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techristian

Sonar now free, renamed ‘Cakewalk by BandLab’

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Maybe because it is an EXE from Singapore ? ...unrecognizable. I have it installed. Looks like Sonar. My question with these things are more related to CONTENT STEALING. With any of these apps online, is your content being stolen? With a "free" version even more so?

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Edited by techristian

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Seems odd that they would just put it out there for free. Does it open old Sonar project files?

 

I have a bunch of my old Sonar projects, always copied them off to CD-ROMs when I was done, they might not even be readable anymore but I kept an old version of Sonar, I believe it's 7. That might not even work on my PC computers anymore either for all I know.

Edited by ggm1960

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This is indeed the old SONAR Platinum that was discontinued back in November by Gibson. The IP was purchased by BandLab out of Singapore. This release is basically Platinum without the added bundled products. Meng (Bandlab's Owner) and Noel Borthwick has been keeping folks up to date with the development of the new release over on the Cakewalk forums.

 

Currently you can only install it on a Windows machine connected to the internet (my DAW stays off line so I can't install it as of now). Don't know if this is a permanent thing or not. I have asked on the forum if this is will change in the future, but no response thus far. However, another post by Noel seems to indicate that a nearly 'always on' internet connection is the new normal. There is apparently a 'valid through' date after which Noel indicates that, "Since Cakewalk is now free your membership doesn't really end but you have to get updates via BA." (Emphasis mine. Also assuming BA = Bandlab Assistant).

 

Based on other posts over at the Cakewalk forums, you also cannot tell the installer where you want to install the software. It defaults to the C:\Program Files directory, regardless of where you might want to put it.

 

The third thing I have read (and was confirmed by Noel) is that it no longer supports 32-bit VSTs. So if you have any older VSTs you simply won't be able to use them.

 

Will be watching for a while to see how this plays out and how folks respond. It does seem like that they may be taking SONAR down the same road as Adobe and others where you need internet connectivity to use the software. If that is indeed the case, I simply won't be able to use the product. In my area Internet is limited and metered, and an 'always on' connection will simply cost too much, even for 'free' software.

 

That's my thoughts on this.

 

 

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I received the press release this morning, and I'll be putting it up in HC News momentarily.

 

The first thing I thought of when I saw it was to check the calendar - nope, it's no longer April 1st... ;)

 

The second thing I thought was "well, that's ONE way to pick up market share." :eek2::lol:

 

I too am wondering what the catch is, but so far, based on Mandolin Picker's post and the press release, there doesn't seem to be anything significant. :idk:

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Do you get to store your work locally, or, like with Pro Tools Free, it's all stored on line wherever they want it? Although most of my computers are on-line all the time they're running, I don't think I'd like that to be a requirement for running a piece of software.

 

I don't need a DAW, so I'm not going to bite on this, but for someone who has nothing worth exposing to the great outdoors, I'm sure it's a great deal. And no doubt it's a comfort of sorts to existing Cakewalk users that they haven't been completely orphaned.

 

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I assume it's like other programs - you need internet to install, but then can go offline unless you want to update.

 

My sense from reading the info on the Bandcamp web site is that it wants to see that it's connected to the Internet in order to work. I could think of paranoid reasons for that, but of course they wouldn't, would they?

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I checked with Noel. BitBridge IS included' date=' and you can run 32-bit VSTs in Cakewalk like you could before. However, there is no more 32-bit version of Cakewalk, which means there's no way to run the 32-bit Cakewalk DirectX plug-ins.[/quote'] Are you sure? Although I mainly use Sonar 8.5 on a dedicated machine I bought Platinum and installed it on my Win 10 internet laptop to support the company and try and get comfortable with it in my spare time and the TTS-1 DXi is there unless it was re-coded as VSTi. :idk:

 

Just checked the plugin manager and it lists TTS-1 and Groove Player as a DXi. It also lists the Sonitus plugins as DX. Now I'm confused.

Edited by Alndln3

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My sense from reading the info on the Bandcamp web site is that it wants to see that it's connected to the Internet in order to work. I could think of paranoid reasons for that, but of course they wouldn't, would they?

 

I can also think of paranoid reasons like stealing my WORKS IN PROGRESS. Google already grabs all of my phone pictures.

 

Dan

 

Edited by techristian

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This has been a fun hour or so. I connected to the bandlab link, downloaded Cakewalk and it started to install on my new i7 laptop. Showed "installing" for quite a long time, so I finally just clicked the Cakewalk icon once it established itself on the desktop and was in the program. At that point, I just clicked out of the bandlab box that said it was still installing. If I missed something, I dunno yet what it was.

 

Well, I haven't had a Cakewalk ANYTHING on my computer since the Pro Audio 8 and 9 days. How long ago was that?

 

The cakewalk about info shows a serial and ver 24.04.0 Build 13. It also shows my "membership" is valid thru 10/4/2018. What happens then? Dunno. If it involves money, that's when I uninstall this freebie :)

 

Anyway, not knowing where Cakewalk has been going the past years, the main screen looks nice and colorful and pleasant. I set a quick asio4all driver setup (maybe not what cakewalk guys do, but I haven't been following CW wdm or whatever stuff) I'll probably connect one of my interfaces for a more thorough run through tomorrow.

 

DON'T HAVE TO BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET AT ALL TO RUN THIS. First thing I did was disconnect after install.

 

Dragged in a Bobby Vinton Blue on Blue track (don't laugh...no..go ahead..laugh I don't care) and have been nosing around the way CW navigation works. Nice and friendly so far on the surface..... but I'll probably never leave Cubase at this point.

 

Stuff I was curious about after reading this thread so I did my own screwing around.....

 

I don't know bitbridge at all but do see it in the menus. What I did is install JBridge a few minutes ago and then pointed it to an old 32bit Vb FFx-dx rack program.

 

Cakewalk sees that just fine when In instigated it on the Vinton track. To get things creepier, I opened the old 32bit Antares Mic modeler Dx plug from a zillion years ago... via ffx4/jbridged..... and it works fine. I also saw a bunch of Sound Forge dx stuff come up in that plug, but haven't dialed any in as I don't really use Dx stuff any more.

 

But 32bit "stuff" seems to be working in Cw as fast as I bridge them to check.

 

I dunno about the old 32bit Cakewalk dx routines Craig mentioned, but if they are in a separate directory/group from some older install, I don't see why one couldn't call them up in the new 64bit Cakewalk the exact same way I did with ffx4/jbridge. Just point ffx4 to wherever all those dxs are. Or am I missing something?

 

The program sorta has a look similar (to me) of the old Bob Lentini Saw... which I guess is still around.

 

And wow............. THERE IS THE "RUN CAL" TAB...... JUST LIKE ON CAKEWALK 2 FOR MIDI FROM THE PREVIOUS CENTURY!!!!

 

What a sight to see that again.

 

I don't see any remote way so far that working in this edition of Cakewalk would automatically hijack your work and upload it someplace on the web. I turned off all analytic tabs... which I had to do in a couple of places... and...like I say, I'm not online while I'm buzzing around the program.

 

The general idea of a connected bunch of people.... collaborating on what I consider to be a very personal type of art ... is...disgus.....no..... well... social media is not part of my artistic world. But I'm glad what's his name, the billionaire's son in Korea or whatever, piled out the money to Henry to buy the CW code and shoved it out there this week.

 

Anyway, lots of fun to peruse the program so far. I'll just leave it on the C drive for now and play around with it.

Edited by bookumdano4
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By the way, I just uninstalled the Bandlab assistant exe that was the portal for downloading CW. Cakewalk still works fine.

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OK, we all know that if it's free, you are not the customer, you are the product.

 

So does anyone know how BandLab intends to make a profit on this?

 

Just curious.

 

Notes

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OK, we all know that if it's free, you are not the customer, you are the product.

 

So does anyone know how BandLab intends to make a profit on this?

 

Just curious.

 

Notes

 

From my successful entrepreneur-based left brain hunches.....I'm just guessing on possibilities based on the 1.5 million members Bandlab has that currently pay nothing for the service...

 

The Tip jar that is used for members to give amounts to member/artists they like is structured in a way that bandlab gets NONE of that...okay... still no income there.... but, it could well be that Stripe (which processes the tips and which does take a small cut of each transaction) is owned by bandlab.... or kicks back a cut of the percentage of transactions to bandlab. That would be one source, structured one level down in the company so as to not affect end-users... keeping the cost free and yet bandlab deriving an income stream from x percent of 1.5mil users who do tips.

 

Bandlab has a small lineup of actual audio interfaces. Those are about $40 or whatever. They sell what they sell. With a full-blown daw now in the owndership, perhaps more interfaces are sold. Profit in each box is about $20 or so, so that would still not appear to be a short-term revenue bonanza... but it is there and maybe bandlab has some vague long-term plans for the admittedly-saturated standalone daw market where daw maker also makes the interfaces. Doesn't sound like a fun move for a billionaire, but maybe there's a future angle there.

 

Maybe bandlab is also developing various other app stuff to offer in a paid ala-carte to the kid users who dive in to the full CW daw after previously only using... whatever it is kids use on their phones at the age of 9 before advancing to a daw where musically inclined. Maybe a developing revenue stream theree.

 

Maybe the kid who owns Bandlab is gonna roll out a full blown recording label and sign stuff that goes viral on his own system. Maybe he's a Simon Cowell type, arriving very late to the "make you famous" machinery approach. But all types of ways to generate revenue off that type of thing.

 

Maybe....... maybe.... for whatever reason...... the billionaire's son in Singapore is simply gunning for Justin. After all, Justin doesn't need the money either after his windfall in the previous century. Maybe the Singapore kid simply wants to be the new Reaper.

 

And maybe..... maybe..... there IS NO longterm revenue plan. When you're a billionaire, well..... sometimes you just do stupid stuff that makes no sense financially because... you can.

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As has been said it is always true , if it's free you are the product.

 

 

 

Number One: data collection & use - read their privacy policy

 

Number Two (maybe) this - which I have no idea what it means:

 

MUSIC RIGHTS: WITH BANDLAB

 

Music rights are drawn and conceptualised based on the workflow processes we’ve described above, but with technology giving us new possibilities each day, new ways of creating and sharing music are made increasingly available.

 

In BandLab, we pride ourselves on the spontaneity that encourages creation and collaboration. A creation is composed and performed at the same time, while collaborators are invited to adapt, revise, and improvise any way they know how.

 

Instead of traditionally having one Music Work springing up many Sound Recordings, and then linking them to their respective performers, BandLab’s workflow is essentially flipped. Each Revision of a track with added track layers or collaborators becomes a Music Work in its own right, linking to the composers and performers who have a contributor. Each Revision then has the potential to become one Sound Recording.

 

As a user of BandLab, knowing how music rights function in the rest of the world will come in handy. In the event that you, along with your collaborators, would like to commercialise any of your Music Work, a basic understanding of these rights would generate healthy conversations.

 

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Thanks Book and Electro

 

A few of these crossed my mind, and you added a few more.

 

This purchase marks the first time I heard about BandLab. I tried to send them a question but there is no contact info that I could find on the website. I didn't want to join another forum just to ask a question or two I can't count the number of forums I've joined just to get an answer to a product I already own, and never went back to because that's all I needed to know I am even members of forums of companies that are no longer in business like Carvin Audio and Parker Guitars. I don't need more to ask curious questions.

 

I am curious because I mostly do MIDI sequencing on Master Tracks Pro (discontinued) and then finish audio work on a DAW. I prefer to do the MIDI work on a non-audio sequencer because without the clutter of audio tools and menus with sub menus and sub-sub menus I spend much more time with my hands on the musical instrument controllers and much less time on the computer.

 

MTPro doesn't work on Win10 or OSX so I'm using it on an old computer. That will eventually go belly up - everything has an expiration date. I'll eventually need to do MIDI on a DAW and get around the clutter, and Cakewalk and Sonar are probably front runners.

 

So I'm curious on how they intend to make a profit. In other words, what will I pay for this.

 

Perhaps I'm being too American non-billionaire. But experience teaches that if you want to dance you have to pay the fiddler. I just want to know what I'm paying beforehand.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

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MTPro doesn't work on Win10 or OSX so I'm using it on an old computer.

 

 

That will eventually go belly up - everything has an expiration date. I'll eventually need to do MIDI on a DAW and get around the clutter, and Cakewalk and Sonar are probably front runners.

 

 

hahahahaha..... I too STILL use MtPro 6.8.4 for the past few years but I still have all my win/atari/mac discs going back to 1988.

 

MTPRO 6.8.4 WORKS BEAUTIFULLY ON 64BIT WIN10 PRO AND HOME!!!!!!

 

Stellar, beautifully, always installs in moments and NEVER gives me an issue. It's been great on everything I've ever used it on from Atari 520/1040, Mac Plus, Win98se, xp, 7, and now 10.

 

I often have it running on a separate synchronized machine in my daw farm and...like you.... use it still because I know it with my eyes closed and it is very easy on the eyes, what with the spartan (compared to the 21st century) screen layouts. Everything you need for midi sequencing right there.

 

I also have it on my laptops (both win10) and often open both MtPro and Cubase and toggle between screens. I have loopbe1 virtual midi cable routed out of MtPro and in to Cubase, set to trigger different vstis... although mostly the newest Roland Virtual Sc88/8820. When I'm on the go with my laptop, I use a little Alesis usb keyboard (one that also has sustain pedal input as i dunno how anyone does without a sustain pedal)... and then route that usb midi keyboard as the input on MtPro's midi setup screen.

 

When I need to export midi files out of MtPro and import into Cubase, it's a cinch... although I tend to keep midi on MtPro.

 

In sync, overdubbing audio on Cubase while midi plays on MtPro is a flawless experience.

 

While the guy who now owns Passport doesn't really do any updating of the MtPro program, everything I need works great. In its most recent updates a century ago, the ability to set different pulse rates was useful and of course, not being limited to 7 character names (or whatever that was that we all had to live with in dos years).

 

Go ahead..... install MtPro on your win10 system. If you don't already have the contents of your ver 6.8.4 floppy transferred to data you can store on a hard drive or flash, just pop in your floppy to a usb ext floppy drive... win10 easily handles those.

 

Start the install, point mtpro to install in programfilesx86..... or even just let it install to program files where it tries to default to.... and let it install!!!

 

Once the program is running, set your preferences the way you always have, maybe create a desktop icon on the taskbar (I do), and voila......Passport survives well into the 21st Century!

 

I just bought a new i7/Win10 laptop a couple of weeks ago and thought, "oh no, this will be the system that won't allow MtPro". It actually is the first system I've ever had that wouldn't let me install the ancient V-Stack program.... oh well.

 

But MtPro installed in less than a minute with no hiccups.

 

And is working fantastically every day.

 

Such a great great little program. Glad it's no longer $400 or whatever it was in 1988.

 

 

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Well, I've had the cheap version of Sonar for about a year and a half. So I went ahead and joined this BandLab thing. Thought, well, I've got this piece of music I'm not going anywhere with so I'll upload it and see if anyone wants to do anything with it. So I upload it...And go to playback and it's playing back so freaking slow I barely recognize it. Then the Bandlab thing wants to use my microphone....

 

So I'm suspicious already.....

 

 

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I never had MTP but the stripped down version called TRAX.

 

WORLD DOMINATION.....of DAWS that is. Could that be the motive?

 

As Logic is in every new Mac now, so will be BandLab on every Windows machine.

 

In the future, they might even get a kickback from Microsoft or have this in a Win10 update !

 

Dan

Edited by techristian

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I'm leery about any company out of the orient. They do not respect intellectual and copy right laws and until they do and begin to prosecute violators I don't want any software running unchecked on my computers. Heck I don't even have a Facebook account. How could I guess it owner would wind up in front of congress? 40 years in the electronics business.

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Maybe that's why it's free...because it would be a losing battle to charge for it.

 

It's like my old joke about how to get a million copies of your music out into the world: Leave a CD at the Moscow airport :)

 

 

You left off the other part of the secret - you have to name your band "American Politician's Sex Video." Make sure that's also clearly written on the CD and case too... ;)

 

 

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I never had MTP but the stripped down version called TRAX.

 

Dan

 

Wow, I remember having that, maybe was the first sequencer program I ever had on my first PC, a 386. That was a long time ago!

 

 

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I'm leery about any company out of the orient. They do not respect intellectual and copy right laws and until they do and begin to prosecute violators I don't want any software running unchecked on my computers. Heck I don't even have a Facebook account. How could I guess it owner would wind up in front of congress? 40 years in the electronics business.

 

Then I guess you don't use Google as a search engine or have a Google or Microsoft account -- and you don't use any of those cloud storage apps or any other social media, because they all collect your data and sell it to whoever wants to buy it.

 

Even the Windows, Apple and Android operating systems collect your data and sell it to whoever they can.

 

On the other hand, if you are most concerned about privacy, the European countries in the EU guard it best.

 

Notes

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Bandlab has just informed me that there is an update and they also asked me to send up my project. I haven't started one yet. This computer was offline for a week so this may have happened a week ago.

 

Dan

Edited by techristian

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Bandlab has just informed me that there is an update and they also asked me to send up my project.

 

 

Bandlab can send up $8000 if they really want me to whip up a short project for them to share with the kiddies. Otherwise, not a happening deal. I do though, like this version of Cakewalk. First one historically that I didn't have to buy. I thank Bandlab for that.

 

 

 

 

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