple miles up the road to this couples house. If the man would have answered the door with a pistol in his hand you can bet they'd probably still both be alive. I won't answer the door at night unless I'm armed with something because you just never know who is going to be there.
I've not had a flat tire in many, many years, probably never will but I keep a can of Fix a Flat in my truck Just in Case. I've only had to shoot at someone(actually a car) once in my life(long story, don't want to get into it here) but I was glad that I could.
I spend the first 11 years of my live in Taylor,MI so I'm well aware of what Detroit is like since my uncle lived there as was a pipe fitter for GM. He drank too much sometimes and we'd have to drive downtown to get him. I also spent 16 years in Phoenix/Tempe, AZ. and the last place we lived was pretty much in "Gang Central" off of 35th Ave and McDowell. You'd hear gun shots almost every night. I was always armed "just in case".
In the end it's up to each person as to how far they're willing to go to fight for their life and the lives of their loved ones. I choose to arm myself and fight back in the face of crime, if you choose not to that's fine. It IS a Free country and you can do as you please. Just don't come crying to someone after you or yours are hurt/killed by a criminal because you wouldn't arm yourself and don't ask "Where were the Police?", the police have no reason(not the word I was looking for but you get the picture) to protect you, they only come around AFTER the crime is over. Lord willing I'll do what I can to make sure it's not me or mine that are the ones being zipped up into the body bag.

[Hudman]

 

People tend to take sides and then try to convince others they are right and others are wrong. I don't mind the debate, but it gets tiring after a while.

 

 

 

I don't read or post in threads that I view as tiring or pointless.

[Tartanlad]

Just thinking after awe a know if the UK did sell guns/rifles in stores easily as America does

then i would buy one because many others out there i guarantee would
also arm themselves and so i would just to feel that touch safer incase needed

Although using such you can end up just killing someone even although
you were not the one to blame and end up in prison for a long time
So really guns shouldnt be sold in any Country a feel
that way the criminals wouldnt be able to get hold of such..

And it doesnt tke a brain-surgeon to know
then that no guns then not so much crime or killings
would occur.. just a thought

[TN.Frank]

And it doesnt tke a brain-surgeon to know then that no guns then not so much crime or killings would occur.. just a thought

So there were NO killings or murders or other violent crimes before 1300 A.D. which is about the time that gun powder and firearms came into being.
Nope, sorry, not buying it. People kill, murder and commit crimes, if they didn't have guns they'd use Long Bows or Crossbows and swords and clubs. Humans will find a way to maim and kill each other, guns or not. It's just the nature of our condition.

[Terry Allan Hall]

So what's the problem?

 

 

An excellent observation, and one that bears repeating.

[garthman]

So there were NO killings or murders or other violent crimes before 1300 A.D. which is about the time that gun powder and firearms came into being. Nope, sorry, not buying it. People kill, murder and commit crimes, if they didn't have guns they'd use Long Bows or Crossbows and swords and clubs. Humans will find a way to maim and kill each other, guns or not. It's just the nature of our condition.

So it's not worth trying to improve the situation?

USA homicide statistics:



It's so easy to kill some-one with a gun, isn't it?

[Queequeg]

I never took sides on the gun issue.
...until people started showing up at political rallies with (non-concealed) guns earlier this year, which in addition to being downright stupid, was also threatening to the candidate and made the task of the Secret Service far more difficult. This didn't do much to further the cause of guns rights supporters in my estimation.

[Queequeg]

So it's not worth trying to improve the situation? USA homicide statistics: It's so easy to kill some-one with a gun, isn't it?

The trouble with this chart is that it does not include fatty foods and/or second-hand smoke.