Members strtdv Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Looks like the OP has wisely left the discussion. Without getting too embroiled in the ethical debate (my own personal opinion is that once an item sells on ebay the seller has an ethical obligation to ship it, regardless of whatever the legal position is), I will say this: what goes around comes around. It's bad karma to flake out on a deal, and you will end up on the other side of it someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 For the welcher lovers: #17 is not for the faint of heart, read at own risk:cop: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=welch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BarneyGumbel Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 The easiest thing to do is contact the buyer, explain the situation, offer a full refund plus $30 for wasting his/her time. You get to keep the guitar and they get a free $30 for being slightly inconvenienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 The easiest thing to do is contact the buyer, explain the situation, offer a full refund plus $30 for wasting his/her time. You get to keep the guitar and they get a free $30 for being slightly inconvenienced. Not got a problem with this. If the buyer agrees to change the deal, who could argue. Its the ones that are just saying pull out, tell him its broken etc etc that I have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ballhawk Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 I decided to save this entire thread offline. Fascinatingly informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcooper830 Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 This is why I never sell my stuff. I sold some of my Epiphone Les Pauls a couple years ago and I still miss those guitars terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 For the welcher lovers: #17 is not for the faint of heart, read at own risk:cop:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=welch Welching is a funny word but what we called it when I was a kid too. I've always thought it was honorable to keep your word. Being human we may slip but an honest man always kept his word and was known for that with both friends and family. Today though, it seems as if we're more likely to check if something is legal before even considering if it's honorable. Too much of a "Me first and screw everyone else" attitude. You would think that would be the general attitude here when reading the endless threads of buying at GC, Best Buy, CL, Ebay and everywhere else you care to name. Most of them, complaints about the most trivial things. So I was pretty surprised about how many of you posted telling the seller to do the right thing. Very cool. As for those that suggested the OP welch out of the deal well... justify it anyway you need to that lets you sleep at night. I'm just glad I don't need to deal with you. At least to me, that's very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Wow, missed the excitement. I don't think that there is anything wrong with asking an opinion about a matter like this. Perhaps he was looking for some kind of support to do something that he probably felt deep down inside wasn't kosher. He got some, but in the end he came up with a solution that isn't that bad. My question though would be if the guitar sold for twice as much as he was expecting would he feel the same way? I have a hard time thinking that it would be case because I know for me I'd have shipped it that day regardless. I always look at this kind of thing as give and take and all about karma. I've had a lot of luck in my life and while some of it is just dumb luck I think that a lot of it comes down to your actions. You aren't always going to make out like a bandit and some times you'll come out on the short end, but as long as you do what's right the majority of the time it's going to at least come out even in the end. But at the end of the day it all comes down to how you want to be treated and how you feel about yourself due to your actions. If you would be understanding about someone else doing the same thing to you than I am sure that it won't bother you. But if you have that feeling that you did something wrong chances are it is wrong. Guitars and stuff will come and go, you can always buy another. You can't buy your integrity or self respect back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Have it your way. To me that makes you a {censored}wad. And yes, If you are going to declare some kind of moral superiority for learning your ethics and integrity in Arizona...then expect what comes with it. Now run along now and go patrol your border... {censored}wad? Seriously? I suppose I need to go back and brush up on my Breakfast Club insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Not got a problem with this. If the buyer agrees to change the deal, who could argue.Its the ones that are just saying pull out, tell him its broken etc etc that I have a problem with. Which is what I said all along and, if I'm not mistaken, that's the offer the OP was going to make to his buyer (except a different amount of cash I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Holy Arizona Border shootouts Batman! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Yeah but you think its OK to stick a Fender logo on a Squire based Frankenstrat! And I am 59 if that is relevant in some way. Just consider your own approach next time you get scammed. Funny that, I've never been "scammed". Maybe it's some kind of Karma? And again, I think you fail to grasp the difference between someone putting a Fender decal on a guitar and telling someone that it is a decal for aesthetic purposes and someone that is deliberately trying to pass something off as the genuine article. IMO, there is a huge difference, but I understand now after the umpteenth time, that the concept is completely beyond you. While, in general, people should try to stick to their agreements, things happen, circumstances change, and as long as the other party is not injured or suffers any real monetary or property loss (besides some disappointment) I'm in favor of cutting people some slack. For the record, I have more than 550 positive feedback scores from Ebay over the past 8+ years as a buyer, seller, and trader of music gear, cameras, and audio/video equipment. 99% of people have been honest and easy to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Funny that, I've never been "scammed". Maybe it's some kind of Karma? And again, I think you fail to grasp the difference between someone putting a Fender decal on a guitar and telling someone that it is a decal for aesthetic purposes and someone that is deliberately trying to pass something off as the genuine article. IMO, there is a huge difference, but I understand now after the umpteenth time, that the concept is completely beyond you. Actually, no.. Changing the logo of a guitar from one brand to a very similar other brand is not a case of an aesthetic enhancement. It's fraud. Even if you don't sell the guitar, it's still intended to give a false impression of the guitar. If you like the Fender logo, then get a tattoo.. Don't alter the branding of an item you are more than likely going to sell someday, and probably make a fatter profit on because of said rebranding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oaksong Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 If you like the Fender logo, then get a tattoo.. Is it still fraud if you don't pay fender a licensing fee for the tattoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Actually, no.. Changing the logo of a guitar from one brand to a very similar other brand is not a case of an aesthetic enhancement. It's fraud. Even if you don't sell the guitar, it's still intended to give a false impression of the guitar. If you like the Fender logo, then get a tattoo.. Don't alter the branding of an item you are more than likely going to sell someday, and probably make a fatter profit on because of said rebranding.. Actually it wasn't ME that did it, it's an old, old thread....and getting the tattoo would be a violation of trademark and copyright laws. Again, since there is no loss, there is no legal recoup on the Fender/Squier thing- and technically a Squier is a FENDER product through and through. Why don't you take your attitude over to the custom build thread and tell the builder not to put the Gibson inlay on his handmade guitar. That would be a better use of your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JTEES4 Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Ask him how much $$ it would take to make him happy if you walk away from the deal. I'd offer $25 or send the damn guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Is it still fraud if you don't pay fender a licensing fee for the tattoo? Only if you try to sell yourself and pass yourself off as a real Fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Actually it wasn't ME that did it, it's an old, old thread....and getting the tattoo would be a violation of trademark and copyright laws. Again, since there is no loss, there is no legal recoup on the Fender/Squier thing- and technically a Squier is a FENDER product through and through. Why don't you take your attitude over to the custom build thread and tell the builder not to put the Gibson inlay on his handmade guitar. That would be a better use of your time. If he's inlaying the Gibson logo, I'm on it.. If he's using a block or a trapzoid, meh.. You can't copyright such basic shapes.. The Fender logo, on the other hand, is fairly distinct. Plus, on the tattoo thing, only the scumbag tattoo artist that puts it on you is going to get in trouble. The only thing "Fender" about a Squier is the parent company. Just like an LTD ain't an ESP, an Epiphone ain't a Gibson and an Applause ain't an Ovation. No matter how badly Squier/Epi/LTD owners want to wish their item was the "real deal", it ain't.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 If he's inlaying the Gibson logo, I'm on it.. If he's using a block or a trapzoid, meh.. You can't copyright such basic shapes.. The Fender logo, on the other hand, is fairly distinct. Plus, on the tattoo thing, only the scumbag tattoo artist that puts it on you is going to get in trouble. The only thing "Fender" about a Squier is the parent company. Just like an LTD ain't an ESP, an Epiphone ain't a Gibson and an Applause ain't an Ovation. No matter how badly Squier/Epi/LTD owners want to wish their item was the "real deal", it ain't.. LOL! No he won't for Christ's sake. You people here have so little concept of how copyright and trademark laws work and what their purpose is. :facepalm: There is no demonstratable loss by having a Fender tattoo on your body. LOL! Ignorant.:facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Unauthorized commercial use of a logo will get you sued. Unauthorized use of Marvel comic book characters got an airbrush artist I know a cease and desist letter from the law firm of Duey, Cheetum and How.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oaksong Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Only if you try to sell yourself and pass yourself off as a real Fender. gotcha, otherwise it is just copyright infringement. Which is like... 8 billion in damages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oaksong Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 LOL! No he won't for Christ's sake. You people here have so little concept of how copyright and trademark laws work and what their purpose is. :facepalm: There is no demonstratable loss by having a Fender tattoo on your body. LOL! Ignorant. :facepalm: These days it basically doesn't matter. Some of the recent cases involving music didn't have to show a loss. That said, PARODY is ok. SO, all you have to do is have both a Fender AND a Gibson logo... with the Fender logo raping Gibson. As it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 New view: {censored} all of you Welcome to my world view. Oh wait, what am I saying? ... Get the hell out of my world view! While I don't wholeheartedly agree with the way OP is handling this I don't completely disagree either. Hope things work out for both parties and we can go back to bashing Creed or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etawful Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Unauthorized commercial use of a logo will get you sued. Unauthorized use of Marvel comic book characters got an airbrush artist I know a cease and desist letter from the law firm of Duey, Cheetum and How.. This is correct. If Fender really wanted to pursue it (doubtful), they could go after the tattoo artist for infringing on their trademark. You don't have to sell a competing product with their logo in order for it to meet the legal standard of trademark dilution or violation. Legally, a manufacturer has the final say over the use of their logo in any format and on any media (including the body of someone fool enough to get a corporate logo inscribed permanently in their flesh). Legally, an artist would need permission from Fender in order to reproduce their logo for any commercial purpose (charging someone to place the logo on their body would constitute a commercial purpose). The person getting the tattoo would not be liable for any violation of trademark (any more than they would be if they bought a t-shirt with the logo that came from an unlicensed source). However, to reproduce a trademarked logo for commercial gain would require the authorization of the trademark holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 These days it basically doesn't matter. Some of the recent cases involving music didn't have to show a loss. That said, PARODY is ok.SO, all you have to do is have both a Fender AND a Gibson logo... with the Fender logo raping Gibson. As it should be. PARODY would be if I made a user name like "Croakdong".. PARITY, on the other hand........ Well that's something alltogether different =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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