I sold my guitar on ebay...and dont wanna go through with it...

[67mike]

The only real difference is the dollar amount and which court it would be litigated in. Hell, under many circumstances if you verbally agree to sell an item at a given price or to perform a certain task for a certain amount of money, you still have a legally binding contract. It's harder to prove, but verbal contracts can be as binding as written ones if there is sufficient proof that both parties made the agreement willingly.

You can always get of of contracts.

[Oaksong]

There is a big difference in not being selfish/self centered and being a doormat for others to take advantage of.

 

 

Right, and sometimes that line is one that is difficult to find. People people seeking to take advantage of you will accuse you of being selfish, etc, in order to do so. So, some of the strategies people use to deal with this involve varying levels of "fine, I shall be selfish then". This does not preclude them from still being non-selfish, even most of the time. But it does make them harder to take advantage of.

[CoqBelliqueux]

It's not the first time I notice people on here with loose ethics, nice to see so many being open about it. What's strange is this is also a place for trade, sooo....

 

Brian, you don't get that many opportunities to show or prove who you are, jump on this one and make it count!

[BryanMichael]

The only real difference is the dollar amount and which court it would be litigated in. Hell, under many circumstances if you verbally agree to sell an item at a given price or to perform a certain task for a certain amount of money, you still have a legally binding contract. It's harder to prove, but verbal contracts can be as binding as written ones if there is sufficient proof that both parties made the agreement willingly.

And most states have a cooling off period for any contract to be binding. So there you have it. California however doesn't have that law, but most states do. In much the same way some states have sales tax rules about interstate commerce and such. I can guarantee that most of you self righteous douchebags have downloaded music or software from the Internets illegally.

[Oaksong]

The only real difference is the dollar amount and which court it would be litigated in. Hell, under many circumstances if you verbally agree to sell an item at a given price or to perform a certain task for a certain amount of money, you still have a legally binding contract. It's harder to prove, but verbal contracts can be as binding as written ones if there is sufficient proof that both parties made the agreement willingly.

 

 

I deleted that because it was straying from topic, but oh well. This is true.

[Spike Li]

Yeah, this thread is pretty scary.

+1

The OP seems to have done the right thing tho, good on you

[etawful]

Right, and sometimes that line is one that is difficult to find. People people seeking to take advantage of you will accuse you of being selfish, etc, in order to do so. So, some of the strategies people use to deal with this involve varying levels of "fine, I shall be selfish then". This does not preclude them from still being non-selfish, even most of the time. But it does make them harder to take advantage of.

 

 

So how is someone who legitimately paid for an item pursuant to a pre-agreed set of terms trying to take advantage of someone by expecting to receive the item they paid for?

[Norbix]

There's negative feedback for a reason. Just take a hit if it's worth that much to you and then lesson learned. Don't be pressured by these guys telling you otherwise. Ebay isn't what it used to be, you have to minimum bid everything these days.

"that's what's wrong with this country" this one made me laugh.

[turdadactyl]

Ok people, I think this is getting out of hand. People are calling each other scum and evil and such. This is the INTERNET, you don't know the people, and communications are never as clean and elegant as we might want them to be.

 

 

Your post was pretty clean and clear where you said "tough {censored} for him." If you could PM me your ebay user ID, I'd like to make sure I NEVER deal with you.

 

To all the people who said "do what you want" or "you can get out of a contract" or "screw the buyer," your ethics are without question, less than stellar. (And no, I'm not perfect and I haven't done the right thing in every situation in my life.) The concept of the golden rule clearly is lost on you. And your shortsightedness is obviously going to limit you from seeing the full impact here.

 

Maybe you haven't thought about the fact that:

-The buyer and seller entered into a contract and one's word should be honored. All too often these days people think that you're an idiot for even holding that notion.

 

-The seller, even in desperate times should have prioritized before listing. If this was one of 9 guitars, but now it's so hard to let go, he may not have thought through it well enough at the start...but that's not the buyer's problem.

 

-The buyer may have passed up other buying opportunities because he relied on the seller's representations of a binding contract. Therefore, refunding his money will NOT put him back into the same position where he could have been. (If you want to Google "consequential damages" you might learn a little something legally speaking.)

 

-As someone else said, the buyer may have bought this guitar for a particular purpose or a particular gig. Again...he relied on it coming to him as part of a binding contract.

 

-As an ebay user, you agree to their terms of use. Those TOU say you are entering into a binding contract. Man up.

 

-There is no difference between backing out of a small contract or a large contract from a moral/ethical perspective. It's simply a difference in dollar value.

[Axeslinger]

As I said in an earlier post that lots of fools who dont read the whole thread seem to have missed...i have 499 100% positive feedback and said to the guy I will honou=r my part of the deal, explained that it was a huge mistake on my part and asked if it was at all possible to refund his money in full + an extra 50 for his trouble. I'm now awaiting his reply and will act accordingly. So ultimately I will have done nothing wrong and WONT be gettting my first negative. I simply made a mistake here (haven't you ever?) and have already learned a lesson regardless of the outcome. I fully expect the guy to want me to send him his guitar...and as I said I will. Albeit sadly.

Good for you! That's exactly what you should do:thu:

[Oaksong]

So how is someone who legitimately paid for an item pursuant to a pre-agreed set of terms trying to take advantage of someone by expecting to receive the item they paid for?

 

 

Not saying they are, just pointing out that all the moral outrage and screaming at people is a bit out of place. People come to these things from different places, judgement on their entire person is not necessary. And yes, I am looking at you.

 

That said, from my brief searching online, it looks like he can probably cancel the sale legally. Buyers at least can cancel no problem, and ask for a refund. Finding info on the seller's side has been harder. But that is more for legal perusal.

[Oaksong]

(And no, I'm not perfect and I haven't done the right thing in every situation in my life.) The concept of the golden rule clearly is lost on you. And your shortsightedness is obviously going to limit you from seeing the full impact here. -There is no difference between backing out of a small contract or a large contract from a moral/ethical perspective. It's simply a difference in dollar value.

 

 

Congrats, you aren't perfect. I disagree that small and large contracts are purely differences in dollar value.

 

You ever said to someone "I will get over there by XX time" and then not shown up. Was it a huge moral lapse? No. You made a mistake. The OP made a mistake, one that I think it SUCKS. I would not think less of him for refunding and backing out.

[BryanMichael]

Morals and ethics have no place here. A business contract is not a moral obligation. Contracts break all the time, contractual law is set up to protect people from LOSS due to contracts breaking down. There is NO LOSS HERE - If the money refunded. Speculations of whether or not this person lost "gig income" due to not receiving the guitar are BULL{censored} too. The buyer could play a gig with any available guitar. If they have access to any other guitar- that argument would get thrown out- their ability to perform the gig/job does not hinge on having that one particular guitar for Christ's sake. Have any of you ever been through a lawsuit? I have.

And Arizona? seriously? That's where you learned about "honor and integrity"? Yeah, I see what kind of "honor and integrity" they have in Arizona...

[etawful]

Not saying they are, just pointing out that all the moral outrage and screaming at people is a bit out of place. People come to these things from different places, judgement on their entire person is not necessary. And yes, I am looking at you. That said, from my brief searching online, it looks like he can probably cancel the sale legally. Buyers at least can cancel no problem, and ask for a refund. Finding info on the seller's side has been harder. But that is more for legal perusal.

 

 

Am I the only one that finds it comical that you are on this thread saying it's okay for him to just back out of the deal while spamming a guitar for sale of your own in your sig? Buyer beware.

 

That said, a buyer can back out by not paying the money (which is just as bad as a seller backing out after the close of the auction), by retracting their bid before the end of the auction (this is not technically allowed but you can do it under certain circumstances such as having bid the wrong amount, etc.), if they receive the merchandise and it's not as advertised, they are entitled to a refund, etc.

 

A seller however, if they list the product, it sells, and they accept payment, they should follow through. Unless, of course, they practice the "me first, {censored} everyone else" philosophy.

[turdadactyl]

Congrats, you aren't perfect. I disagree that small and large contracts are purely differences in dollar value. You ever said to someone "I will get over there by XX time" and then not shown up. Was it a huge moral lapse? No. You made a mistake. The OP made a mistake, one that I think it SUCKS. I would not think less of him for refunding and backing out.

 

 

You clearly don't understand what a contract is. Your example is not a contract. A contract requires two or more parties to have a meeting of the minds and to exchange "consideration" - AND INTEND TO FORM A CONTRACT. In the case of the sale of goods, the consideration on one side is usually money and the other side is the good (in this case the guitar).

 

Your example is a promise...but not a contract.

 

Since I assume you don't want to go to law school, you might read this if you want to know what a contract is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

 

But I suspect you don't care.

[etawful]

And Arizona? seriously? That's where you learned about "honor and integrity"? Yeah, I see what kind of "honor and integrity" they have in Arizona...

I see, so your idea of honor and integrity is to not follow through on your deals? Odd. I'll take my way.

(Note: I notice your incredible leap of foolishness in assuming that somehow being raised in Arizona equates to agreeing with the idiocy of their lawmakers, not exactly true . . . should I also take that to mean that you think being raised in the US means you agree with the actions of Congress or any President?)

As to lawsuits - I was a paralegal for nearly a decade. I've participated in and been party to more lawsuits than I'd care to count. I've done work for both sides in actions ranging from breach of contract to sexual discrimination. I've worked on cases from small claims on up to filings with the US Supreme Court. I've seen verdicts (from both judges and/or juries) ranging from $10,000 to $75 million. Yeah, I've been involved in lawsuits.

[Spike Li]

Morals and ethics have no place here. A business contract is not a moral obligation. Contracts break all the time, contractual law is set up to protect people from LOSS due to contracts breaking down. There is NO LOSS HERE - If the money refunded. Speculations of whether or not this person lost "gig income" due to not receiving the guitar are BULL{censored} too. The buyer could play a gig with any available guitar. If they have access to any other guitar- that argument would get thrown out- their ability to perform the gig/job does not hinge on having that one particular guitar for Christ's sake. Have any of you ever been through a lawsuit? I have. And Arizona? seriously? That's where you learned about "honor and integrity"? Yeah, I see what kind of "honor and integrity" they have in Arizona...

I think you are really missing the point here. Its just Ebay, its not like the OP will get into huge legal trouble (or any at all) if he does refund and refuse to deliver, its just the general consensus that doing so would be a douchebag move... is that seriously so hard to see?

I mean, if you were the buyer and the OP said to you "well, you see I actually want to keep this guitar now, I dont want your money", you wouldnt think the guy was being a dick??

[Oaksong]

I think you are really missing the point here. Its just Ebay, its not like the OP will get into huge legal trouble (or any at all) if he does refund and refuse to deliver, its just the general consensus that doing so would be a douchebag move... is that seriously so hard to see? I mean, if you were the buyer and the OP said to you "well, you see I actually want to keep this guitar now, I dont want your money", you wouldnt think the guy was being a dick??

Ok, Fair enough. the more I think about this... I was wrong. I was thinking more in terms of "it's ebay, {censored} it" than much moral thinking.

Good for the OP. I suck. Lol.

[BryanMichael]

I see, so your idea of honor and integrity is to not follow through on your deals? Odd. I'll take my way. (Note: I notice your incredible leap of foolishness in assuming that somehow being raised in Arizona equates to agreeing with the idiocy of their lawmakers, not exactly true . . . should I also take that to mean that you think being raised in the US means you agree with the actions of Congress or any President?)

The difference between you and me is if someone sold me something on Ebay and then sent me a note saying "I'm sorry, I was selling this for financial reasons, but things got better and I'd really like to keep it. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience and I will refund every penny."

I would say "I'm really disappointed, but I'm glad things are looking up for you." and be DONE with it.

You, on the other hand would rather crucify the guy on the {censored}ing cross of morals and ethics and all holy self-righteousness and DEMAND that they follow through with their "sacred" contractual deal.

Have it your way. To me that makes you a {censored}wad. And yes, If you are going to declare some kind of moral superiority for learning your ethics and integrity in Arizona...then expect what comes with it. Now run along now and go patrol your border...

[Oaksong]

The difference between you and me is if someone sold me something on Ebay and then sent me a note saying "I'm sorry, I was selling this for financial reasons, but things got better and I'd really like to keep it. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience and I will refund every penny." I would say "I'm really disappointed, but I'm glad things are looking up for you." and be DONE with it. You, on the other hand would rather crucify the guy on the {censored}ing cross of morals and ethics and all holy self-righteousness and DEMAND that they follow through with their "sacred" contractual deal. Have it your way. To me that makes you a {censored}wad. And yes, If you are going to declare some kind of moral superiority for learning your ethics and integrity in Arizona...then expect what comes with it. Now run along now and go patrol your border...

Also good.

I think I am going to go with both parties. Yes, it is wrong to cancel contracts just because. It is more wrong to be psycho about it, instead of expecting people to just be human.

New view: {censored} all of you

[etawful]

The difference between you and me is if someone sold me something on Ebay and then sent me a note saying "I'm sorry, I was selling this for financial reasons, but things got better and I'd really like to keep it. I'm really sorry for the inconvenience and I will refund every penny." I would say "I'm really disappointed, but I'm glad things are looking up for you." and be DONE with it. You, on the other hand would rather crucify the guy on the {censored}ing cross of morals and ethics and all holy self-righteousness and DEMAND that they follow through with their "sacred" contractual deal. Have it your way. To me that makes you a {censored}wad. And yes, If you are going to declare some kind of moral superiority for learning your ethics and integrity in Arizona...then expect what comes with it. Now run along now and go patrol your border...

LMAO . . . first - My problem is with the people who say "{censored} the guy, just refund his money and don't ship" or the ones who say "lie to him tell him it's broken". I have no problem with up front business transactions (which is why, if you read my posts you will see where I talk about mutual agreement) but, obviously, you chose not to read. Nowhere did I say he had to ship it without once contacting the buyer to see if he was willing to change the agreement.

Second, if you read what I actually said when I mentioned having been raised in Arizona, you'd notice that I was merely contrasting it with the comment about England, NOT claiming superiority hell, it's fairly obvious from the wording that what I was saying was "hell even in Arizona they taught me this". BTW, I haven't been back to Arizona in over 20 years.

You really have reading comprehension problems don't you?

Go back, re-read my posts (you might want to do so without your holier-than-thou sunglasses on). When you do so, you might actually notice where I said that the OP was taking the right action in offering to refund the guys money and hell even toss in a little extra for the trouble. However, you won't do that, since your goal isn't to read what I said, it's to read what you wanted to see.

BTW - you can keep your BS about "border patrolling" out of it. If you can't tell from the prior post, I'm not a supporter of the whole concept. . . but then again, the mere fact that you couldn't pick up on it proves my point. Your goal is to see what you wanted to read, not what was actually there.

[Oaksong]

You really have reading comprehension problems don't you?

 

 

Seriously guys, in the middle of all the moralizing, could we at least refrain from personal insults.

 

Yeesh.

[etawful]

Seriously guys, in the middle of all the moralizing, could we at least refrain from personal insults. Yeesh.

 

 

Let me get this right . . . he calls me a "{censored}wad" and you say nothing. I point out his inability to comprehend what I've said repeatedly and you chose that to comment on?

 

Yeesh.

[Oaksong]

Let me get this right . . . he calls me a "{censored}wad" and you say nothing. I point out his inability to comprehend what I've said repeatedly and you chose that to comment on? Yeesh.

 

 

I quoted you, but It was aimed at everybody.

 

So, yeah, please no "{censored}wads" either. That said, his comment was at least kinda part of his argument, yours was just... there.

[knotty]

What are you a {censored}ing knight of the round table? My brother is an honest guy, but I'm sure if I think about it, he's probably broken his word to me once or twice in the last 40 years- doesn't mean I don't trust him. Same with girlfriends, bosses, friends, bandmates, and....people and general! How old are you? {censored} happens. The OP had all intention of selling this to solve his problem. Now he's found a better way to solve it. Unfortunately it involves "breaking his word" to some stranger that he has never met. In a perfect world....... I say your own happiness is greater than what amounts to some capitalist obligation to some stranger. End of story.

 

 

Yeah but you think its OK to stick a Fender logo on a Squire based Frankenstrat!

And I am 59 if that is relevant in some way.

 

Just consider your own approach next time you get scammed.