Will a 2 or 4X12 cab make my combo louder?

[tlbonehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlbonehead no it isn't. Hey, tlbonehead, did you miss my question? If you thought I was being a smart alec, I wasn't. I truly would like your opinion on my question. That's how I learn; by picking the brains of you guys with more experience and knowledge. Thanks, Steadfastly.

ok, EXACTLY, what is your question?

[Steadfastly]

ok, EXACTLY, what is your question?

 

 

See posts 35 & 37. Thanks, Steadfastly.

[cratz2]

OK... I never meant to make a difference between 'sound louder' and 'sound different'. If it seemed that way, I apologize as it was never my intention.

What I specifically meant was if I have an amp of a reasonable wattage, say 15 watt, open back AC15. And I can run that 15 watts through a single given speaker... lets keep them all Greenbacks. My contention is if I run that 15 watts into a single Greenback and I find that it doesn't give me quite the loudness and relative cleanness capability that I desire, say single coils into the amp with the volume at 7... that if I add an open back 2x12 with 2 more Greenbacks so that one of the output taps go to the internal 16 OHM Greenback and the other tap goes to two 8 OHM Greenbacks wired for 16 OHMs, that the 3 speaker set up won't play a bit more loudly?

In essence, adding 2 more identical speakers in a similar configuration (all open back cabs) won't increase the volume at the same amp settings?



To be honest, I've never done this using all identical speakers, but if I do exactly this with either my Tweed Deluxe (with a Silver Bell) or my AC15 (with a Celestion Blue) and I add my 2x12 that has one Blue Dog and one G12H30, it takes either amp from sounding reasonably loud to sounding quite a bit louder than I need keeping the same amp settings. None of these speakers are being pushed quite to their maximum abilities, certainly not with the Tweed Deluxe.

[tlbonehead]

See posts 35 & 37. Thanks, Steadfastly.

We didn't decide that a 4x12 was too much for the amp. Maybe you did. There's nothing wrong with using a 4x12 with low power if it gets you where you want to be tonally.

[Steadfastly]

We didn't decide that a 4x12 was too much for the amp. Maybe you did. There's nothing wrong with using a 4x12 with low power if it gets you where you want to be tonally.

 

 

So, do you think there is enough power in his amp to push the 4x12?

 

My other question was what do you think about splitting two 2x12's if the stage was large enough so it would distribute the sound better (more evenly)? Thanks, Steadfastly.

[tlbonehead]

? My other question was what do you think about splitting two 2x12's if the stage was large enough so it would distribute the sound better (more evenly)? Thanks, Steadfastly.

Why wouldn't there be? I use 5 watt amps with 4x12s occasionally. As for your second question, depends on what you are trying to do. Your amp will probably sound less loud on stage with the sound field separated like that. But if you need to do it for the members on the other side of the stage to hear you, it could make sense. Otherwise, just let the FOH do it if it is the crowd you are concerned about.

[LYSOL]

Try a Marshall 18watt head and get back to us when you're done wiping the cum out of your drawers.

YOU will be the one drenched in cum when I turn on my JCM800 stack!
(100watt head/300watt quad)

[Steadfastly]

Why wouldn't there be? I use 5 watt amps with 4x12s occasionally. As for your second question, depends on what you are trying to do. Your amp will probably sound less loud on stage with the sound field separated like that. But if you need to do it for the members on the other side of the stage to hear you, it could make sense. Otherwise, just let the FOH do it if it is the crowd you are concerned about.

 

 

Well, I guess if you can push a 4x12 with 5watts, 20watts is a no brainer. Thanks for the "sound" lesson.

[IamBurnout]

YOU will be the one drenched in cum when I turn on my JCM800 stack! (100watt head/300watt quad)

I play a 2203 myself.

That doesn't negate the bliss of NMV amps.

[Faber]

Heh, and here I thought I was asking a simple question

Thanks for all the input, contradictory as it is it cleared up one thing - I'll just have to get an extention cab and try for myself

[LYSOL]

I play a 2203 myself. That doesn't negate the bliss of NMV amps.

But the 800 negates the 18watter!

[59humbucker]

So, do you think there is enough power in his amp to push the 4x12?

 

 

When I was amp shopping with my guitar teacher he tried a vox AC4 through a marshall 4x12 and it sounded awesome, even in 1/4 watt mode

[IamBurnout]

But the 800 negates the 18watter!

That's like saying that a Deluxe Reverb negates a Champ, or a Strat negates a Tele.

This is entirely untrue.

The 800 and 18 are completely different animals.

[GCDEF]

OK... I never meant to make a difference between 'sound louder' and 'sound different'. If it seemed that way, I apologize as it was never my intention. What I specifically meant was if I have an amp of a reasonable wattage, say 15 watt, open back AC15. And I can run that 15 watts through a single given speaker... lets keep them all Greenbacks. My contention is if I run that 15 watts into a single Greenback and I find that it doesn't give me quite the loudness and relative cleanness capability that I desire, say single coils into the amp with the volume at 7... that if I add an open back 2x12 with 2 more Greenbacks so that one of the output taps go to the internal 16 OHM Greenback and the other tap goes to two 8 OHM Greenbacks wired for 16 OHMs, that the 3 speaker set up won't play a bit more loudly? In essence, adding 2 more identical speakers in a similar configuration (all open back cabs) won't increase the volume at the same amp settings? To be honest, I've never done this using all identical speakers, but if I do exactly this with either my Tweed Deluxe (with a Silver Bell) or my AC15 (with a Celestion Blue) and I add my 2x12 that has one Blue Dog and one G12H30, it takes either amp from sounding reasonably loud to sounding quite a bit louder than I need keeping the same amp settings. None of these speakers are being pushed quite to their maximum abilities, certainly not with the Tweed Deluxe.

There's no reason why it would, unless as I said, you're playing the amp at high output levels and the single speaker is getting close to its maximum output.

The part you seem to be having trouble is is that the amp produces 15 watts and no more. That full power can go to a single speaker, or multiple speakers, but it's still the same power no matter how much you divide it up. One speaker can do all the work, or three speakers can do 1/3 of the work each. The total work done is still the same.

Think about the water flow analogies that have been posted.

[LYSOL]

That's like saying that a Deluxe Reverb negates a Champ, or a Strat negates a Tele. This is entirely untrue. The 800 and 18 are completely different animals.

 

 

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

[IamBurnout]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

 

 

An AC30 can be louder than a 100 watt plexi.

 

Wattage ratings don't really mean squat, unless the amp is solid state.

 

I'm a metal head too, BTW.

[Bro Blue]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

So, you never play anything smaller than stadiums?

The actual dB level between a 30 watt and 50 watt amp is not as great as most people think. The only difference, especially in Marshalls, I have found 100 watt amp to have in usefulness over a 50 watt is headroom.

['s mel gibson]

Get another amp. Any amp, and run it as a slave.

[Special J]

You should net an increase of approximately 3db of spl with a 2x12, about 6db with a 4x12, due to the effect of mutual coupling. Again, depends on efficiencies of speakers and cabinets, if you're using identical drivers, etc.

[almightycrunch]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

 

 

yeah, well maybe playing in a garage with your radio shack PA system, and your drummer in a roid rage. This is an old topic that I really do not wish to get into but, you can gig with a five watt amp, its all in sound reinforcement and monitoring.

[59humbucker]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

 

 

Quoted for idiocy:facepalm:

 

In any moderately sized venue, even if you're playing a 100w tube stack, you should be mic'ing the guitars, otherwise you're defening the first 2 rows and no one further back hears {censored} all.

 

When you mic a guitar cab, how many speakers are you mic'ing?

 

1

 

Which just so happens to be the same number as in an average combo.

 

Secondly, my 40w tube marshall is louder than my friends 150 SS marshall.

 

Watts do not equal loudness

[Belva]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

 

I'd hate to be in a band with you. You'd have to have the spotlight and want to drown out everyone else.

And it's true that if you have a single 12 in one spot and a 212 in a different spot you'll end up with the perception of a louder amp just because of the way sound travels. Different angles = wider dispersion

I suggested investigating spl of the OP's current speaker for 2 reasons. First it would cost less to get one speaker. Second is it's a whole lot easier to move a single 12 combo than a whole {censored}ing stack.

[Flogger59]

You should net an increase of approximately 3db of spl with a 2x12, about 6db with a 4x12, due to the effect of mutual coupling. Again, depends on efficiencies of speakers and cabinets, if you're using identical drivers, etc.

 

 

OK, Mr Math back after taking a lot of stick. I had originally left out a LOT of variables in my first post in order to offer the OP a less complicated response.

1) Changing the output resistance of a power amp affects the power rating. Why did Super Reverbs go from 45 to 70 watts? 2 ohm load (as well as other mods to Silverface) If you drop an amp from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm load, it tends to deliver more watts, not necessarily the double, but more.

 

2) The speakers in my first post were of the theoretical kind, not the real world kind that can compress when they approach their handling limits. I should have explained that better.

 

3) Coupling advantages can vary depending on cabinet construction. Put two ported bass cabs on their sides and the amount of coupling can vary, depending if the ports are adjacent or not.

 

That's my piece.

[GCDEF]

OK, Mr Math back after taking a lot of stick. I had originally left out a LOT of variables in my first post in order to offer the OP a less complicated response. 1) Changing the output resistance of a power amp affects the power rating. Why did Super Reverbs go from 45 to 70 watts? 2 ohm load (as well as other mods to Silverface) If you drop an amp from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm load, it tends to deliver more watts, not necessarily the double, but more. That's my piece.

 

 

That's not the case with tube amps. Solid state amps deliver the more power into lower loads, tube amps deliver the most power when the load and the OT are matched. Changing the tap on the OT doesn't change the power output.

 

I agree with 2 and 3. Coupling isn't guaranteed and it usually occurs at specific frequencies. An across the board 6dB isn't going to happen.

[Yarbicus]

To me a tube amp under 50 watts minimum has absolutely zero usefulness.

 

 

I had been thinking that the another thread about whether or not a 335 could do metal had the dumbest posts in it. You have proven me wrong.