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  • Sonar now free, renamed ‘Cakewalk by BandLab’

    This is a new development. Windows DAW free to download with Sonar Platinum feature set

    They seem to be working with a DONATION TYPE of business model. I received warnings not to download or run by Firefox and Windows Defender.

    https://www.soundonsound.com/news/so...kewalk-bandlab

    Dan
    Last edited by techristian; 04-04-2018, 08:48 AM.
    http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

    http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
    Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

  • #2
    Maybe because it is an EXE from Singapore ? ...unrecognizable. I have it installed. Looks like Sonar. My question with these things are more related to CONTENT STEALING. With any of these apps online, is your content being stolen? With a "free" version even more so?
    Last edited by techristian; 04-04-2018, 09:05 AM.
    http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

    http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
    Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

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    • #3
      Seems odd that they would just put it out there for free. Does it open old Sonar project files?

      I have a bunch of my old Sonar projects, always copied them off to CD-ROMs when I was done, they might not even be readable anymore but I kept an old version of Sonar, I believe it's 7. That might not even work on my PC computers anymore either for all I know.
      Last edited by ggm1960; 04-04-2018, 09:13 AM.

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      • #4
        This is indeed the old SONAR Platinum that was discontinued back in November by Gibson. The IP was purchased by BandLab out of Singapore. This release is basically Platinum without the added bundled products. Meng (Bandlab's Owner) and Noel Borthwick has been keeping folks up to date with the development of the new release over on the Cakewalk forums.

        Currently you can only install it on a Windows machine connected to the internet (my DAW stays off line so I can't install it as of now). Don't know if this is a permanent thing or not. I have asked on the forum if this is will change in the future, but no response thus far. However, another post by Noel seems to indicate that a nearly 'always on' internet connection is the new normal. There is apparently a 'valid through' date after which Noel indicates that, "Since Cakewalk is now free your membership doesn't really end but you have to get updates via BA." (Emphasis mine. Also assuming BA = Bandlab Assistant).

        Based on other posts over at the Cakewalk forums, you also cannot tell the installer where you want to install the software. It defaults to the C:\Program Files directory, regardless of where you might want to put it.

        The third thing I have read (and was confirmed by Noel) is that it no longer supports 32-bit VSTs. So if you have any older VSTs you simply won't be able to use them.

        Will be watching for a while to see how this plays out and how folks respond. It does seem like that they may be taking SONAR down the same road as Adobe and others where you need internet connectivity to use the software. If that is indeed the case, I simply won't be able to use the product. In my area Internet is limited and metered, and an 'always on' connection will simply cost too much, even for 'free' software.

        That's my thoughts on this.

        The Mandolin Picker

        "Bless your hearts... and all your vital organs" - John Duffy

        "Got time to breath, got time for music!"- Briscoe Darling, Jr.

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        • #5
          I received the press release this morning, and I'll be putting it up in HC News momentarily.

          The first thing I thought of when I saw it was to check the calendar - nope, it's no longer April 1st...

          The second thing I thought was "well, that's ONE way to pick up market share."

          I too am wondering what the catch is, but so far, based on Mandolin Picker's post and the press release, there doesn't seem to be anything significant.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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          • #6
            Here's the link to the press release:

            http://www.harmonycentral.com/news/s...ne-to-download


            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you get to store your work locally, or, like with Pro Tools Free, it's all stored on line wherever they want it? Although most of my computers are on-line all the time they're running, I don't think I'd like that to be a requirement for running a piece of software.

              I don't need a DAW, so I'm not going to bite on this, but for someone who has nothing worth exposing to the great outdoors, I'm sure it's a great deal. And no doubt it's a comfort of sorts to existing Cakewalk users that they haven't been completely orphaned.
              --
              "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
              Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Anderton

                I assume it's like other programs - you need internet to install, but then can go offline unless you want to update.
                My sense from reading the info on the Bandcamp web site is that it wants to see that it's connected to the Internet in order to work. I could think of paranoid reasons for that, but of course they wouldn't, would they?
                --
                "Today's production equipment is IT-based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson, Resolution Magazine, October 2006
                Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Anderton
                  I checked with Noel. BitBridge IS included, and you can run 32-bit VSTs in Cakewalk like you could before. However, there is no more 32-bit version of Cakewalk, which means there's no way to run the 32-bit Cakewalk DirectX plug-ins.
                  Are you sure? Although I mainly use Sonar 8.5 on a dedicated machine I bought Platinum and installed it on my Win 10 internet laptop to support the company and try and get comfortable with it in my spare time and the TTS-1 DXi is there unless it was re-coded as VSTi.

                  Just checked the plugin manager and it lists TTS-1 and Groove Player as a DXi. It also lists the Sonitus plugins as DX. Now I'm confused.
                  Last edited by Alndln3; 04-04-2018, 06:01 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MikeRivers View Post

                    My sense from reading the info on the Bandcamp web site is that it wants to see that it's connected to the Internet in order to work. I could think of paranoid reasons for that, but of course they wouldn't, would they?
                    I can also think of paranoid reasons like stealing my WORKS IN PROGRESS. Google already grabs all of my phone pictures.

                    Dan
                    Last edited by techristian; 04-04-2018, 08:26 PM.
                    http://musicinit.com/fastfingers.php An Experiment in 80's Technology

                    http://youtube.com/techristian My YOUTUBE channel
                    Music videos at http://musicinit.com/video.php

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This has been a fun hour or so. I connected to the bandlab link, downloaded Cakewalk and it started to install on my new i7 laptop. Showed "installing" for quite a long time, so I finally just clicked the Cakewalk icon once it established itself on the desktop and was in the program. At that point, I just clicked out of the bandlab box that said it was still installing. If I missed something, I dunno yet what it was.

                      Well, I haven't had a Cakewalk ANYTHING on my computer since the Pro Audio 8 and 9 days. How long ago was that?

                      The cakewalk about info shows a serial and ver 24.04.0 Build 13. It also shows my "membership" is valid thru 10/4/2018. What happens then? Dunno. If it involves money, that's when I uninstall this freebie

                      Anyway, not knowing where Cakewalk has been going the past years, the main screen looks nice and colorful and pleasant. I set a quick asio4all driver setup (maybe not what cakewalk guys do, but I haven't been following CW wdm or whatever stuff) I'll probably connect one of my interfaces for a more thorough run through tomorrow.

                      DON'T HAVE TO BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET AT ALL TO RUN THIS. First thing I did was disconnect after install.

                      Dragged in a Bobby Vinton Blue on Blue track (don't laugh...no..go ahead..laugh I don't care) and have been nosing around the way CW navigation works. Nice and friendly so far on the surface..... but I'll probably never leave Cubase at this point.

                      Stuff I was curious about after reading this thread so I did my own screwing around.....

                      I don't know bitbridge at all but do see it in the menus. What I did is install JBridge a few minutes ago and then pointed it to an old 32bit Vb FFx-dx rack program.

                      Cakewalk sees that just fine when In instigated it on the Vinton track. To get things creepier, I opened the old 32bit Antares Mic modeler Dx plug from a zillion years ago... via ffx4/jbridged..... and it works fine. I also saw a bunch of Sound Forge dx stuff come up in that plug, but haven't dialed any in as I don't really use Dx stuff any more.

                      But 32bit "stuff" seems to be working in Cw as fast as I bridge them to check.

                      I dunno about the old 32bit Cakewalk dx routines Craig mentioned, but if they are in a separate directory/group from some older install, I don't see why one couldn't call them up in the new 64bit Cakewalk the exact same way I did with ffx4/jbridge. Just point ffx4 to wherever all those dxs are. Or am I missing something?

                      The program sorta has a look similar (to me) of the old Bob Lentini Saw... which I guess is still around.

                      And wow............. THERE IS THE "RUN CAL" TAB...... JUST LIKE ON CAKEWALK 2 FOR MIDI FROM THE PREVIOUS CENTURY!!!!

                      What a sight to see that again.

                      I don't see any remote way so far that working in this edition of Cakewalk would automatically hijack your work and upload it someplace on the web. I turned off all analytic tabs... which I had to do in a couple of places... and...like I say, I'm not online while I'm buzzing around the program.

                      The general idea of a connected bunch of people.... collaborating on what I consider to be a very personal type of art ... is...disgus.....no..... well... social media is not part of my artistic world. But I'm glad what's his name, the billionaire's son in Korea or whatever, piled out the money to Henry to buy the CW code and shoved it out there this week.

                      Anyway, lots of fun to peruse the program so far. I'll just leave it on the C drive for now and play around with it.
                      Last edited by bookumdano4; 04-04-2018, 09:02 PM.

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                      • #12
                        By the way, I just uninstalled the Bandlab assistant exe that was the portal for downloading CW. Cakewalk still works fine.

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                        • #13
                          OK, we all know that if it's free, you are not the customer, you are the product.

                          So does anyone know how BandLab intends to make a profit on this?

                          Just curious.

                          Notes
                          Bob "Notes" Norton
                          Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com
                          Style and Fake disks for Band-in-a-Box
                          The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Notes_Norton View Post
                            OK, we all know that if it's free, you are not the customer, you are the product.

                            So does anyone know how BandLab intends to make a profit on this?

                            Just curious.

                            Notes
                            From my successful entrepreneur-based left brain hunches.....I'm just guessing on possibilities based on the 1.5 million members Bandlab has that currently pay nothing for the service...

                            The Tip jar that is used for members to give amounts to member/artists they like is structured in a way that bandlab gets NONE of that...okay... still no income there.... but, it could well be that Stripe (which processes the tips and which does take a small cut of each transaction) is owned by bandlab.... or kicks back a cut of the percentage of transactions to bandlab. That would be one source, structured one level down in the company so as to not affect end-users... keeping the cost free and yet bandlab deriving an income stream from x percent of 1.5mil users who do tips.

                            Bandlab has a small lineup of actual audio interfaces. Those are about $40 or whatever. They sell what they sell. With a full-blown daw now in the owndership, perhaps more interfaces are sold. Profit in each box is about $20 or so, so that would still not appear to be a short-term revenue bonanza... but it is there and maybe bandlab has some vague long-term plans for the admittedly-saturated standalone daw market where daw maker also makes the interfaces. Doesn't sound like a fun move for a billionaire, but maybe there's a future angle there.

                            Maybe bandlab is also developing various other app stuff to offer in a paid ala-carte to the kid users who dive in to the full CW daw after previously only using... whatever it is kids use on their phones at the age of 9 before advancing to a daw where musically inclined. Maybe a developing revenue stream theree.

                            Maybe the kid who owns Bandlab is gonna roll out a full blown recording label and sign stuff that goes viral on his own system. Maybe he's a Simon Cowell type, arriving very late to the "make you famous" machinery approach. But all types of ways to generate revenue off that type of thing.

                            Maybe....... maybe.... for whatever reason...... the billionaire's son in Singapore is simply gunning for Justin. After all, Justin doesn't need the money either after his windfall in the previous century. Maybe the Singapore kid simply wants to be the new Reaper.

                            And maybe..... maybe..... there IS NO longterm revenue plan. When you're a billionaire, well..... sometimes you just do stupid stuff that makes no sense financially because... you can.

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                            • #15
                              As has been said it is always true , if it's free you are the product.



                              Number One: data collection & use - read their privacy policy

                              Number Two (maybe) this - which I have no idea what it means:

                              MUSIC RIGHTS: WITH BANDLAB

                              Music rights are drawn and conceptualised based on the workflow processes we’ve described above, but with technology giving us new possibilities each day, new ways of creating and sharing music are made increasingly available.

                              In BandLab, we pride ourselves on the spontaneity that encourages creation and collaboration. A creation is composed and performed at the same time, while collaborators are invited to adapt, revise, and improvise any way they know how.

                              Instead of traditionally having one Music Work springing up many Sound Recordings, and then linking them to their respective performers, BandLab’s workflow is essentially flipped. Each Revision of a track with added track layers or collaborators becomes a Music Work in its own right, linking to the composers and performers who have a contributor. Each Revision then has the potential to become one Sound Recording.

                              As a user of BandLab, knowing how music rights function in the rest of the world will come in handy. In the event that you, along with your collaborators, would like to commercialise any of your Music Work, a basic understanding of these rights would generate healthy conversations.

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