Members DeepEnd Posted January 5, 2022 Members Share Posted January 5, 2022 A couple of unrelated things from Sunday morning. First, the praise band plays "The Virgin Mary Had a Baby Boy" once a year and this was the day. There's a G7 with no 3rd in it at one point and although I've tried both a G7 and a Gm7, neither sounds right. The song is in F and I finally got inspired and tuned my guitar to F C C F C F for open F5. I figured I could just barre at the 2nd fret and live without the 7th. It worked surprisingly well. Second, we're currently doing online worship with only a skeleton crew in the building since our pastor was exposed to a family member who has COVID. As the "special music," our Music Director decided to play a flute solo. It wasn't until she was halfway through it that someone realized she wasn't miced. Our main sound guy grabbed a wireless mic and knelt beside her with it. Nice save but in retrospect it shouldn't have happened in the first place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 6, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2022 You music director should have known if he/she were mic-ed...and the sound guy should have caught it much sooner...like the 1st bar....I'd fire them both...😉 I'm going to assume this was intended as crossed voice leading...what chord preceded the 'G7 no third' and what chord did it lead to? the G7 'with no third' is because in F major there is no G major, and the 'b' in Gmajor would be dischordant... playing a Gm7 [the ii7] won't do it, either...but by not having a third, then the chord isn't a 'G7', and was likely transcribed as that by a lazy person...typically when I see these chords, I ignore them and play whatever triad they indicate...here it would be a 'g', a 'd' and an 'f'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 12, 2022 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2022 The "music" I had access to was just a "songbook" with lyrics, chords and melody notes so until recently I had no real idea what other notes were actually being played. The melody note that goes with the mystery chord is F. The chord is actually written as G7 but it doesn't sound right. I figured it was a typo and tried Gm7 but that didn't sound right either so I settled on G7 with no 3rd. But that was only a guess. I was finally able to get hold of the actual sheet music and there the first two instances of the chord are written as Dm7! The notes are D A C F so that fits. The third instance is written as F/A and the notes are A F A F. There must be serious typos in the other version. Another song in the same book has an A7 where even my tin ear can tell there should be an A6 (the melody notes are F# followed by E). I think it's probably intended for people who only know cowboy chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted January 24, 2022 Members Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 1/12/2022 at 3:01 AM, DeepEnd said: The "music" I had access to was just a "songbook" with lyrics, chords and melody notes so until recently I had no real idea what other notes were actually being played. The melody note that goes with the mystery chord is F. The chord is actually written as G7 but it doesn't sound right. I figured it was a typo and tried Gm7 but that didn't sound right either so I settled on G7 with no 3rd. But that was only a guess. I was finally able to get hold of the actual sheet music and there the first two instances of the chord are written as Dm7! The notes are D A C F so that fits. The third instance is written as F/A and the notes are A F A F. There must be serious typos in the other version. Another song in the same book has an A7 where even my tin ear can tell there should be an A6 (the melody notes are F# followed by E). I think it's probably intended for people who only know cowboy chords. Getting reliable, useful music for worship songs can be a major challenge. Even with a source like Song Select there are weird chords that don't belobg or the chord change is sometimes in the wrong place. There have been times too when I've needed to play a song without chords being given - just a key and follow the piano - and sometimes what sounds good like that can be deeply incompatible on another occasion when someone has got the 'right' chords' off t'internet. Most of the time it feels like the chords were written by an acoustic guitarist who insists on lots of open strings while fretting chords high on the neck. 🙄 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 24, 2022 Members Share Posted January 24, 2022 What used to throw me off, we get the song sheets and I look it over and get everything worked out.  When we meet for practice the pianist complains that E has too many sharps , can we use the flat? Of course the singers don’t mind so I do my best to go along. The problem is I can’t just use a capo if I’m already playing E so I spend practice relearning the song .  I solved the problem by learning certain songs in two different keys to anticipate the change.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, gardo said: What used to throw me off, we get the song sheets and I look it over and get everything worked out.  When we meet for practice the pianist complains that E has too many sharps , can we use the flat? Of course the singers don’t mind so I do my best to go along. The problem is I can’t just use a capo if I’m already playing E so I spend practice relearning the song .  I solved the problem by learning certain songs in two different keys to anticipate the change.  That when you tell the pianist C# is the best. for all. Ask the pianist if they would kick to borrows a capo. Smart move on your part on learning songs in a few keys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) The organist for my church called me last week to see if I could play a bass part. He's mid 80's and hurt his foot. No problem, would he prefer bass, or organ bass using my guitar synth? He chose the organ voice. Practiced it Friday and Saturday, sounded fine. (Remember, I look at notation, and if I connect the dots, I get a hippo in a bunch of reeds.) I read well enough to know what key, harmonic structure.... but the timing always eluded me. So I sit and listen and learn by a combination of reading and listening. So here comes Sunday.... Go there about an hour early, do my little set up, have a spare guitar just in case.... do a little practice with headphones by myself... yadda yadda yadda... He comes in 5 minutes before church starts, and tells me, he changed the key from Fmaj to DbMaj, and 2 minutes later, starts playing. Thank God the Roland has a pitch shift function! Played the part, enjoyed the 3 people that clapped, sat and did the rest of the service, and afterwards, told him how "F"-ing annoying it is to have practiced something like that, a certain way, and to have it changed 3 minutes before playing the gig. He looked at me like I started speaking in tongues. Edited January 25, 2022 by badpenguin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 25, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, gardo said: What used to throw me off, we get the song sheets and I look it over and get everything worked out.  When we meet for practice the pianist complains that E has too many sharps , can we use the flat? Of course the singers don’t mind so I do my best to go along. The problem is I can’t just use a capo if I’m already playing E so I spend practice relearning the song .  I solved the problem by learning certain songs in two different keys to anticipate the change.  Several years ago, for a while, I backed a lady vocalist who insisted everything be in Eb...it was 'her key' [it actually wasn't, she was far better in C] so I would just tune down one guitar rather than re-learn the songs...most of which were in Emi for some reason...she really liked minor keys. When I would chart for my band, I used the 'Roman' numbering system, rather than actual chords, so we could change keys pretty easily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 52 minutes ago, daddymack said: Several years ago, for a while, I backed a lady vocalist who insisted everything be in Eb...it was 'her key' [it actually wasn't, she was far better in C] so I would just tune down one guitar rather than re-learn the songs...most of which were in Emi for some reason...she really liked minor keys. When I would chart for my band, I used the 'Roman' numbering system, rather than actual chords, so we could change keys pretty easily. Having a second guitar tuned a half step down would be perfect as long as there’s time to switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Mikeo said: That when you tell the pianist C# is the best. for all. Ask the pianist if they would kick to borrows a capo. Smart move on your part on learning songs in a few keys. C# inn too bad, It's all the black keys, the b and e sharps are c and f and when you get ##, just play the closest white key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 hours ago, 1001gear said: C# inn too bad, It's all the black keys, the b and e sharps are c and f and when you get ##, just play the closest white key. Okay then maybe we should suggest B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 25, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, gardo said: Okay then maybe we should suggest B or F# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 25, 2022 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2022 14 hours ago, gardo said: Having a second guitar tuned a half step down would be perfect as long as there’s time to switch. During our second 'rehearsal', when she explained her key preference, I only had one guitar, but I dropped it a half step while she was still talking.... apparently none of her other past accompanists had ever taken that approach...maybe I'm lazy...but it worked out pretty well I keep my Martin 12 and another acoustic tuned to D to accommodate my voice as well, rather than relearning scads of songs and most horn and keyboard players appreciate that I'm actually playing in C, not D I also came to dislike capos over the years, so although I own half a dozen, I couldn't tell you where any of them are ATM...😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 capos are for emergency use only but do make certain songs a lot easier to play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 One of the things that I love about electric is that most of the time key is irrelevant, and you just shift about on the neck. As long as nothing weird comes along it works really well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 25, 2022 Members Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Ancient Mariner said: One of the things that I love about electric is that most of the time key is irrelevant, and you just shift about on the neck. As long as nothing weird comes along it works really well. Now you’re playing jazz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 26, 2022 Author Members Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 12:37 PM, Ancient Mariner said: Getting reliable, useful music for worship songs can be a major challenge. Even with a source like Song Select there are weird chords that don't belobg or the chord change is sometimes in the wrong place. . . . Yes, I hate that. It's like whoever worked out the chords doesn't even play guitar. On 1/24/2022 at 4:34 PM, gardo said: What used to throw me off, we get the song sheets and I look it over and get everything worked out.  When we meet for practice the pianist complains that E has too many sharps , can we use the flat? Of course the singers don’t mind so I do my best to go along. The problem is I can’t just use a capo if I’m already playing E so I spend practice relearning the song .  I solved the problem by learning certain songs in two different keys to anticipate the change.  Our Music Director is very good about not doing stuff like that. And it helps that we're just playing instrumentals these days. Occasionally we'll need to change keys to accommodate a vocalist but she usually gives me enough advance notice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted January 29, 2022 Members Share Posted January 29, 2022 On 1/26/2022 at 2:52 AM, DeepEnd said: Yes, I hate that. It's like whoever worked out the chords doesn't even play guitar. Pianists. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted February 2, 2022 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/29/2022 at 6:11 AM, Ancient Mariner said: Pianists. 😅 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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