Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 Downloaded the manual for it and printed it out to read. I see the manual is in the standard format Behringer uses, which is not very informative and reader friendly. They could take a lesson from Mackie in that area. I have a couple products from Behringer and 5 years later they still work (knock on wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 As a foil to your third-hand report of horrors from days long past, here's a first-hand experience: I bought one of the Behringer analog mixers a few years ago. In the first month it developed a noisy channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/article/behringer-x32-32-channel-16-bus-total-recall-digital-mixing-console/15125Street price $2400. Designed by Midas (owned by Behringer) using Midas engineers, parts and circuitry. Will record 32 tracks simultaneously thru firewire according to tech support's response to my query. Will ship with the firewire adapter pre-installed. Also hooks up to the Behringer version of the Avion for a fraction of the price and it has a digital snake designed by Klark Teknik (also owned by Behringer). This is going to change the face of live and studio sound. High end will be affordable by home studios. This will be the bain of sound system rental companies. Bands will be able to purchase what they used to only be able to rent.There are links to other youtube videos at the end of the one embedded on the above article that get into more detail about the product. Even Sweetwater is featuring videos about it.Look, I know Behringer sucked in the past. Many companies have improved leaps and bounds over the years. Take my car for instance. I have owned new Mercedes, Saab 9000, high end Volvo, BMW M3. I know cars. The best, most balanced car I have ever had with the least amount of trouble is my current Sonata 2.0 Turbo. They used to be the worst car on the road. Not anymore. The South Koreans are going to rule the road with their product.Same with Behringer. They bought the right companies for pennies on the dollar and they are making great use of them. This X-32 is just the beginning. I use Presonus now and love it, but this is going to be hard for any company to beat. What is it about this board for live applications, that makes it so much better than the Studiolive other than 16 buses?? I mean, the effects are yet to be seen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deanmass Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 Times change, companies evolve. I have seen companies in many areas go from {censored} to great and back to {censored}. Behringer has no where to go but up. RE: Firewire and USB. In my experience, Firewire pummels USB, but, I have not pushed more than 4 tracks recorded at once. but, for data transfer, it OWNS USB, because unless I am mistaken, firewire is a true duplexed spec. USB is serial, a long fast line to one door. I honestly do not undertand why we are not seeing SC style Fiber Optic connectors more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 Firewire and USB 2 & 3 have a place in the studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 ... firewire is a true duplexed spec. USB is serial, a long fast line to one door.Good point. My understanding is that with USB, both directions share the same transmission line, whereas with firewire each direction has its own. So in theory, you get the max datarate in both directions at the same time for Firewire but not for USB. This is one reason why Firewire can be a lot better for disk drives, and would also be better in audio applications where bidirectional throughput is important. I find that I never play lots of channels; I rarely use more than a stereo send, since I don't do separate monitor mixes through the computer, and don't do external analog processing. (Note that I'm talking about soundcard channels, not DAW tracks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 USB also requires software support at the host, whereas FireWire has its own hardware. This has become less of an issue with powerful computers, as they can afford to spend a few machine cycles on USB and not notice a performance hit. My experience is not about rigorous scientific testing, but I've noticed a few things. FireWire seems more finicky than USB. USB 2.0 has all the bandwidth I need as long as I'm not running 96kHz, and seems more forgiving than FireWire. Internal cards are great, but I have a pile of cards that are no longer compatible with any computers I own. As to Behringer, I try to be as open-minded and neutral as possible. I have never been a Behringer fan although I do feel some of their products, like the DDX mixer, were well-designed and reliable (and an exception to the rule). However, it does indeed seem like there are some major changes going on. I recently cornered a Behringer rep for the scoop, and he said it was all about acquiring Midas. He felt the expertise they acquired was invaluable. I think their modular DJ mixer concept was one of the most creative products at Winter NAMM, and I'm seeing the company change gears into putting more effort into products and quality control. The transition is by no means complete, and I'm sure they'll always cultivate the low-end market, but the direction of their transition seems clear. IOW my personal "Behringer radar" has gone from "whatever" to "keep an eye on this company." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 FWIW - yes, the good products Behringer has had in its line-up are rare, but they do exist. I have a BCR2000 rotary MIDI knob controller and it's a very solid bit of gear. I assume the BCF2000 fader-equipped version is just as good. I'm all for Behringer hanging in there - they are always inexpensive, so when they accidentally make something good, it's not just a bargain, it's a steal! nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 The new MacBook Pro does not even have FW ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm all for Behringer hanging in there - they are always inexpensive, so when they manage to Xerox the schematics of a good product designed by Aphex, Mackie, or Roland, it's not just a bargain, it's a steal! Oh so fixed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 6, 2012 Members Share Posted July 6, 2012 I run 16 channels in and out from my pc via firewire with no issues what so ever. Works very well for me. Back to the Behringer 32 board. From what I've read this will be a game changer and others will follow suite. Its integration with the Powerplay devices they are now selling is a huge benefit for studio and live. Ive been looking at the Powerplay personal mixers for live room use and its a game changer also. Well it should drive down the cost of the competition which is 3 times the cost and doesnt offer the same features. Key to me is the integration of the Mackie and HUI (which it has) and how deep it goes. And its preamps of course. Cant wait to hear the reviews. I have no issue buying Behringer stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 7, 2012 Members Share Posted July 7, 2012 Does that speaker make that chick's hair do that dumb flip thing in the front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 7, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 From what I've read this will be a game changer and others will follow suite. Its integration with the Powerplay devices they are now selling is a huge benefit for studio and live. Ive been looking at the Powerplay personal mixers for live room use and its a game changer also. The people it will "change the game" for are those with a small budget, a long wish list, and just enough knowledge to get them into trouble. Do you want more people like that competing with you for jobs? Or doing your sound? Professional sound companies and venues won't stop buying DigiCo or Yamaha and start buying Behringer. No games changed there. Tell us how it's changed YOUR game when you get one. Maybe you'll have to buy a new van to haul it in, and you can use that to take the kids to their soccer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 7, 2012 Members Share Posted July 7, 2012 Does that speaker make that chick's hair do that dumb flip thing in the front?Like a Van de Graf generator? I think it's like a Jersey Girl style or something. But maybe I'm stuck back in the Working Girls era. (Along with others, perhaps.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 7, 2012 Members Share Posted July 7, 2012 The people it will "change the game" for are those with a small budget, a long wish list, and just enough knowledge to get them into trouble. Do you want more people like that competing with you for jobs? Or doing your sound? Professional sound companies and venues won't stop buying DigiCo or Yamaha and start buying Behringer. No games changed there. Tell us how it's changed YOUR game when you get one. Maybe you'll have to buy a new van to haul it in, and you can use that to take the kids to their soccer game. I dont make money from recording and or do sound for bands. What little recording I do, is for free and or just for myself. Its a hobby in some ways, but more than that. Some guys spend their mad money on race cars, boats, guns, etc... I have a home studio (over 900 sq ft) and spend it on gear. I own two mini vans so that is not an issue All my kids are grown, so no more soccer But for someone like me (not a professional) this is a great product !!! If... it performs like they say. The intregration of Mixer/Interface (32 channels), Control Surface, and the easy connectivity of the Powerplay personal monitor gear is great. I own a Mackie 1640i and before that the 1640 and Im happy with those. If this was a Mackie product it would be a no brainer for me. I can see this being a nice mixer for a small venue like a pub, nightclub, etc.. who is on a budget like you mentioned. And for a home guy like me, if the sound is great, it may be a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 7, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 I can see this being a nice mixer for a small venue like a pub, nightclub, etc.. who is on a budget like you mentioned. And for a home guy like me, if the sound is great, it may be a winner. I don't know if it would be a good idea for a pub or small club unless there was a full time house engineer to go along with it. It doesn't take but a few minutes for a mixing engineer to figure out an analog console that he's never used before, that it's different with digital consoles. While the fundamental operating principles on most of them are pretty similar (select a channel or an output, then mess with it using a common set of controls) things are in different places, and nomenclature is different. There's a lot to get accustomed to in the relatively short time you have to set up, do a sound check, and get the show started. This is why Yamahas are so popular - because they're so popular visiting engineers get used to them (sort of like Pro Tools). I can see where you might have a lot of fun with it doing what you do, but I doubt that it will change your game. But you never can tell. Maybe you'll decide to buy two or three, teach the local band enginneers how to use it, and then rent them out. Or perhaps you might find that the recall, automation, DAW control, and personal monitoring setups puts you in mind to start a tracking business for people who want to work at home but need a good live room for recording basic tracks, or mixing business for people who have a disk full of tracks they've recorded at home and need some help mixing it. Now, those (for you anyway) would be game-changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 7, 2012 Members Share Posted July 7, 2012 I don't know if it would be a good idea for a pub or small club unless there was a full time house engineer to go along with it. It doesn't take but a few minutes for a mixing engineer to figure out an analog console that he's never used before, that it's different with digital consoles. While the fundamental operating principles on most of them are pretty similar (select a channel or an output, then mess with it using a common set of controls) things are in different places, and nomenclature is different. There's a lot to get accustomed to in the relatively short time you have to set up, do a sound check, and get the show started. This is why Yamahas are so popular - because they're so popular visiting engineers get used to them (sort of like Pro Tools). I can see where you might have a lot of fun with it doing what you do, but I doubt that it will change your game. But you never can tell. Maybe you'll decide to buy two or three, teach the local band enginneers how to use it, and then rent them out. Or perhaps you might find that the recall, automation, DAW control, and personal monitoring setups puts you in mind to start a tracking business for people who want to work at home but need a good live room for recording basic tracks, or mixing business for people who have a disk full of tracks they've recorded at home and need some help mixing it. Now, those (for you anyway) would be game-changing. I guess there are plenty of money making ventures one can do with one of these. But you are right about the need for someone to know how to use this vs a somewhat standardized analog rig. I would hate to buy several of these and rent them. Renters dont respect gear. I guess I could rent out my PA services. I do have PA gear (mains and subs) which dont get used much. And the whole save settings for different venues is key. I do have a DBX Driverack for my PA. But I wonder if the X32 with its many main bus effects would eliminate it. Oh, wait, no feedback suppressing on the X32 that I see. But in my area (all farm land), there isnt much call for it. I do record bands from time to time and I enjoy doing it and I have had bands record just tracks as you mentioned. But I dont charge anything. Maybe I should. Oh well. I plan on buying the Behringer Powerplay setup for individual live feeds in my live room next spring. Currently I use the aux sends on the Mackie 1640i and a Behringer 8 channel headphone amp. Works well, but it is limited (mono). I do run three stereo DAW mixes out to the live room also, which is a plus for overdubs. But the Powerplay system is light years above what I have now. So next year I definately will be getting a few of those units and the distribution hub. As far as the Behringer X32, just have to wait for the reviews. I know your a Mackie user and know the Onyx preamps, so I guess if the X32 is a step up in sound/coversion quality, then I may jump ship. Peace !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Temple of Light Posted July 7, 2012 Members Share Posted July 7, 2012 Game changer? Not really, landscape modifier is more like it...I think alot of the potential for this unit will be in how clean, good and superb the thing sounds, if it has the preffered interface cards as options, {ETHERNET, DB25, AES/EBU AND ADAT LIGHTPIPE} and whether or not the automation is significantly sized to record millions, {not thousands} of events. Total Recall Automation sounds good in the hype of their over caffienated marketing machine, but the hard limits on what it can really deliver will be the game changer for me....Behringer has been as close as they could get to a Grand Slam alot of times, but has really never pulled it off...This is what would definetly penetrate alot of markets, and studio installations. I'm waiting for a reliability/reality check from the bravest few who buy right in...after a few dozen objective reviews in it's favor, alot of people like me {artists first, engineers, sound designers/producers and businessmen & so on, second} will be interested in at least getting a demo of the thing and getting a feel for how well it integrates into our over achieving environments...and how we might utilize it to it's full potential. I'd get two if it's what I hope it is, but they have been really good at bull{censored}ting people with technical specs and so forth, and I suspect this case will be more of the same. I truly hope that for just this once, that my hope is well founded and for once I'm proven wrong. I could really use this thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 7, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Are they shipping that full P16 monitor system yet? When I was working on an article on headphone amplifiers a couple of months ago, I wanted to get my hands on one but the only piece that was shipping was the input box, not the personal mixing box. Forgive me if I'm being a fuddy-duddy about this. Maybe i'd have a better apprciation for "game changing" if I was into sports. Seems like that's where the term originated. I suppose it's game-changing moving from a conventional studio to a DAW, or maybe game-changing for a musician who has never recorded to start recording himself (and become good at it) because he can do it with his computer and a couple of hundred bucks when (30 years ago) $50,000 worth of studio gear kept him out of that game. But going from a Mackie 1640 to a Beheringer X32? Naw! It'd probably put you behind for a few weeks, but that's hardly game changing unless it shot your reputation. And I doubt that's not the sort of game-changing we're talking about here. Oh, and i like guitars, too, and had a 1972 240Z. The guitars are all still intact but the Z car disappeared in a pile of rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 8, 2012 Members Share Posted July 8, 2012 Have a 91Twin Turbo (stage 5) pushing around 490 hp to the rear wheels. Daughter has a 90 non turbo, look just like the white one minus the rear spoiler and turbos . Had a 1984 300Z (red one in phot) but its gone now. Would love to find a nice 280. My daughter and I both love the 280's. I see a few 240's from time to time, and most have V8's slapped in them. There is a company that makes a kit that gives you everything to make the swap. That would be cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted July 8, 2012 Members Share Posted July 8, 2012 Oh, and i like guitars, too, and had a 1972 240Z. The guitars are all still intact but the Z car disappeared in a pile of rust. I had that that same year 240Z as well. Great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted July 8, 2012 Members Share Posted July 8, 2012 They are very cool cars. The Z's were "game changers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted July 9, 2012 Members Share Posted July 9, 2012 They're fine for recording, as long as you don't exceed the number of channels they can support at your chosen sample rate, and meet latency requirements (which aren't very significant unless monitoring from the computer). That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted July 9, 2012 Members Share Posted July 9, 2012 Granted, I have no love for the stupid mini firewire jack (it's a crappily designed connector), but I've been totally mystified by this claim that USB or FW have no place in recording. What is it about these data transfer protocols that makes them any worse than, say AES or SPDIF or IDE or SATA or PCI? What is it that makes these things suck so badly in your eyes? Or rather, what specifically are you complaining about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 9, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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