Singers using music stands with lyric sheets

[jwlussow]

 

Snob. Don't care if it is the greatest band in the world? You show a lack of respect for the music.

 

 

The way I see it the greatest band in the world shows a huge lack of respect for the music AND their audience. I'm not budging on this. It is unprofessional and a disgrace to all the bad, hard working bands that actually try to do it right. I hate the stands BECAUSE I respect the music.

[guitarguy19]

It's like saying "I walk out on any band with a white guy playing a strat."

 

That guy would be the hell out of one of our shows pretty quick!

[BATCAT]

Hey look, a third mention, still from the first page of my google results:

 

Sabs, who was further toward the stage than I was, texted the sad news that Hooky was singing from written lyrics on a music stand.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0J_hOgLG_H8J:www.thisisannie.net/2010/12/unknown-pleasures-indeed/+peter+hook+unknown+pleasures+%22music+stand%22&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

[Vito Corleone]

 

Exactly, and 99% of that .1% that DO care about music stands are other musicians who just think they are SO cool. The fact is that the use of music stands is a non-issue for those who we're playing for almost all of the time. It's a musician only issue! Another example of a musician only issue: I personally don't like shorts on stage, ever, but I don't think the audience cares AT ALL!

 

 

Define "cares".

 

If you were to poll people coming out of a show if they cared that the band was using music stands or what they were wearing....you're right. They'll probably say they don't care.

 

But it's really more about the overall impression a band puts forward and how the audience responds to that. Will they notice if the rhythm guitar player hits wrong chords all night long? No. Most people won't. If you polled them about it, they would probably say they didn't notice and didn't care. But if you have two bands playing across the street from each other and one is playing all the right chords and one is laying down clams all night long, which one do you think will get the better notice as a better band?

 

Same thing with issues like stands and clothing and lighting and other non-musical issues. Will they care if a band uses music stands? Not specifically, no. Will the band that doesn't use them put on a better show that will garner a better response? Almost certainly.

[flanc]

I agree with AustinCowbell, if you are not the focal point who cares. I'll take it one step further. If you are a solo, duo act that has a 500 song repertoire or takes random requests, then having a stand with a book of lyrics/chord charts is A-ok with me. If you are in a band that has to deliver 40 to 60 songs a night and you might have 100 in your "need to know" song bank, then learn the song. If you have a cheat sheet on a monitor for a tune or two...no biggie to me (as long as you don't stare at it). If you are a new or fill-in player that is forced into quick duty...I can forgive the stand BUT there has to be an urgency on getting rid of it or it'll become a permanent crutch.

 

I once saw a band (a bit geezer-ish) that was doing classic rock/oldies/country and had a lady up front singing with reading glasses a big orchestra-esque music stand that had a keyboard light mounted on the top. That was 10 years ago and I still recall vividly how appalled I was at the performance or lack thereof.

[KeysBear]

I love threads like these that are full of snobbery and puffery that someone is not professional because they use music or lyrics on a stand. I'll bet a lot of the snobs couldn't read a chart or sketch out a lead part in notation. My lead singer must know three hundred songs but when we bring in new material it takes him about a month to get it burned in. The Motown/Classics band I play with on the side has horn players and works with three different singers who are always changing keys and arrangements on the songs. If I didn't have a cheat sheet taped to my keyboard I'd be lost. The horn players, guitarists, and lead singers use music stands and not one snob has walked out because of it.

 

As for how the band looks on stage I think what happened to me Sunday night is pretty much the norm. We had finished our third set and I went to the men's room. When I walked in there were two guys talking about how good the band was. I said "yeah they kick ass" and neither one of them had a clue that I was in the band, whether we had music stands (we didn't), or if we were Martians. The place was packed. All they cared about was their beer and the girls. We are all so full of our own self importance it's not funny.

[Vito Corleone]

 

You are implying my opinion on which has nothing to do with the post. If a person is willing to walk out on the basis of a music stand....irregardless of the music...well that is snobbery.

 

 

So is that where the line is drawn? If nobody walks out, then the performance was satisfactory? That's a pretty low bar, wouldn't you say?

 

9 times out of 10, a band not using music stands is going to be putting on a better overall performance for any number of reasons. Like AC said, it might just be because singers not distracted by looking at lyrics can put on a better performance and interact with the audience better. Or it might just be because the stage looks better and more professional.

 

But hey, just as long as nobody walks out because of the whatever-lameness the musician brings to the stage, then it's all good? I don't think so.

[wheresgrant3]

Whether music stands detract from a singer's look on stage is debateable. What's not debateable is that you can pick any A-list niteclub band playing an A-list room up and down the east coast... and not a single band will have a singer reading from a stand. I'm just making a point not stating whether good or bad. As Austin put it... if your band is playing in the background then no problem... if your band is the center of attention, then that stand (or the singer's dependency on it) is dead center as well.

[kmart]

 

It's like saying "I walk out on any band with a white guy playing a strat. It shows a lack of respect for the music.".

 

 

Methinks you need to do some work on your understanding of similes, because it's not like that at all:

The case has already been presented (and IMO, made) that use of a stand shows, or at the very least implies, a certain lack of preparedness or capability.

 

On the other side of the equation, there are more than ample examples where a white guy playing a strat doesn't detract from the audience's enjoyment of the show.

[kmart]

 

Hey look, a third mention, still from the first page of my google results: Sabs, who was further toward the stage than I was, texted the sad news that Hooky was singing from written lyrics on a music stand. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0J_hOgLG_H8J:www.thisisannie.net/2010/12/unknown-pleasures-indeed/+peter+hook+unknown+pleasures+%22music+stand%22&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

 

This is sad.

And a bit funny.

 

When WE play Love Will Tear Us Apart, we don't use music stands...

[Vito Corleone]

 

Whether music stands detract from a singer's look on stage is debateable.

 

 

A lot of that depends on the singer. Like AC said, I think the biggest issue is does it detract from the ability to interact with the audience? We will use music stands sometimes when we do a cocktail set. A) they aren't songs we play very often, so we don't know them very well and B) it doesn't detract from the vibe of the set, IMO. Heck, they might almost INCREASE it---give us more of a "big band" look?

 

No music stands allowed during the regular set, however. But there does tend to be a lot of lyrics-taped-to-monitors. I don't have a problem with someone needing a cheat-sheet on a new song. MY problem becomes when it detracts from the performance. If the singer is looking down at the sheet the entire time and obviously reading instead of interacting with the audience---then THAT'S a problem. With my bass player, the problem is even worse because it affects how he sings. I can tell immediately if he's using a cheat-sheet or not because I can HEAR him reading the lyrics! Completely unacceptable, IMO.

 

So...a music stand discreetly off to the side or lyrics taped-to-the-monitor and the singer just glances at them periodically? I don't see how that is a big problem.

 

A big ol' music stand in the middle of the stage just looks amateurish for a rock band though, IMO.

[kmart]

 

As for how the band looks on stage I think what happened to me Sunday night is pretty much the norm. We had finished our third set and I went to the men's room. When I walked in there were two guys talking about how good the band was. I said "yeah they kick ass" and neither one of them had a clue that I was in the band ...

 

 

Probably never got a good look at your face, what with all the music stands blocking the view and all.

[bnelly428]

 

BTW- Paul taped his cheat sheets to the top of the body of his Hofners, Rics & acoustic guitars.

 

 

A discrete cheat sheet is fine imo. For new songs etc, but to have a binder that blatantly says "i need this or i can't perform" I just can't accept that.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I love threads like these that are full of snobbery and puffery that someone is not professional because they use music or lyrics on a stand.

 

 

I don't think it's snobbery or puffery to discuss what looks good on stage and what does not. And whether items or actions-of-the-musicians that don't look good on stage detract from the performance and the audiences overall perception of that performance.

[BATCAT]

 

This is sad. And a bit funny. When WE play Love Will Tear Us Apart, we don't use music stands...

 

 

The show was depressing. I had my doubts but my wife was reviewing the show so I went. The whole presentation made me feel embarassed.

[kmart]

 

A lot of that depends on the singer. Like AC said, I think the biggest issue is does it detract from the ability to interact with the audience? We will use music stands sometimes when we do a cocktail set. A) they aren't songs we play very often, so we don't know them very well and B) it doesn't detract from the vibe of the set, IMO. Heck, they might almost INCREASE it---give us more of a "big band" look? No music stands allowed during the regular set, however. But there does tend to be a lot of lyrics-taped-to-monitors. I don't have a problem with someone needing a cheat-sheet on a new song. MY problem becomes when it detracts from the performance. If the singer is looking down at the sheet the entire time and obviously reading instead of interacting with the audience---then THAT'S a problem. With my bass player, the problem is even worse because it affects how he sings. I can tell immediately if he's using a cheat-sheet or not because I can HEAR him reading the lyrics! Completely unacceptable, IMO. So...a music stand discreetly off to the side or lyrics taped-to-the-monitor and the singer just glances at them periodically? I don't see how that is a big problem. A big ol' music stand in the middle of the stage just looks amateurish for a rock band though, IMO.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

The side-project I play in occasionaly has a similar situation with the bass player, IMO: it's not a constant thing, but there's ample photo and video footage of him looking down/head at the mic sideways while singing....and he co-fronts the band!

The lyric book is at his feet, but it's plenty obvious he's checking it.

 

The guy's in like 6 bands too many, IMO...

The shame of it all being aside from that and his general lack of organization on all things band related (spinning too many plates at once), he's a great guy, one of my few true bandmate-slash-friends, and a great multi-instrumentalist/singer. If he could cut away all the chaff and focus on just 1 or 2 bands where he could give due diligence to learning the material cold, I'd love to play with him more.

[kmart]

 

The show was depressing. I had my doubts but my wife was reviewing the show so I went. The whole presentation made me feel embarassed.

 

 

I'm glad I didn't opt to go based on your feedback & those reviews.

[3shiftgtr]

 

Methinks you need to do some work on your understanding of similes , because it's not like that at all: The case has already been presented (and IMO, made) that use of a stand shows, or at the very least implies, a certain lack of preparedness or capability. On the other side of the equation, there are more than ample examples where a white guy playing a strat doesn't detract from the audience's enjoyment of the show.

 

 

The simile stands (no pun intended). The key is the elitist nature of the reasoning. It is elitist to walk out on either the band with the white guy/ strat, or the band with the music stand.

[TIMKEYS]

 

Whether music stands detract from a singer's look on stage is debateable. What's not debateable is that you can pick any A-list niteclub band playing an A-list room up and down the east coast... and not a single band will have a singer reading from a stand. I'm just making a point not stating whether good or bad. As Austin put it... if your band is playing in the background then no problem... if your band is the center of attention, then that stand (or the singer's dependency on it) is dead center as well.

 

 

I think alot depends on what you are using them for. down here you play alot outside in places where there just isnt any light. Its pretty common to see a stand with a light holding a set list , a small mixer. the words to a special song for a wedding that the band has had no real time to work up. A pair of reading glasses. picks capos, requests that come to he stage on a bar napkin,, the wind is wicked down here , so anything thats not nailed down may end up in the bay. They use them at tables ,,and all kinds of things. The only place you see a stand with a fake book full of songs is on a solo guys act where he may have 800 plus songs in the book. requests are big for those guys so unless you can keep that many songs in rotation in your head ,, you are gonna end up using a fake book part of the time. No one hauls lighting bars to gigs and even well established bands travel light.

[BATCAT]

WHat about white guys who wear shorts on stage while playing strats and reading lyrics from a music stand?

[troyguitar]

Music stands don't belong on stage in a rock band. If you need one, you do not belong on the stage. Go home and learn the songs. Possible exceptions for last minute fill-in players, but never for a front man. Lyrics in front of you is for karaoke, not a professional.

 

You're playing pop/rock covers. Does anyone you're covering go on stage like that? Then why is it OK for you?

 

IMO it's not snobbery to expect professionals to be professional...

[kmart]

 

The simile stands (no pun intended). The key is the elitist nature of the reasoning. It is elitist to walk out on either the band with the white guy/ strat, or the band with the music stand.

 

 

Again, music stand on stage (at least) implies a certain lack of preparedness/capability. White guy with a strat could be Clapton or SRV or Beck or Belew or Blackmore or Dick Dale or The Edge or Gilmour or Buddy Holly or Eric Johnson or Knopfler or Yngwie or Townshend or Ronnie Wood etc, or a billion other lesser know, but capable/competent guitarists.

 

When you can make the case that the overwhelming majority of white guys with strats are of an inferior quality to other musicians BECAUSE they are white guys using strats, to the point that 'white guy with a strat' is synonomous with 'questionable ability', let's talk basic English more.

[dan88z]

WHat about white guys who wear shorts on stage while playing strats and reading lyrics from a music stand?

 

that's crazy talk. Bands like that don't exist.

[3shiftgtr]

 

The way I see it the greatest band in the world shows a huge lack of respect for the music AND their audience. I'm not budging on this. It is unprofessional and a disgrace to all the bad, hard working bands that actually try to do it right. I hate the stands BECAUSE I respect the music.

 

 

I understand your reasoning for why it is dis-pleasurable for you to see a band with a music stand. It makes sense. Cuz you are relating what you see as part of the whole experience. Valid.

 

But to walk out on a band for that reason and that reason only, implies that your idea of musical respect is valid. It is opinion stated in the form of disgust. But to bring respect into the equation is foolhardy. It has nothing to do with respect. Your concept of respect for music is short sighted and bigoted.

 

So, its a friday night, guitarist has a car wreck and can't make the gig. You know someone who can come in short notice, doesn't know all the tunes, but has charts for the ones he doesn't know. And can nail the gig with charts. It is a guitar, bass drum vox gig. No guitarist, no gig.

 

WELL {censored} THAT! Cancel the gig out of respect! The bar owner gets mad and you loose the gig. SO WHAT! Respect the music, man! The owner talks to all the other bar owners and says, "All the {censored} was set up, and they had a player to do the gig, but they said they wouldn't do it cuz the sub might use a music stand! People turned away at the door. Don't EVER hire these guys."

 

Respect. Yeah. That is what it is all about.

 

Your opinion regarding the extreme dislike of music stands is valid, but your POV regarding musical respect is egregious.

[dan88z]

actually, cancelling a gig because the guitar player got in an accident is perfectly reasonable, even if half the band was set up. I'd be at the hospital making sure he was ok.