Members bnelly428 Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Is it just my pet peeve or does anyone else find it insulting/annoying that some singers will have lyric sheets in front of them on a music stand all night. How can you interact with the crowd with an extra barrier (especially as the front person)? Besides, it just looks unprofessional. If you are a wedding band that knows 100+ songs, ok fine. But a typical cover band that plays 40 or so songs a night... come on! /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Seriously? This has been covered, and it wasn't pretty. Do a search before you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crustee Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 sure sign of an amateur singer too lazy to learn them. No way it would fly in any band I'm a part of. Acoustic duo, maybe. None of the happy hour crowd will be paying attention anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crustee Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Seriously? This has been covered, and it wasn't pretty. Do a search before you post. Is the search even working on this {censored}ty implementation of this software now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Is it just my pet peeve or does anyone else find it insulting/annoying that some singers will have lyric sheets in front of them on a music stand all night. How can you interact with the crowd with an extra barrier (especially as the front person)? Besides, it just looks unprofessional.If you are a wedding band that knows 100+ songs, ok fine. But a typical cover band that plays 40 or so songs a night... come on!/rant You just hit the beehive with a stick, FYI. This is a covers/originals, shorts/no shorts, hats/no hats argument where everyone has an opinion and people come down hard on one side or the other. My take (as always): I've seen it done and done it myself for years, and I almost never look at it except between songs and on the occasional brain fart. It depends how you use it and how prominent it is. Unless you are a {censored}ty performer, it doesn't preclude you from interacting with the crowd at all. And it's just your opinion that it looks unprofessional. I don't give a {censored} if a band uses a music stand so long as they're fun and don't suck. Although I have to say I actually agree with you on some level when it's someone who just sings. They don't have to worry about playing an instrument, too, so they should have the words memorized. It's just minimal effort, you know? I memorize my words, but because of having to front the band AND play bass, brain farts happen, and I like to have them there in case I need them. But like Clapton sang: "It's in the way that you use it..." (I hate that song...)Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Are you a singer? It doesn't matter...either way, sometimes one just can't remember all the words to all of their songs so IMO it's better to have a music stand with a book of lyrics rather than have a bunch of loose papers flying all over the stage. We all know that the big name acts (a lot of them, anyway) use monitors with scrolling lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yer Blues Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I don't like it, but it's not really enough to turn me off from a performance. Joe Blow cover guy can't spend the money for a telemprompter like a national touring band. Then there's always the orchestra with sheet music in front of them. Are these musicians lazy and unprofessional, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I don't like it, but it's not really enough to turn me off from a performance. Joe Blow cover guy can't spend the money for a telemprompter like a national touring band. Then there's always the orchestra with sheet music in front of them. Are these musicians lazy and unprofessional, too? I'm willing to bet that one symphony has as many musical tricks in it as 10 bar band gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 In my group, the guitarist has one he uses primarily for the set list and the occasional song he doesn't quite have down yet. The bassist on the other side of the stage also uses one, but he uses his as a heavy crutch. He has a big binder of lyrics that he will flip through. I sing most of the songs in the middle of the stage. Since I don't want the view of me and the drummer to be blocked by a stand, I don't use one. I know most of the songs, but sometimes there are a few lines I forget or put in the wrong spot (2nd verse and 3rd mixed up), so I have a few of them printed out with very small font (6 to 8 pt), cut into little sheets about the size of my hand, and placed on top of my keyboard. Sometimes, I don't even look at them, but it's there if I do. I attribute it to age and lack of time, but I am striving to get to the point where I don't have to read any of them. I'd rather interact with the crowd, something you can't do very well if you are constantly staring at words. My ex-bandleader is terrible for that. He claims he needs the music stand for his harmonicas, but he primarily uses it for looking at song lyrics. He does that 40-50% of the time. It's very frustrating watching him flipping through the book, then watching the dance floor clear. The lyrics range from handwritten to printed from websites and they are not in any kind of order at all. In my view, I don't care for music stands and wish bands didn't use them, but I'd rather they use them than sing the wrong lyrics (or completely forget them!) and stand there like an idiot as the band plays on. Had that happen in a band I was in too. Boy, that was extremely embarassing. I wasn't the singer for that group, but I wanted to hide anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yer Blues Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I'm willing to bet that one symphony has as many musical tricks in it as 10 bar band gigs. What is a "musical trick"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 A lot of us have given grief to new bands that take the lazy way out and load their set lists with the same old tired classic rock songs that they've played before. It makes it easier to get the band out the door, and of course, a lot of these songs still get people on the dance floor, but . . . . If you want to pick songs that you think will suit the styles of the new players and will still have a chance of being effective, it's going to take a lot more work . . . including learning a lot of new lyrics. My band is in that situation now. All of us are singing harmony on most of the songs, we're each helping out with the lead vocals, and the lead singer is being asked to stretch way outside his 80s roots. That's what we all wanted, despite the extra work involved. The drummer/lead singer has a book on a stand; so do I. We rarely refer to them, but it helps to avoid train wrecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 A very early incarnation of my current band had a guy singer who relied on a book so much that he kept it on a music stand set about 5' high. Then he'd take that page and hold it out in front of him and read the lyrics. He sang like he was reading them too. He lasted 1 gig. Our current singer never uses any cheat sheets. She normally doesn't even need them at rehearsal, maybe once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Stands? For a rock band? C'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Stands? For a rock band? C'mon. Well, I think if you need 'em, you need 'em and it's better to use a music stand for lyrics than forget the words and the band have to stop in the middle of a song. For some reason I can't remember the words to "Wagon Wheel" or "Keep on Rockin' in the Free World" for anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well, I think if you need 'em, you need 'em and it's better to use a music stand for lyrics than forget the words and the band have to stop in the middle of a song. For some reason I can't remember the words to "Wagon Wheel" or "Keep on Rockin' in the Free World" for anything! this is going to be one of those threads where every band thinks of their particular situation and projects it on every other band. Here's the deal: if you have the type of band where you are mostly making background music or playing dinner crowds etc etc a music stand isn't the end of the world. Would it be better if you knew the lyrics to every song? Yeah, sure but it isn't a catastrophe. On the other hand, if you have a band who's set is to be an energetic show, reading lyrics off a mic stand impairs your ability to put on said show and shouldn't be onstage. If you want to tell me you can fully engage a crowd without making eye contact you're full of {censored}... unless you're stevie wonder or Ray Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Nice pro black stand sitting low with a black binder and page protected lyrics in it. Our front man uses one and it's no problem to me at all. Plus he rarely looks at it anyways. If you're standing there reading it that's another story. It's just like giving a speech...you can have references but don't stand there reading. Not that complicated. Honestly I don't think 80% of people even notice it, and 19.9 of the 20% that do don't give a crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 If you don't know the songs, don't play it!! It's an insult to the audience to deliver music you haven't learned!! Besides, it is and looks LAME .To the guys who says you have it to the side, discret and barely look at it etc.... : It's still LAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 this is going to be one of those threads where every band thinks of their particular situation and projects it on every other band. Here's the deal: if you have the type of band where you are mostly making background music or playing dinner crowds etc etc a music stand isn't the end of the world. Would it be better if you knew the lyrics to every song? Yeah, sure but it isn't a catastrophe. On the other hand, if you have a band who's set is to be an energetic show, reading lyrics off a mic stand impairs your ability to put on said show and shouldn't be onstage. If you want to tell me you can fully engage a crowd without making eye contact you're full of {censored}... unless you're stevie wonder or Ray Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkwire Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I will occasionally need a lyric cheat sheet the first 3 or 4 times I do a song. If I do, I put the sheet on my monitor so I can look down. I would never use a music stand for lyrics. After a few times, I get the words down and I throw the cheat sheet away. I've found that people who regularly use cheat sheets lean on them as a crutch and just keep using them. The worst I ever saw was a lead singer who had a notebook with lyrics. He left it on the floor, and spent half the night looking at his feet instead of engaging the crowd. I kid you not---he looked down at the notebook before singing "Sha la la" in 'Brown-Eyed Girl'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Our singer is a great frontman... good looking, approachable, interacts with the crowd. He tends to fall flat on some notes and some songs are a bit out of his range... yet everyone in the audience gives him a pass because he is moving around so much... he looks better than he sounds. I've taken it for granted that as long as I've known him he hasn't used lyric sheets or a mic stand once. Maybe in 1000 shows he's forgotten the lyrics to a song maybe 3 times. Honestly I don't know how he remembers all of that. For me I can remember notes but trying to remember the words along with the pitch they are delivered... We play 60-80 songs a night and we are constantly changing the setlist and song order. I think it's pretty amazing. I'm reminded of that fact when I see other bands and the singer is standing in place, reading lyrics from a music stand. I don't think it's a big deal if a singer is using a stand... but it's not the same show as a band with a front person who is constantly working the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratotastic Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 this is going to be one of those threads where every band thinks of their particular situation and projects it on every other band. Not necessarily true. One of our members uses one for a few tunes and it's a big point of contention. We're working on it. Personally I HATE seeing music stands on stage. It indicates to me that the person does not take it seriously, and if they don't, then why should I or the audience? Even if I haven't heard a note I immediately think "amateur" and they have that to overcome right off the bat. That being said, it is a sliding scale, though. Stick some cats behind music stands and if they tear the place down, ripping Zeppelin a new asshole, it won't matter one bit. Or if you're a virtuoso band impressive to pimply dorks that run up and look at your gear between sets, it probably won't matter much there either. But if you're a mediocre band and/or your package is the SHOW, playing to a bunch of regular folks looking to dance, get drunk, and have a good time, standing like a tree behind a music stand is only gonna be detrimental. And don't even start with the stupid orchestras-do-it-they're-not-professional? bull{censored}. {censored}ing please. Entirely different thing. The fact that anyone would bring that up just advertises how little they know about music. If you've ever been to a symphony orchestra, you realize it's ENTIRELY about the music and NOTHING ELSE. There is no "show" at a symphony except for the music itself, and the music goes beyond something untrained guitar hackers learning Nirvana tunes in mom's basement could even dream of pulling off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yer Blues Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 ... and the music goes beyond something untrained guitar hackers learning Nirvana tunes in mom's basement could even dream of pulling off. IIRC, Nirvana used music stands when they did Unplugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I don't like it, but it's not really enough to turn me off from a performance. Joe Blow cover guy can't spend the money for a telemprompter like a national touring band. Then there's always the orchestra with sheet music in front of them. Are these musicians lazy and unprofessional, too? Well Orchestras are not supposed to be interacting a bunch of drunk dancing people 3 feet in front of them. And we can go in the way back machine when teleprompters didn't exist. Have you ever seen The Beatles or the Stones using a music stand? (Serious question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 I despise the use of music stands on stage in a rock setting.DESPISE If you want to get some old-school big band wrap-around deal with the light and the band logo printed on the front, then ok, otherwise...DESPISE That being said, my side-project has 2 guys who do the binder on the floor or uber-low stand thing; the band is a side-project for everyone, and we put minimal effort into rehearsals (maybe 1x before a gig), so I think it's a comfort thing for them. Of course, that band plays songs by only one artist, rarely adds new material, and the band we 'tribute' has been defunct since ~85, so it's not as if there isn't ample opportunity to learn/know the entire catalog by heart at this point... Personally? I may have a song or two that I sing backups on that I struggle with the first few times we play them. I print the lines I sing in larger font, gaff tape them to the bottom of my setlist (which is usually taped to our IEM rack to my immediate left), and give them a quick glance to jog my memory before the song starts: it's not too easy to play drums, look down/to the side to read AND sing into a mic right in front of your face, so I don't use the crutch 'in song' because I physically can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 this is going to be one of those threads where every band thinks of their particular situation and projects it on every other band. Here's the deal: if you have the type of band where you are mostly making background music or playing dinner crowds etc etc a music stand isn't the end of the world. Would it be better if you knew the lyrics to every song? Yeah, sure but it isn't a catastrophe. On the other hand, if you have a band who's set is to be an energetic show, reading lyrics off a mic stand impairs your ability to put on said show and shouldn't be onstage. If you want to tell me you can fully engage a crowd without making eye contact you're full of {censored}... unless you're stevie wonder or Ray Charles. This is my point. It impedes on the connection between you and the crowd. For a band to be "energetic" you need to be focused on entertaining. Not being on one side of the stage then say "Oh crap what's the second verse" and run back to the lyrics sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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