Members EmgEsp Posted August 8, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2017 But is that a guitar someone is actually going to play regularly? Seems like more of a show-piece item you lock behind a glass case. I can't imagine someone actually putting in a ton of play time in such an expensive guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted August 8, 2017 Members Share Posted August 8, 2017 And if he's got a waiting list for his services and can regularly build and sell instruments in the $30k+ per guitar price range, he's definitely in that category. Welcome to the world of small production, hand-built, high-end, boutique artisan instruments. Probably small change to Dumble. There is much money to made off making the best or the most sought after. EmG, $30K???? Then go check out the cost of Billy Gibbon's Pearly Gates, or Allman's Les Paul, and get back to us. There are a lot of folks that might NEVER have to work again for the value of Pearly. Also, I have a friend that played his original '58 Flying V since high school in every bar around, and only sold a number of years ago to a guy that wanted it for the cover of his "History of..." something???? He got $85K because he had shaved the neck in high school. Original would have been worth a good chunk more, but he played it for 40 years in local bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted August 8, 2017 Members Share Posted August 8, 2017 The Kirk Hammet ESP was lucite, I looked it up. There was, apparently, three made. One sold in the last couple of years, not Kirk's, for 6k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 You might be surprised by what people have brought into my studio to use on recordings over the years... and I know of some players who use those same expensive instruments live, although that's much less common, at least in the rock world and on larger / longer tours where things tend to get bashed up more frequently. Jazz musicians in particular have rather expensive tastes - and high-end archtops generally aren't cheap to begin with. But you see jazzers playing expensive instruments fairly often - how they can afford it (Q. How do you make a small fortune playing / recording Jazz? A. Start with a large fortune... ) I'll probably never know, but a lot of Jazz musicians stick with one or two really nice instruments and use them for almost everything they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doublecross Posted August 9, 2017 Members Share Posted August 9, 2017 I've given some though to building them, But I have some skill working in this medium, Motorsports/autobody, and it aint exactly the easiest medium to work with, and it aint cheap, Supro did it for years with the Airlines but those were fiberglass, Marketed as Resoglass. Ever played one? if so you'd know they were love or hate and had a unique sound to them, I did battle with one of the Guitar Kits USA Resoglass guitars just to see what they were doing and if I could copy it in CF. Easy enough I suppose, but haven't got around to building the cure cabinet, which consists of a vibrating vacuum infrared ordeal if you want to do it right. Again easy enough to build, Just aint got around to it. People ask me what I plan to do when I retire in a few years and I just smile knowing building guitars will be one of the things I'll be doing, And I have found a trick to calming the unique sound down a bit buy using a 3/16 sheet of nickel alloy for a backing over its spine, Mind you this is a fiberglass kit guitar and I went a bit overboard with the electronics and cosmetics, but it does weigh and sound like a normal guitar, Sort of, It is a Midi after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 9, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2017 They are master graded for looks, not tone. To master grade a piece of wood for tone would be totally arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 10, 2017 Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 No, they select for both, which is one of the things that brings the cost way up compared to the budget lines outsourced to east Asia. It's just not even close and until you experience it you don't know what you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 10, 2017 Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 The best professional musicians use the best instruments. It's their livelihood and you'd be naive to think that your opinion is common amongst pros.How much is a pro cello? Drum kit? Saxophone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted August 10, 2017 Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 I've played (and owned) a Parker Fly. Mine was a Fly Classic and it was one of the most lifeless, boring guitars I've ever owned. The sound was dull and completely uninspiring... Physically it was cool and I loved the bridge, but it just didn't have anything special about the sound. I'd liken it to a keyboard. Just a tone generator. And yes, they're made from a lot of CF. The entire back is CF with just the front of the body being wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 10, 2017 Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 The carbon fiber cello in the very first post is a Luis and Clark, played by Scott Crowley. Yo Yo Ma also plays one from time to time. Apparently they start at $7139 which seems like a pretty reasonable price for a mass produced cello https://luisandclark.com/product/cello/ Their bass is $13K, again, darn reasonable, altho I doubt that EmgEsp would think so. But then these aren't solid body guitars so the point is kind of moot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted August 10, 2017 Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 Exactly. It's all relative - why buy a Peterbilt with a double-sleeper if you only do once a month short hauls. But at the same time, if you're hauling cross country every week, it only makes sense. You wouldn't try that with a jockey truck. I thought, at first, he might be open to certain ideas, but his last couple of threads and posts definitely prove otherwise. He's as close minded as the traditionalists he claims to not be able to stand. And he contradicts himself - one thread on why are guitars expensive, then another praising guitars that routinely exceed 5-6K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 10, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2017 No, I understand quality classical instruments are much more expensive than your average electric guitar, so I don't take issue with the prices. Obviously that genre of music was always aimed at the elite who could afford such things. Rock n Roll is for us simpletons lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 11, 2017 Members Share Posted August 11, 2017 I have a friend up in NJ who buys and sells major artists guitars. Some of the prices on regular stock instruments is astounding. He pulled a few out for me to play when I was up there last time like a Strat owned by John Oates or Hall and Oats. He paid 20K for it and figured he could get 56K for it. There was nothing special about it whatsoever and in fact it needed allot of work to make it a good player, hardware was in bad shape, badly pitted, frets were worn and allot of string buzz, needed a new nut etc. The prices were based on market value and what someone is willing to play. People who buy these kinds of instruments aren't buying them to play them, they buy them as a piece of musical history and often collect them just like people buy paintings or any other piece of famous artwork. Hand made guitars are bought by people who appreciate the craftsmanship and can afford the costs. They either want something unique that no one else has, a one of a kind, or maybe just a status symbol to show off so they can say - see what I got. Allot of this has to do with the people you hang with. If you're a major artist and work with other famous artists you may want to impress friends and can afford the best. More likely however, many times they are bought by common people who can simply afford them. I know many a person who played when they were young, then followed a career in other areas like business. They made massive amounts of cash and simply want the best money can buy. Many wouldn't even know the difference between a good or bad instrument and they figure the price of a custom built must make it a good instrument. Not all are, in fact one of my buddies got burned badly on a build. There's a Luthier here in Houston that builds custom instruments. I'll skip names for professional reasons but this guy waited 3 years for his fretless 6 string bass to be built. When he finally got it he couldn't get it to play right and all the markers were off. They were placed where a fretted instrument would have them between frets instead of at the frets themselves.He had me look at it and I could only do so much tweaking it to get it right. It was a neck through instrument too. He eventually took it back and waited another year to have the fret board re-planed, binding replaced and markers reset. It never did become what I'd call a superior instrument, but then I've built enough to know how difficult it can be to come up with an instrument that truly shines above the rest. you can build a hundred guitars to the exact same specs and you'll be lucky if one winds up being really special. Often times its totally unexpected. Its mainly the grain of wood just winds up working in your favor. Its like the Stradivarius Violins. They were made from wood grown during the little ice age where the rings of the trees grew very lean. This made for a very tight dense grain with very little soft pulp between the bark layers and produced amazing resonant tones. Of course he was a master craftsman too. What it all boils down to, if you had the money to spend, would you invest it in quality instruments or blow the cash on consumables. When you buy the right gear at the right price, the money isn't lost, its invested. You can always sell the gear to recoup your money and if you buy right you can even turn a nice profit. Custom made instruments have a small market simply because there aren't as many people who do quality work. I'll also add its the work that costs the most. If it takes you 3 months to build an instrument, and you pay yourself minimum wage of $7.25 and hour you're looking at around $3500 (if you put in 8 hour 5 day work weeks. An average Luther should be charging $25 and hour or higher and up so 3 months would be about $12,000 in labor and allow him a living of around 40K per year. Your better/famous luthiers can of course earn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted August 11, 2017 Members Share Posted August 11, 2017 I've never met a luthier that would charge $12,000 for a guitar. I don't think even Dumble charged that much for one of his amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 11, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2017 How is something graded for tone? 1. You can't judge tone just by looking at a piece of wood. 2. Tone is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 11, 2017 Members Share Posted August 11, 2017 You're gonna have to stump up at least $30K for a Dumble. Possibly up to $100K or more. He only makes a few every year, mostly for famous guitarists. He is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 11, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2017 $100K for a new guitar is highway robbery unless he's installing freaking diamonds on it. $100K makes sense for antique guitars with historical significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted August 12, 2017 Members Share Posted August 12, 2017 Interesting. I played a Parker nightfly mojo or something like that....carbon fibre neck was pretty amazing feeling...but just like Raven I found it to be lifeless and dull. Sounded like all I was playing was a nice set of pickups. Thing is, the nightfly was a mahogany guitar, but it had the typical american poly coccoon finish. I kind of attributed that to the dullness of it, but I suppose the neck could have contributed also. I'd totally be willing to try a pure CF guitar though. I suspect it's just not a very resonant material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 16, 2017 Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 Bump I just saw this [video=youtube_share;d_6hXZvYdj0] I had forgotten about Emerald building carbon fiber guitars - they have a pretty complete range of products (including the harp guitar). They even have a custom shop..... http://emeraldguitars.com/emerald-guitar-range/?v=7516fd43adaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 16, 2017 Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eOQVdT2ogr0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 16, 2017 Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 He make amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 16, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 He is literally just tapping on wood and acting like the way the wood responds to that tap is relevant to a solid body electric guitar. If he was doing the same demonstration on an acoustic then yeah it would be relevant. The pickups could care less how the body resonates, because it simply just picks up vibrations of the strings. The way you pick and the material you use for picks will actually make a difference in tone because it actually affects how the string vibrates. Its just simply a flawed experiment. Even Freeman Keller would probably agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 16, 2017 Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 I realise you think you know more about wood and guitars than the Fender custom shop builders. The reality is the opposite, but don't let that stop you from continuing your misguided crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EmgEsp Posted August 16, 2017 Author Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 It is in Fender's best interest to take advantage of people's ignorance by selling them on snake oil. That "test" he did is absolutely useless and irrelevant when talking about a solid body electric guitar. You can't just tap on a piece of wood and claim one will sound a certain way over another. It just doesn't work that way. Again, we are talking solid body electric guitars not acoustics. Pickups don't work like microphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted August 16, 2017 Members Share Posted August 16, 2017 From Wikipedia: Dumble musical instrument amplifiers are custom manufactured in very limited numbers by Alexander "Howard" Dumble of Los Angeles, California. Dumble is a one-person operation; each amp is handcrafted by Dumble himself, and Dumble amplifiers are the most expensive boutique amplifiers on the used market.[1] These costs are rising rapidly. In 2012 the Dumble Overdrive Special was described as the most valuable, with used amplifiers fetching on average between $70,000 and $150,000 apiece.[2] Other examples have sold for more. [3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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