Singers using music stands with lyric sheets

[KeysBear]

 

Just because one's W2's indicate they aren't a a 'pro musician' income-wise, that's no excuse for LOOKING unprofessional on stage .

 

My reference is more about the people who need therapy and tranquilizers if they are ever caught doing something unprofessional. This is not directed at you but when I meet someone with amazing talent who is all caught up in what's professional or not (haven't yet) I will change my theory that people who care the most about looking professional and being treated like they are professionals are the most insecure about themselves. I could play in a chicken suit with a music stand and feel good about my performance but I won't, it would be too hot, and I sweat enough as it is. As I said I'm semi-pro so it's a sports bar usually, a patio bar, a carnival, maybe a festival, it doesn't matter, I prefer to lighten up and let the music speak for itself.

 

Screw you all, I'm taking my music stand with me next gig even though I don't need it. I'll put my cell phone on it, with the ringer on, lol.

[New Trail]

 

... My issue with the usage in this particular case is because the guy is spread way too thin across all those bands to be properly prepared for any ONE of them .....

 

 

Okay, that's fine, but, just for clarification on my part, is or isn't the guy a really really good player and easy to get along with? Just curious really, cause you don't see a lot of guys with that much work or in that much demand unless they're great all-around bandmates despite the use of cheatsheets.

[rodclement]

I use my motorola XOOM pad with all my lyrics in there on a propietary stand. It sits about knee height, right besides my monitor, nobody cares if it's there and I seldom look at it but every time someone comes up and asks for an obcscure song we haven't played in 2 years...I can bring it up and deliver it on the spot.

I also have AADD and the tought of not having the lyrics there hinders my performance since I get nervous, but most times I never even look at it...

The argument for me would be, does it hinder the delivery? It's not the tool but how you use it; the tool itself can help delivery (like in my case) or it can be a crutch as mentioned somewhere about singers standing still reading from a sheet on the floor. I guess if I was in a dinamic rock band that plays in bars, party band, etc. I would have to find a way to tackle it but in my acoustic duo or in wedding bands, it never affected me.

One upside of the lyrics on my tablet is that every time someone wants to sing with us (we do that a lot!) they have their prompter ready according to our version of the song so people love it! And for arguments that a music stand inpedes a singer from engaging the crowd, here is a video of one of our gigs...there is a "guest" (girl form the crowd who tipped us, sorry for her screams on the chorus..) singing and the crowd interacting, I guess they don't care much...

Rod

[Vermoulian]

 

I could play in a chicken suit with a music stand and feel good about my performance but I won't, it would be too hot, and I sweat enough as it is.

 

 

BWTB quote of the month!

[ba2rymusic]

I agree w/ Austincowbell, if you are background music, there are worse things than using a music stand w/ lyrics or chords on it. When your job is to entertain (unless its a wedding gig, rare exception), you HAVE to be able to engage the audience. Its insulting to me when I see bands doing this and thinking it is ok. It takes a lot of time to learn words to songs and intricate bass lines that I have to do, and I take pride in that. When I see/hear of folks taking the easy way out, it burns my bacon!

[kmart]

Okay, that's fine, but, just for clarification on my part, is or isn't the guy a really really good player and easy to get along with? .

 

I already indicated he was both.

 

I ALSO indicated that there's ample evidence of him looking at that binder at his feet while playing instead of looking at/engaging the audience or otherwise appearing like he's got more than a passing familiarity with what he's attempting to do. And I've seen him on material he's comfortable with enough to recognize there's a huge difference...when he's not checking his shoelaces, he's a great and engaging performer.

 

As the general consensus has said "Occasionally is one thing. Regularly is another altogether.

[rangefinder]

I think much of the issue comes down to the risk vs. reward of screwing up the lyrics.

 

For a low-end marginal band, they can't afford it because they are already on the margin, the music is all they have, and they probably aren't good enough to adjust on the fly.

 

For a whole bunch of bands in the middle, there isn't much downside because everyone can just adjust and the band is focused on putting on a killer show anyway, instead of getting the music "perfect".

 

Then at the high end, now there are a million things sync'd to the lyrics/timing/etc. and a bunch of huge fans who know every twist and turn so everything HAS to be right.

[guitarguy19]

I've seen iPads attached to music stands and it is fine......... My real problem is the music stand, not the fact that the singer/performer needs help.

 

 

What' the difference if there is a binder or an ipad on the other side of the stand? The only way to see what's actually there is from the stage.

[Vito Corleone]

But it's one factor in the performance and there are many other more important factors.

 

 

Of course. But I don't think that just because there are more important factors that it excuses it at all. If I make two mistakes on a song is it OK because the bass player made four?

 

Of course not. I think this sort of attitude (and not saying you do this---I'm just riffing off your sentence) is where bands start down the road to mediocrity: the "I'd be more concerned about my ugly shorts on stage but since Bob has such a {censored}ty tone, why does it matter? His bad tone is WAY worse than my ugly shorts...."

 

Every band and every band member needs to bring it 100% to the best of their ability. And not let the weaknesses of others be an excuse bring it less than 100%.

[SpaceNorman]

 

I love threads like these that are full of snobbery and puffery that someone is not professional because they use music or lyrics on a stand. I'll bet a lot of the snobs couldn't read a chart or sketch out a lead part in notation. My lead singer must know three hundred songs but when we bring in new material it takes him about a month to get it burned in. The Motown/Classics band I play with on the side has horn players and works with three different singers who are always changing keys and arrangements on the songs. If I didn't have a cheat sheet taped to my keyboard I'd be lost. The horn players, guitarists, and lead singers use music stands and not one snob has walked out because of it.....

 

 

^^^ I'm with KeysBear on this one. I'm certainly not going to be impressed by a player who can't turn away from his music stand or cheat sheet throughout the show. By the same token, neither would I outright dismiss a player who's got a stand within eyeshot to glance at every now and then.

[Hegmatronicon]

There are a couple of venues in my area that wont allow them on stage. Same with wearing shorts or hats. Both as a band member, or as a patron.
And our agent STRONGLY urges his bands to not use them as well.

[SandyCo]

As a member of the audience, let me just state for the record that I loathe music stands and lyric sheets. I can understand if it's a new song, but after one performance with the lyrics on the floor in big black letters, the singer should memorize it!

I saw one particular band twice; the first time I didn't really notice this flaw. The second show I attended I watched the singer staring at the floor before EVERY song, and sometimes during. I'd rather hear a blown lyric or two than watch a supposed front man staring at the floor; it really got on my nerves after a while. And no, he couldn't (and didn't) interact with the audience that well.

I'm referring mostly to bands in a club situation, but even a solo artist should be more professional. If they're the one person on stage that we're all watching, isn't it even more important that they stack the deck in their favor? Nothing beats eye contact and interaction with the crowd.

[benzem]

Is it just my pet peeve or does anyone else find it insulting/annoying that some singers will have lyric sheets in front of them on a music stand all night. How can you interact with the crowd with an extra barrier (especially as the front person)? Besides, it just looks unprofessional. If you are a wedding band that knows 100+ songs, ok fine. But a typical cover band that plays 40 or so songs a night... come on! /rant

 

 

It's incredibly lame and unimpressive.

[jwlussow]

 

I use my motorola XOOM pad with all my lyrics in there on a propietary stand. It sits about knee height, right besides my monitor, ...

 

 

This is totally cool. It isn't a music stand at chest height between you and your audience. No one here, as far as I know, is arguing cheat sheets. It is more about hiding or obscuring the fact that support is needed. It is strictly about the use of music stands front and center. That is my problem, iPads or laptops placed in an obscure or non-obvious location is fine. Music stand front and center screams of unprofessionalism and lack of respect for the job at hand, performing and engaging an audience.

[Loop-Master]

I personally don't use a music stand nor lyric sheets but, I only sing a couple songs a night. If I did more than that, I'd havta use one.

[SeniorBlues]

This is totally cool. It isn't a music stand at chest height between you and your audience. No one here, as far as I know, is arguing cheat sheets. It is more about hiding or obscuring the fact that support is needed. It is strictly about the use of music stands front and center. That is my problem, iPads or laptops placed in an obscure or non-obvious location is fine. Music stand front and center screams of unprofessionalism and lack of respect for the job at hand, performing and engaging an audience.

So let me be clear about this . . . .

Nobody that I recall is arguing for the minute-by-minute use of a chest height prompter of any kind by a frontman/entertainer. I have seen some very good singers with a very obvious music stand, but I've never seen anyone refer to it constantly (although I understand that some of you have.)

If you're put in a situation where you have to learn a lot of new material on short notice, then you should try to use it as little as possible and consider putting your notes in a less conspicuous place (off to the side).

When I sing lead (not often), I find it helpful to put a key word or two to a verse in upper case.... one glance and I'm good for the whole verse.

I'm learning changes, bass lines, horn lines, some lyrics, and arrangements to a lot of songs I've never even heard before, and no, these are not three chord major/minor triads. Making charts helps me to learn the song. A couple times through at home, a couple rehearsals, and they end up being used only to tell me my keyboard presets. The part or two that I keep screwing up are circled in red.

[TrickyBoy]

I'm reading this thread, and the thing I don't get is for me, there's no single make or break thing with regards to listening to a band. Sure I have my pet peeves. I hate guitarists that just wank solos rather than trying to learn them correctly (especially for "signature" solos). However there's a band in town that happens to be one of my favorites and their guitarist does this every song. Yeah, he's pretty good, but don't say Angus Young is your favorite and then do a piss poor wank over the solo to "Shook Me". Drives me batty. But their singing is SO good and the band is so tight otherwise, that I ignore his solos (and giggle inside when people tell me how great the guitarist is )

Not a big fan of dopey costumes. Or music stands either. But to say I'd walk out just because of one of those issues seems rather ridiculous to me.

[Vito Corleone]

I think a musician being assisted by lyric sheets is acceptible, just as long as they aren't tracked or sequenced.

[MikeyParent]

to say I'd walk out just because of one of those issues seems rather ridiculous to me.

 

 

I know right? Overly dramatic much?

[kmart]

No one here, as far as I know, is arguing cheat sheets. It is more about hiding or obscuring the fact that support is needed. It is strictly about the use of music stands front and center. That is my problem, iPads or laptops placed in an obscure or non-obvious location is fine.

 

Agreed, but further, to those who would argue that there's no difference between lyrics printed on paper on a music stand and lyrics shown on an iPad screen...

 

...consider audience perception.

As has been mentioned numerous times, the perception of notes on a music stand is that it's some sort of crutch to aid an otherwise unprepared musician. You could have ONLY your set-list and a picture of your favorite musician for inspiration on one, but I believe the average audience member is still going to see your music stand and think you're using a crutch.

With an iPad or other tablet on a stand however, I think there is definitely a perceived difference; it's hip/new technology. For all the average audience member knows, you could wirelessly be running FOH sound, lights, vocal or instrument effects, or any other number of show-critical tasks on it...the difference is it's quite an unknown/uncommon sight still.

 

Ultimately, having them placed dead center in front of you and/or staring at either type of form factor all night will likely result in the same consequences, but again, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that from the audience perception angle alone, there isn't a large and important difference between the two.

[Vito Corleone]

Ultimately, having them placed dead center in front of you and/or staring at either type of form factor all night will likely result in the same consequences, but again, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that from the audience perception angle alone, there isn't a large and important difference between the two.

 

 

^^^THIS

[MusicalSchizo]

I have to be honest: I just don't understand where everyone's finding these phantom audience members who give a {censored} about stands so long as the music is fun.

 

I've played extensively (hundreds of gigs) in two markets (Central Texas and Northeast Florida) in cover-party-wedding-show bands that pretty much all used a music stand at about hip level in the middle of the stage or off to the side, and never got ONE comment from a non-musician about it. Not a comment from a bar owner, sound guy, audience member, server, bartender. It might be because the stand is never the focus and my bands have always been heavily concerned with moving around, engaging the audience and doing a good show, but I simply haven't had the experience that the anti-stand crowd describes...maybe it's fundamentally different when we're talking about playing original clubs or something (I'd never use one there, myself). I don't know. My experience has been that no one complains about that. I've heard complaints about our song selection, the time between songs (on bad nights, it's our major flaw), but never one word about the stand - except from other people who do this who take issue with it, and they mostly aren't the types of people who even go see other cover bands!

 

I just think these things are far more annoying when it comes to cover bands:

1. Extra pointless harmonies that don't add to the song, or harmonies that are sung wrong or in the wrong place.

2. Bands who don't phrase the vocal melody correctly and it isn't on purpose, it's because their ear sucks.

3. Guitarists who don't play the right parts and haven't replaced the right parts with something interesting. Or play too loud.

4. Bands who stand there and don't put on any sort of show, music stands or not.

5. Lead singers who don't play an instrument who don't make every effort to engage with the crowd.

6. Drummers who can't play the simple beat to "Brick House" correctly or play too damn loud for the venue. Or can't tune their snare.

7. Bassists who can't play the bass part to "Play That Funky Music" correctly (it's not the same as the guitar part...) or whose amps are so loud they drown everything else out.

8. Bands who try to look cool and it's obvious they're uncomfortable with it.

9. Bands who don't understand the message/emotions behind each individual song they're covering and don't either honor it or take it somewhere new.

10. Bands who don't know that mixing the vocals so they're intelligible is a very smart thing and not an afterthought.

 

But those are MY pet peeves...I hope some of those annoy you anti-stand people, too.

Brian V.

[rog951]

 

Is it just my pet peeve or does anyone else find it insulting/annoying that some singers will have lyric sheets in front of them on a music stand all night. How can you interact with the crowd with an extra barrier (especially as the front person)? Besides, it just looks unprofessional. If you are a wedding band that knows 100+ songs, ok fine. But a typical cover band that plays 40 or so songs a night... come on! /rant

 

 

The only time I found it insulting was the time that the guy had painted "Hey you! Yes YOU! You are a big fat poopiehead!" on the back of his music stand.

[guitarguy19]

Is there a difference between a singer that doesn't play an instrument and one that stays in one spot front and center and plays (guitar for example) having a stand? I'm curious. It seems like it would be a LOT more noticeable if the front man was moving around all over the stage but had to make his way back to his cheat sheets to start the next verse, vs. standing in one spot discretely glancing down at the stand to get the first words of the next verse or something.

We've played a lot of shows and we've never had people come up to us and say...man what's with that music stand for your front man...? Not once. Instead we see packed clubs and dance floors and we walk off stage to "wow you guys are AWESOME" more often than not. He gets "hey dude you're an amazing singer" at almost every show. That's what counts. If you went back and asked 50 people from the bar we played at the night before, I bet 49 of them wouldn't remember if there was a stand up on stage or not. For the record, if I had a choice I'd say I'm not a fan of him having it up there simply because it's more clutter on the stage, and I hate clutter. But...if you're rocking the night away, everyone is dancing and having a great time, compliments all around, and you're getting calls the next morning for more dates, who the hell really cares?

One more thing...has anyone ever considered that laziness might not be the underlying reason that singers have lyrics on hand? I agree that most of the time it's just a mental thing and if they really tried they could probably get rid of the crutch, but I bet there are some cases out there where people just don't/can't memorize words easily (or at all). If they're great singers and musicians and can still sell the show and people like them, should they really be chastised for doing what they have to do to make it work?

[chemikool]

Aww jeez...not this {censored} again:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

First off let me say to all the music stand naysayers:
Do you sing lead >95% of the night? If not, then you have no valid opinion. I realize that statement will put me at odds with a lot of you; even some whose opinion I have grown to respect. BUT --- Until you sing lead the entire night while playing an instrument or two, you have NO IDEA what it takes. You may THINK you know...but you would be wrong! That would be like me telling my doctor how to do his job (I'm not an MD) and then telling him he should be doing it the way I want it done or he'll lose my respect! HA HA!!!

The only person (that I know of) in this thread that plays and sings lead for a band (like me) is Austin, and we've had it out over this topic before. After re-reading that thread for a bit () I have nothing to add except that a solo/duo is fine to use a music stand (see my sig) while a full band is unacceptable.

I have easily over 1000 songs in my books that I use on solo/duo gigs. The music has never been an issue for me; I'm kind of a savant in that regard. The lyrics to some obscure 70s song that I learned 8 years ago that some dude will tip me $$$ to hear...that is why I need the books on my solo/duo gigs.

In either of my 2 band situations, the books are a visible no-no. Having lyric books displayed front-and-center detracts from the show. We will have a book or two on the floor -out of sight- in case we get some obscure request backed by $$$.

So to summarize my opinions:
1) If you don't sing lead (or never have), you have an invalid opinion.
2) Solo/Duo --- lyric stand / lyric books OK
3) Group performance --- lyric stand / lyric books NOT OK

And a quick note to all the "you would never play in my band if you use a stand" people...
Lets not forget that the SINGER is in control whether you THINK they are or not (also see my sig)...
It would most certainly be the other way around (because I'm the singer) ergo "you would never play in MY band with those elitist, uniformed opinions" --- guitards are a dime a dozen...singers...are not.