Members Elias Graves Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Actually, the shill issue is a bit of a back seat now. BG is accusing people of racism and I'd like to know a little more about that. Thats a fairly serious charge and I think it deserves a little scrutiny. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I thought Jay stopped posting because there was so much anti-GFS stuff going on. Now I hear it was full of pro-GFS shilling. So what is it?The pro stuff was all 3+ years ago. If a poster said 1 thing they didn't like about GFS, regardless of how insignificant, they were lambasted by the fanboys. Most people, like myself, just stayed as far away as possible so as not to rock the boat. Now the cycle is complete with a different cast of characters, however some of the original fanboys are still very vocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Actually, the shill issue is a bit of a back seat now. BG is accusing people of racism and I'd like to know a little more about that. Thats a fairly serious charge and I think it deserves a little scrutiny. EG That issue (racism/bigotry) is well documented and has been discussed with quite a few here as well as several mods, the brand managers for this website and others at HC corporate. I have also gotten quite a few messages from people here about that as well, and I appreciate it. On the shilling, Diceman supposedly blocked me on here but I wasn't speaking of him. I was speaking about what I (as well as others such as Jimash, Doctor M, etc...) have also seen. Just because you two don't get that doesn't mean nobody else does. If I cared enough to continue I would ask for some proof that I am, in fact, Ed Roman but seeing as how I'm not a moron I understand that you consider that some sort of insult or something. Like I said, I would rather be thought of as Ed Roman then Elias Graves and at the end of the day I'm not Ed (would Ed have all the Gibsons I do? ) and you're EG, so I win. Get a life and calm down before you have a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 If you're gonna call someone a racist, do it. Nobody gets a pass on that one. I pity you. You're a small little man. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 If you're gonna call someone a racist, do it. Nobody gets a pass on that one. I pity you. You're a small little man. EG I did. I just listed everyone this issue is being discussed with. I thought I was Ed Roman, he's a lot of things but little is not one of them. Like I said, you can call me anything you like. Someone who was best friends with a pedophile since the 7th grade doesn't strike me as a great judge of people. Thanks for the fun tonight. I'll be laughing about this for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good stuff guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Good stuff guys! I agree! Hopefully EG filmed himself tonight WINNING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 The pro stuff was all 3+ years ago. If a poster said 1 thing they didn't like about GFS, regardless of how insignificant, they were lambasted by the fanboys. Most people, like myself, just stayed as far away as possible so as not to rock the boat. Now the cycle is complete with a different cast of characters, however some of the original fanboys are still very vocal.Well I joined recently so I'm unaware of all that went down. I'm a tweaker like so many of us and I try to have an open mind and an impartial one. I've tried some GFS pickups. They work. They're not a rip-off. I don't think they're cheap enough to where they're no-brainers like some people think they should be, especially when a set of Fender Tex Mex pickups are $60 (about the same as GFS single coils), Fender Vintage Noiseless are $120 (just a hair over GFS Neovin, which are nowhere near as good IMO, and I don't even consider Fender VN to be that good), and a lot of GFS parts are not even cheaper than comparable items like OEM Fender parts (GFS bridges are no cheaper than a genuine Fender bridge, etc.). So actually, my problem with GFS is that GFS isn't cheap enough for the market they're targeting, which may be the strangest thing anyone's ever said about GFS, but I believe it to be true. You can easily spend $90 in pickups at GFS, and when you think of it like that, is it truly a bargain when there are plenty of manufacturers that charge a bit more that have documentation, specs, and clips? Then there's shipping. Now, Dragonfire actually sells at a price that I think makes them no-brainers, because $30 for two chromed humbuckers that play very well for high-gain applications is a godsend to someone who loves high-gain humbuckers like me, and I believe that the Screamers compete on tone with some of the more well known high-gain pickups. It should be pointed that boutique manufacturers usually do not target this segment, and it's understandable, but really, DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan are about as high end as people get when it comes to high-gain pickups, and do the Dragonfire Screamers compete? Hell yeah, and at 1/5 the price. See, that's a bargain. GFS is not that much of a bargain. I've tried BG Pups. I liked them, they sounded good, the service was certainly good. I don't think the Phatty set wowed me like the first time I heard my Lace or Kinman pickups plugged into a JC-120**, but it might just be that I suck at playing in a style that makes them shine, which might be true because I always end up changing single coils to noiseless varieties. All the same, I thought they were very competitive with any traditional Strat pickups I'd heard. But maybe pickups shouldn't wow you. They should just sound like the guitar should. I'm a guy who does things to make his Strats un-Stratty. I'm probably a bad judge of this. ** I don't think any guitar I've ever played has ever sounded as good as my '69 Mustang with Kinmans plugged straight into a JC-120, chorus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Honestly, I have never heard of Dragonfire pickups until a day or two ago. If I had an Epiphone or some other low money guitar and wanted to change it for the sake of changing it I would go to GFS. I think the service is really good and I think the prices are fair for what they are. The only issue I have with them is that they claim stuff is an 'exact replacement' which to me means exactly the same and to them means it will fit correctly (with a TOM) and the pickups I tried (P-90, some humbuckers) were not all that great. Everything I ever got came quickly and the one time it didn't I emailed and they got right back to me so I can't complain. If you're plugging into a JC-120 chances are you and I are going for different sounds (I had a JC-120 STACK back in the day - the head with two 4x12 Roland cabs - I never saw another!) I had the head then got the cab then someone gave me another cab. Not really my thing but the clean sounds are nice. The important thing is that you buy what you do because you like the way it sounds - and not because a bunch of other people are:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I agree! Hopefully EG filmed himself tonight WINNING! Well, there is no winning at internet arguments...but...you did win. Though, "I pity you. You're a small little man. " wreaks of sig worthiness, so that has to count for something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, it's funny. At the time I was mostly playing very jangly guitars into solid state amps, so naturally I went for guitars with very pure, hi-fi sounds. Kinmans, Lace, etc. I still like them, but I think my tastes started shifting a bit when I got rid of the JC-120 because I hated lugging that thing around. I can't even imagine how huge the stack is. So when I sold the JC-120, I got a Peavey Delta Blues 210, based on positive reviews, and naturally, I started playing differently. How can you not? Completely different amp. Eventually I got rid of that amp, too, and I went even more lightweight, playing with with Tech 21 preamps and the like, and then I started liking humbuckers all of a sudden, mainly because they responded very well in this different setup. So now my tonal tastes are completely different from when I had the JC120 and mainly strummed for cleans and snuck a distortion in there if I needed dirt. As for Dragonfire, I should stop talking about them because I might be contributing to them becoming more famous, then they'll be GFS priced then I won't want them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Carroll Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 If you don't use mid-price pickups in mid-priced guitars, you're doing it wrong everyone else is wrong. Give me an alnico pro II in a lp studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretmonster Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 It's frightening to think that the only other shill I can think of is promoting Ed Roman. EG FIXED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Interesting read boys..., I like a good discussion/argument. Who were these shills anyway? I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrawnHeed Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I thought Jay stopped posting because there was so much anti-GFS stuff going on. Now I hear it was full of pro-GFS shilling. So what is it? The herd ran one way, then turned and ran the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 The pro stuff was all 3+ years ago. If a poster said 1 thing they didn't like about GFS, regardless of how insignificant, they were lambasted by the fanboys. true but i haven't seen that with bg or rose.... if someone asks 'what's a good humbucker sized p90?'... i'm going to suggest bg pure 90s... because i have them... and they're great... my interaction here with bryan has been minimal... his service when i dealt with him was great.... so i'll say that from my experience his stuff is good... if someone else has tried his pickups and doesn't like them... cool... but you really don't see much (if any) of that herewhat you do see from time to time though is people judging his gear without having tried it... pretty dumb imo i have no idea why people have a problem with others who are happy with a product/price/service saying so when the subject of pickups comes up... if those people go off on people who don't like the product, that's a different story... but not the case here and it's not all about money... i own some high end guitars... i also have an old epi joe pass that i'll eventually change the pickups in... when i do i'll be contacting bryan..,. because my experience with his pickups has been a very positive one i have no experience with rose pickups... so i can't comment on them either way i get that there can be reverse snobbery (for want of a better term) here... but let's be honest... bg and rose is who we're talking about ... i don't believe the term is relevant with them... people who have bought their stuff like it... and they say so... big deal people suggesting pickups is the least of this place's problems... especially when others seem to delight in making negative comments with backhanded swipes with 90% of the posts they make... it's gotten really ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, there is no winning at internet arguments...but...you did win. Though, " I pity you. You're a small little man. " wreaks of sig worthiness, so that has to count for something! DONE! LOL:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kit_strong Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I'll admit it, I'm a shill.. If by shill you mean someone who likes to try and spread the word of something they think is a good product that might be sometimes overlooked in lieu of the more mainstream choices. Fender, Squire, Epiphone, Gibson, Yamaha, PRS, these are all well known brands and there are many fine products at all price points to be had in those brands. But there are also some other great brands out there without the same name recognition which can sometimes mean an even better deal to be had. your Agiles, Cignos, Rose, Dragonires, etc..Things I've shilled for in the past based on my own personal experience. All the products listed are ones i own and would gladly purchase again if the opportunity arrises. I will also consider shilling for them whenever the opportunity arrises Except Malden since the clearance ends in just over 2 weeks.-Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BG76 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 truebuti haven't seen that with bg or rose.... if someone asks 'what's a good humbucker sized p90?'... i'm going to suggest bg pure 90s... because i have them... and they're great... And you should recommend them. Again, my comments at the beginning of this thread were not about any particular member/vendor. I was simply stating something that I have seen here many times (as have other members, who chimed in). That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 That issue (racism/bigotry) is well documented and has been discussed with quite a few here as well as several mods, the brand managers for this website and others at HC corporate. I have also gotten quite a few messages from people here about that as well, and I appreciate it. Please report anyone you consider to be a racist to the proper authorities and stop the libel. If you are basing it on a picture I photoshopped for fun with a hitler mustache, which by the way, I have no problem posting along with the thread in which it appeared where you likened an avatar which read boycott Israel to anti-semitism. You have made up lies which I also have in my possession about things you say I said which do not exist anywhere on this website. You see. We can un-delete even your deleted posts. A simple search of my posts in the political forum will reveal me to be both an ardent supporter of the state of Israel and an ardent admirer of the chosen people in my bible, but I'm sure you knew that. I didn't agree with the forumites avatar. While an anti-semite might certainly want to boycott the state of Israel, it is not de-facto anti-semitism to protest the policies of Israel. Care to meet me in the political forum to discuss your position further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 And you should recommend them. Again, my comments at the beginning of this thread were not about any particular member/vendor. I was simply stating something that I have seen here many times (as have other members, who chimed in).That's all. Having read all the posts associated with this discussion on shilling, while not naming names because you are careful, you have left no doubt as to the posters whose opinions should be found wanting based on your criteria. I have no problem with your opinion. It's neither right nor wrong. People promote the products they like. The condescending attitude comes in the form of looking for the "pat on the head". It's okay to have an opinion and even to make a statement but don't insult the community by saying you didn't mean it to be condescending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DavidMgT Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow, this thread took an odd turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintage clubber Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow, this thread took an odd turn.that's an understatement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 that's an understatement... I apologize and now return you to your regularly scheduled program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 but let's be honest... bg and rose is who we're talking about ... i don't believe the term is relevant with them... people who have bought their stuff like it... and they say so... big deal people suggesting pickups is the least of this place's problems... especially when others seem to delight in making negative comments with backhanded swipes with 90% of the posts they make... it's gotten really ugly As usual, I agree with sully. The off-putting thing is that some of those 90% negative folks have a lot of experience and have countless bits of information they can and do contribute. I will go a teeny step further and point out that there are two forumites that, at least for a while, would seemingly almost ALWAYS recommend Rose pickups anytime someone asked for advice. I have zero problem with that except one of them would almost always mention the Rose Mariposas and Buff Beauties even when the person asking for advice was asking about things like CS54s and Duncan Antiquities. I'm not comparing the quality, but those pickups aren't even remotely in the same sonic ballpark. That's my only beef and to be honest, I really couldn't care less. There are folks that think that unless they have Lollars or Fralins, their guitar won't sound good enough for a bar gig. On the other hand, you have folks that play Epiphones with stock pickups or MIM ceramics at 50 gigs a year and think their guitar sounds just fine. Anyone with an IQ around 95 should be able to deduce that different people have different 'requirements'... some want to play and some want to tweak. To argue about this {censored} so endlessly makes you seem as though you don't have an IQ of quite 95. I'm somewhere in between. I like modding stuff, including the higher end stuff that I own but I also get enjoyment out of playing pretty much any guitar that is intonated properly. What I definitely don't like is when people throw out their snide remarks and try to hide behind issues other than the gear. If you're a snob, say, 'I have enough money to own 25 American guitars and I wouldn't be caught dead playing a Squier with GFS pickups at a gig'. Or just don't say anything at all, like your mama probably tried to teach you. (Edit: It goes without saying that those last few sentences were in no way directed at mistersully.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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