Members jwlussow Posted July 9, 2011 Members Share Posted July 9, 2011 And look jwlusslow, all respect here. You are totally entitled to your opinion, reasons, etc. and you obviously have been at it for a while. So respect is due. We just pull differently here....I gotta hear and see them before I judge. You don't. All good. All good. We have a difference of opinion but this never really got to a personal attack thread. I do thank you for that. I don't want the fights but I do have opinions (right or wrong) that I abide by. Thank God this isn't a construction forum talking about cement trucks....they are CONCRETE TRUCKS not cement trucks....OK I might be an idiot but I am true to my convictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted July 10, 2011 Members Share Posted July 10, 2011 ....OK I might be an idiot but I am true to my convictions... Wow, now we finally have something in common, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted July 10, 2011 Members Share Posted July 10, 2011 ....they are CONCRETE TRUCKS not cement trucks.... God bless you. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think its still you ,, because you are way too worked up over this subject. Who cares if some players use a music stand? It doesnt effect you at all. Nothing ANYBODY here does with their bands affects me at all, or any of us. Having a position on what is and is not good stage etiquette has nothing whatsoever to do with insecurities. But I do find very odd this position you often take that anyone who is trying to do anything more with their music beside play in dinner clubs for free food and drink is somehow over-reaching, wasting their time, or has a Peter Pan complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Here's your unicorn sir. Grammy winner Lucinda Williams. Honestly, THAT whole setup is bordering on pretentious, IMO. There's a "doesn't my giant music stand make me look more like a serious songwriter?" thing going on their that I find really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Honestly, THAT whole setup is bordering on pretentious, IMO. There's a "doesn't my giant music stand make me look more like a serious songwriter?" thing going on their that I find really annoying. The thing about someone like Lucinda Williams, or any famous artist, is that there's a lot of counter-examples: George Strait...his #1 singles alone (57) are more than any other artist. No music stands. Alan Jackson 34 #1's no music stands. The list goes on and on. Honestly, I think Lucinda could probably get away with it more BECAUSE of the whole singer songwriter beatnik vibe... But I've got a question for the guys and gals giving a hard time to jwlussow over walking out on the bar band over the music stand. Are you a LITTLE offended if you're dropping big bucks for a show and there's a music stand? I mean, a big name artist at a concert is playing at most 30 songs on tour...they can't take the time to memorize those, but are charging top dollar for tickets??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 But I do find very odd this position you often take that anyone who is trying to do anything more with their music beside play in dinner clubs for free food and drink is somehow over-reaching, wasting their time, or has a Peter Pan complex. I second this assessment. Why is that, TIMKEYS? Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 But I've got a question for the guys and gals giving a hard time to jwlussow over walking out on the bar band over the music stand. Are you a LITTLE offended if you're dropping big bucks for a show and there's a music stand? I mean, a big name artist at a concert is playing at most 30 songs on tour...they can't take the time to memorize those, but are charging top dollar for tickets??? I don't care if the show is fun and the music is good. I think that's where we all differ on this. Some people can't stand it (pun not intended, but regretted anyway), others are just, "meh". I personally don't understand (there's that damn unintentional pun again) why people who only play 30 songs a show NEED a stand, unless they have a LARGE catalog and they aren't playing the same 30 songs every night, but again, for me it's always the music and the performance are what matters. Not the stage hardware. Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Honestly, I think Lucinda could probably get away with it more BECAUSE of the whole singer songwriter beatnik vibe... Oh, no doubt that makes it more acceptible. At the same time, I recently saw Rickie Lee Jones do a great show with no music stand. Joni Mitchell? Norah Jones? I'm pretty sure no music stands. I really do believe there's a bit of Lucinda doing that for the "vibe". I wouldn't be surprised at all if she thinks it helps add to the "ambience" of her serious-singer/songwriter schtick. I mean seriously...which of the songs that she is going to perform during that show does she actually need sheet music or lyric sheets for? I know she's written a lot of songs, but does she actually have trouble remembeing her own lyrics to the 12-15 songs she's playing during any particular tour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 I don't care if the show is fun and the music is good. As is often the case, I was thinking about a BSWTB "debate" during a gig. Yesterday we were playing this private birthday party gig at a winery for a 30 year old girl and about 35-40 of her friends. They had a blast. WE had a blast. GREAT small party. Everyone dancing and singing and yelling and screaming and having a great time. Everyone seemed to love the band. And at one point in the middle of all this I start thinking about this thread. Would anyone have noticed or cared if we had a music stand on stage? No. (If, for no other reason, because they were mostly all too drunk to notice.) Certainly no one would have walked out. (Actually, at one point, the birthday girl was up singing along on a song with us and she noticed the lyrics to the song taped to a monitor and immediately started using them to help her sing along....lol) But even STILL...that's not REALLY the point. The point is we go to a degree of effort to create a certain look for the band. Would anyone have cared if we didn't use the drum riser that took us several minutes to set up? Or use the banner with our logo behind the band that took several minutes to set up? Or if we had used half the lighting we spend good money on and took a great deal of time up and dial in probably? No, no and no to all of those questions. The music stand is the same thing. Is it ever going to be a 'deal breaker' for audience members? Almost certainly not. But if you have one on stage and it is visible then it IS part of the bands overall visual presentation. Is that REALLY part of the presentation any rock band wants to make? It might be for Lucinda Williams. But should it be for you? (Generic "you") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 The music stand is the same thing. Is it ever going to be a 'deal breaker' for audience members? Almost certainly not. But if you have one on stage and it is visible then it IS part of the bands overall visual presentation. Is that REALLY part of the presentation any rock band wants to make? It might be for Lucinda Williams. But should it be for you? (Generic "you") That's a question we all answer for ourselves...for me, the answer is yes, because I know it helps me get through a show giving a BETTER performance than if I didn't have it. Maybe my visual presentation suffers (I keep it pretty low and off to the side, so not as much as someone center stage), but those brain fart moments really screw me up, as for me that involves trying to hold down the groove on bass and sing well and remember all the words at the same time for pretty much the ENTIRE SHOW (the drummer sings two songs), so I still use the stand. The other added benefit is that it allows me to have a larger selection of songs for requests (much like the acoustic guys have mentioned). So far, it hasn't hampered anything for me, so I still have it there...like Linus' security blanket. Great discussion, all! Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 I don't care if the show is fun and the music is good. I think that's where we all differ on this. Some people can't stand it (pun not intended, but regretted anyway), others are just, "meh". I personally don't understand (there's that damn unintentional pun again) why people who only play 30 songs a show NEED a stand, unless they have a LARGE catalog and they aren't playing the same 30 songs every night, but again, for me it's always the music and the performance are what matters. Not the stage hardware.Brian V. I can see that...for me, for some reason, I can't get past the respect issue. I'm dropping (insert $ amount over $20 here), and you can't take the time to learn the lyrics to a bunch of your hit songs that the bulk of the people in the audience know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 The thing about someone like Lucinda Williams, or any famous artist, is that there's a lot of counter-examples:George Strait...his #1 singles alone (57) are more than any other artist. No music stands. Alan Jackson 34 #1's no music stands. The list goes on and on.Honestly, I think Lucinda could probably get away with it more BECAUSE of the whole singer songwriter beatnik vibe...But I've got a question for the guys and gals giving a hard time to jwlussow over walking out on the bar band over the music stand. Are you a LITTLE offended if you're dropping big bucks for a show and there's a music stand? I mean, a big name artist at a concert is playing at most 30 songs on tour...they can't take the time to memorize those, but are charging top dollar for tickets??? I cant see where an artist is going to need a chart for one of his 30 songs.,, but I can see where they might have a promter CRT tube down on stage out of sight and even some auto tune. I can also see them running tracks. these guys have a career and alot of money riding on every performance. One brain fart and its all over the industry. If any of us clam somthing at a show and it just goes out into space and no harm no foul ,, no one gives a {censored}. No one here is really in the league of the guys you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins co-wrote quite few songs. This is obviously a high end venue, yet you'll notice music stands all over the place. . . . except where it was needed. Go to 2:00. IMHO, a teleprompter (not a music stand!) would have been a good idea. [video=youtube;gWgbYA3cMCY] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KeysBear Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Unbelievable! I always thought Michael McDonald was a professional. Now I know he isn't. I would have walked out at that point along with all the other people who couldn't stay in a room with anyone unprofessional. If I had stayed my career would have been ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Unbelievable! I always thought Michael McDonald was a professional. Now I know he isn't. I would have walked out at that point along with all the other people who couldn't stay in a room with anyone unprofessional. If I had stayed my career would have been ruined. Notice that all the famous musicians that are being brought up in this thread have one thing in common. They are all OLD. They probably are having memory problems so they need the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Notice that all the famous musicians that are being brought up in this thread have one thing in common. They are all OLD. They probably are having memory problems so they need the stands. And most all DIDN'T use them when they were young. I don't ever recall seeing Michael McDonald use a music stand with the Doobie Brothers in the 70s/80s. Why does he decide he needs one now? Is it an age thing? Is it now a perk he believes he has earned due to all the years he's spent building a fan base? He's doing more shows now where he just "sits-in" more than he used to? Who knows the exact reason, but I fully understand and believe that McDonald has earned to ability to get away with using one. The musicians on THIS forum, however? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted July 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ok guys, this is getting ridiculous. We're not going to have a 20 page thread about music stands onstage. Go play outside! :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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