Members u6crash Posted January 29, 2017 Members Share Posted January 29, 2017 One of my New Years resolutions is to finally build a guitar. I've talked about it and read about it forever. Filed my taxes on Wednesday and I've started to buy some of the parts already. For the past few hours I've been taking a paper sketch into Illustrator to do a mockup of what my guitar might look like. And here is the result: The body is not going to be everyone's cup of tea. That's okay, I'm building it for myself. Telecasters are cool, but there are millions of them. My design is largely inspired by funky guitars like the Danelectro Pro and the lesser known Worlatron, etc. Used actual dimensions of parts and things to get things lined up...except they don't. I was going for a Vintage Fender string spread at the bridge (which means I get to cut notches into blank saddles) of 2.1875" and it's too wide. The string spacing was one of the last things I threw together in this mockup. It's kind of a pain to move all those strings and ferules, but I think going with 2 1/16" like the Modern Fender Strat will make a significant difference. It's amazing how much difference an eighth of an inch makes. Preliminary Specs: 25.5" scale, Strat or Tele compatible pocket (not sure which yet) Walnut top and back, white ash core hollowed out with a support block for the bridge Three P90 pickups. Overkill I'm sure, but I think it looks cool. Nickel hardware Custom made knobs with actual old nickels inlaid on top Recessed Tune-O-Matic bridge (to avoid routing an angle in my neck pocket) Other thoughts: Hoping to do a laminated neck 3 or 5 piece neck, maple being the main wood. Instead of an angled headstock I'll do a stepped down flat headstock, but maybe a little deeper than a typical Fender neck which means using a slightly thicker stock for the neck (also will likely use Gotoh's staggered height tuners). I lean towards the look of an ebony fretboard for this guitar, but have decided to try and challenge myself to use woods native to North America. String through ferules are not definite yet. Kind of like the idea of making my own tailpiece, but not sure what that would look like now. Probably a French Polish/shellac finish. I like the idea of using a natural material. Since I've never done this I'll have to buy a handful of tools for the first time. I'm going to keep track of all my expenses as I go along and I share where I picked everything up. Unfortunately no one supplier carries all the exact supplies I want to use, but I'll plan to make as few orders as possible. I'll leave it at that for now. If I don't collapse from exhaustion in the next few minutes maybe I'll post some other pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 29, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2017 Some other stuff... This thing started as so many things do as sketches on the back of the envelope. The color version is in a travel sketchbook. I felt it was a little too metal looking and widened the waist and made it less pointy. My first set of tools and potential parts! There's this crazy store in the area called American Science and Surplus. You never know what they are going to have in stock. I was hoping to find something funky to make a tailpiece for my build. Not sure I succeed. Not sure if I'll include the jab saw in my expenses as I didn't really pick it up for the purpose of guitar building, but I liked that it holds reciprocating saw blades. $6.95 That weird round thing that looks like an old telephone receiver...an unmilled clarinet bell. Not sure the kind of wood. Bought it thinking just maybe I could slice it up right to make a tailpiece, but the more I look at it the more I have my doubts. $2.95. All the way to the right, a number and letter stamping set/center punch. Now I can stamp a serial number into the body and neck. Totally not necessary, but I'm not sure where my other center punch has gone. $14.95. And that last thing in the back is a 4.7V DC transformer. Not sure I'll use it, but the idea is to (drumroll please...) electroplating nickel onto a custom made tailpiece (as of yet unidentified and created). I've got all the other supplies to do it except for some white vinegar. $1.00. Total spent for all seen $25.85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 29, 2017 Members Share Posted January 29, 2017 Cool. Reminds me a bit of a Reverse Explorer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les Paul Lover Posted January 29, 2017 Members Share Posted January 29, 2017 Very exciting project. I look forward to see how it progresses!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 29, 2017 Members Share Posted January 29, 2017 Good for you, I'll watch this with interest. If there is anything I can do to help please let me know. I highly recommend getting a copy of Melvyn Hiscock's Make Your Own Electric Guitar - he has really good chapters on design (including neck geometry), tools, woods, finish and wiring. Also worthwhile getting a set of plans for a similar neck jointed guitar (in your case a tele or strat) - there are just so many little details that are hard to think about when doing your own design. Most ToM bridges are 2-1/32 or 2-1/16 string spacing and the saddles will be prenotched. The actual spacing at the ferrules (or tailpiece or what every you want to use) can be different - its the saddles that set the spacing. When you lay out your string spacing at the bridge check it at the body joint and make sure your strings are the right distance from the edge of the f/b ToM's are commonly 12 inch radius and there isn't an easy way to change that - remember when you design your f/b. Also if you are going to recess your ToM again lay out the geometry carefully (I would advice getting your bridge and actually measuring it). Most importantly, have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 30, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've owned that book for over 15 years now and have read it through a few times. I'll give it another look though. I started the design/placement based on Telecaster plans I have on hand from TDPRI. If you look carefully at the image you'll see the image of a Telecaster body to scale peaking out behind the smaller body I design. The ToMs I'm looking at now have blank saddles. Is changing the radius any more difficult than notching the saddles deeper as required? I'll definitely be waiting to rout any recesses, pickup routs, tuner holes, etc until I have the necessary parts in hand. And I will definitely be posting some questions as I go along. I've got a couple already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 30, 2017 Members Share Posted January 30, 2017 I dig your design. The nickel capped knobs will ne pretty cool as well. I look forward to seeing your progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 30, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've got to stop spending so much time on these mockups. The good news is that I'm picking up some new Photoshop skills. Print Changes Body is wider at 12 inches Wood is darker Lollar Gold Foil P90 in the bridge and staple P90 in the neck String spacing narrower at bridge (and subsequently ferules) Something funky happened when I posted the dimensions from Illustrator to Photoshop and the body height doesn't line up right. Makes me wonder if I somehow moved the neck pocket or what. Things still to figure out: Wiring schematic. Originally I was going to go with three volume controls thinking that would be fine. It's not. I like the look of three knobs so I think I'm going to do a rotary pickup switch and a master tone and volume. Bonus is that I think I have a rotary switch on hand already. The jack. Not sure where it's going. And to make things more difficult I've decided I want to do this without a rear access panel. That means the assembly has to do be wired up and the jack has to be secured with a nut from the outside and a deep panel jack or upgraded Electrosocket jack doesn't work. I'll share a potential headstock design later. I got right on the computer after work this morning and I'm hungry and tired now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 30, 2017 Members Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've been thinking of your design and have a few random thoughts. You've probably thought of most of them but I'll just list them anyway - A chambered guitar sounds different from a solid body. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. I've built both and have good anecdotal evidence. - An asymetrical guitar sits funny in a stand. Not a big deal unless you like to keep your guitar on a stand - An odd shaped guitar will require an odd shaped case. Standard cases run around a hundred bucks, custom cases about three times that (so why do I keep building odd shaped guitars?). - There is nothing wrong with a little angle to the neck. In fact an awful lot of Fenders have some sort of shim in the pocket meaning they have an angle - Through body stringing may put a lot of break angle at the saddles. I have seen ToM bridges where the strings hit the frame of the bridge and/or the intonation screws. A stop bar is adjustable for height and a trapeze tailpiece is higher off of the top (but usually used on arched tops). Anyway, do you plan view layout carefully. - Your design has a fairly long section of string from the bridge to the ferrules. That may tend to stretch as you do bends and while tuning, and with the high break angle may hang up on the saddles. I suppose that if it turns out to be a problem you could always change to a roller bridge. - Build or buy really good templates for all your routs. Think about how you will attach them. My neck pocket template screws into the p/u area (which hasn't been routed yet), my p/u templates either use the mounting holes for the pup or are clamped to the top. If you are going to clamp them make them big enough that the clamps don't foul the router. - Think about how you will access the insides of your guitar for wiring. You may want to rout some special channels - Build your neck and rout its pocket before you do any thing else. Establish your center line off of the neck rather than trying to set the neck to an arbitrary center line. After the neck is set establish your scale length and then use StewMac's fret calculator to position the bridge (after running the calculator there is a box at the bottom where you pick your bridge and it will compensate it for you - pretty darn slick). - I like laminated necks and would consider using walnut in the center stripe to carry your body theme to the head. You probably won't be able to use a Fender style bent truss rod with a skunk strip - I think there are better rods available. Whatever you do, don't put the adjuster in the heel (one of Leo's really bad ideas). - Do as many of your neck cuts and routs as possible with straight square sides before you start shaping. Its much easier to index your router off a square surface. Making a neck is really fun - enjoy the process. - You asked about changing the radius of a ToM - its probably possible to cut the outside slots deeper or you may be able to find one with 7 or 9 inch radius. I worry that deep notches may bind the strings (combined with your higher break angle) - I really don't know. Forumite WRGKMC has said that he used a ToM with a Fender neck - you might ping him and ask how he did it. A compound radius f/b would be an elegant solution but not for a first time builder. - While not as critical as a set neck guitar, do make sure that you have enough travel in your bridge. Also if you are going to recess the studs make sure the bottom of the bridge doesn't hit the top between them. - FP is a beautiful finish but might not be the best for an electric guitar. Its thin, somewhat soft and easily damaged (and repaired), and is a heck of a lot of work to apply. Not saying don't use it, just consider the options. Also keep all the offcuts of your body wood to practice finish on. Anyway, just a bunch of things that I've come up against and Hiscock covers a lot of them. Good luck, post lots of pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 30, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've thought of quite a few of those, but oddly enough not the one about it not sitting in a stand well...and now it's kind of bugging me. That's a good point about the strings stretching more given the reach shown here. I wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes sense. I'm still kind of hoping I come up with a better idea than ferules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 I've been told by Explorer folks that this is a problem. The metal stands with the articulated bottom holder might work or you could make a nice wooden stand for it. Those stands that hold it strictly by the headstock would work also. Lots of guitars use string thru designs but the holes are usually pretty close to the saddles (like a tele). I think we assume that there is very little stretch to them and that once tuned they don't move on the saddle much. With a trapeze we assume that the strings behind the bridge do stretch and move. However if you try to bring the ferrules too close to the bridge with a ToM the strings will run into either the frame or the intonation screws. There are good drawings of various ToM bridges at StewMac and other websites (including the manufactures). Work with them as you do your design layout. I always like to get the hardware early in the build so I don't have any surprises. (I'll add that I've built with both stop bars and trapeze tailpiece but never what you are doing so all of this is speculation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 Those nickle topped knobs: still possible to "dime" them aka put at 10? Like the design, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 31, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 It's "What Do You Think About This Headstock?" Day! In this scenario I'm imagining a walnut veneer over the headstock which is carved away at one side. If I were designing this headstock from scratch I would probably go with something else, but it's the same shape I used on a kit bass, so I've come to think of it as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 Headstock design looks fine. Do you plan to inlay the walnut? If so I hope you know that routing those sharp little points and getting things to fit is pretty tricky. Leave the left edge (behind the tuners) full thickness until the very end of the rout - you'll want a ledge to support your Dremel base. You'll probably switch bits several times - I really fine burr for the points and a bigger down cut bit to hog out most of the wood. Also, as we've discussed in another thread you will need to bend that curve up to the nut and somehow rout that back to your veneer thickness. From a practical standpoint I would consider laminating both the walnut and maple sections - do it as true marquetry instead of inlay. Remember that you'll need one or two string tees and access to the truss rod adjuster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 31, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 Not an inlay. The maple would be lower than the walnut veneer and I would carve/file that side at an angle to remove the walnut and expose the maple. Going to try to get around string trees with the Gotoh staggered height tuners in addition to starting with a thicker neck blank to achieve a lower than usual headstock plane. If it doesn't work I'll throw trees on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted January 31, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 Here's something just for fun. A rough drawing I did of a design at least eight years ago. I only know that's when the file was uploaded... Definitely drawing from my love of funky 60's guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 31, 2017 Members Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'll wait to see how that works - the idea is good. You've mentioned the deeper head - one of Leo's geniuses was using all dimensional lumber. Doing your laminated neck should get around that - it will just be a little trickier to carve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davidself1001 Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 Very cool design. Good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted February 1, 2017 Members Share Posted February 1, 2017 . . . - An asymetrical guitar sits funny in a stand. Not a big deal unless you like to keep your guitar on a stand . . . True dat. Our church owns a Jazz Bass and it tends to sit a bit wonky in its stand. A really oddly shaped guitar would only be worse. It's "What Do You Think About This Headstock?" Day! In this scenario I'm imagining a walnut veneer over the headstock which is carved away at one side. If I were designing this headstock from scratch I would probably go with something else, but it's the same shape I used on a kit bass, so I've come to think of it as mine. Looks interesting. Unique without going overboard. The two colors of wood look good together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 for someone that thinks outside teh box... continue thinking outside teh box....youre welcome. i use one of these for my ovation breadwinner to banjos... the instrument is suspended from the headstock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 It's nickel day! I'm not exactly sure how I came up with the idea in the first place, but my first thought was that I was going to use some Hobo Nickels for the tops of the knobs. However, these collectible art nickels can get pricey. You can get cheap ones for ten bucks or so, but a halfway respectable one is at least $20, and they go up in to the hundreds from there. That's a lot of money to spend on knobs. So instead I though it would be neat to use old Liberty and Buffalo/Indian nickels. You might get a buffalo nickel in your change every once in a while. Not sure I ever have. And because I'm crazy, I decided they had to be the years 1913 and 1889 because (drumroll please...) they are prime numbers! That made my acquistion of these three nickels a little pricier. All told I paid $17.95 for them. I hope using superglue to affix them to some homemade knobs won't offend any numismatists here. Look at it this way, by "ruining" them and taking them out of circulation I've made your similar coins more rare! I'm $43.80 into this project now (though I might deduct the jab knife as I didn't exactly buy it to build guitars). Let's call it $36.85. In other news, I've been looking at various power tools. Building stuff is a great excuse to buy new tools, but I think I finally talked myself out of needing a table saw. It would be nice for all sorts of applications, but I can get by on this build without it. I think. I could afford a cheap table saw, but if I'm going to get one I don't want to have to replace it when I decide I need to be able to make 3" cuts into hardwood to resaw 6" whatever for bookmatched faces. So maybe that's something I'll get down the road. Big thanks to everyone who has popped in here to say hello or offer suggestions! I'm a little afraid this build will be slower than I would like, but isn't that how it always goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 3, 2017 Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 Keep two different cost lists - one for actual materials and parts - wood, hardware, finish, electronics, and one for tools and overhead. Tools you will reuse - consider them an investment. Each time I build a guitar I think of the tool that would have made the last one easier or that I simply can't live without, then I add that on the next one. I will say you don't need a table saw - I have one and it stay in storage out of the way. The power tools that you need (pretty much in order) are a really good router (a laminate trimmer will do) and an assortment of router bits and templates. For building electrics yo should have a band saw although you can probably get by with a saber saw for one or two. A drill press isn't necessary but its sure handy and if you get one buy the cool tool called a Safe-T-Planer. A hand drill will work but for things like ToM studs and tuners the drill press (Hiscock calls it a "pillar drill"). I use my little 36 inch belt sander a lot for shaping pieces, nuts, etc. I've also got a router table which is killer for truss rods, body edges, things that need to reference a fence. I bought my band saw ($100) and table saw ($50) at a yard sale, my air compressor ($100) from a friend who was upgrading. The reset of them are mostly Ryobi from Home Depot, decent quality but not super expensive. Btw, you can rent tools like a router from Home Depot for one off work but that is one tool that is a must. For inlay a Dremel with a router base and assortment of little burrs. There are several ways to do bindings - that kind of depends on whether your guitar is flat or arched. You will need the normal assortment of hand tools that most people have in a tool box plus some specialized lutherie tools - fret files, nut files, and a variety of measuring tools. A couple of good sharp chisels, a plane or two, various rasps and sanding stuff. Sometimes you can find this stuff at yard sales - old chisels are often the best (I have my grand dads and I love them). Learn how to sharpen them. Hiscock covers the tools pretty well in his book and if you look at some of my build threads you'll get a pretty good idea how a builder on a budget gets things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 3, 2017 Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 I don't want to hijack your thread, but it might be helpful to look at one I did on a chambered slightly arched top guitar with a set neck - its kind of a cross between a LP and a LP Jr. Anyway, you can get a pretty good idea of the tools in my little shop and how I use them http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-41/31277470-lets-build-something-that-looks-kind-of-like-a-les-paul-jr-clip-added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 When all is said and done I'll have a categorized cost list in Excel that can be sorted a few different ways. I used to have a spreadsheet of every movie I'd ever seen. I seek out nickels with prime numbers. I'm a big dork. Tools I already have: Circular saw, bench grinder, hand held drill, jigsaw, semi-fancy Freud plunge router, belt sander, Dremel, and an oscillating spindle sander (which won't get much use with all these straight sides if I stick with the current design). I do plan to get a drill press at the very least, but might try to do without a bandsaw. My grandfather has one I might be able to use or I might try to get by with a combination of jigs for the router and the jigsaw. Almost certainly just going to do simple dot inlays and no binding on this build. If I could get a $100 band saw at a yard sale I would jump on it, but haven't seen much in the way of deals around here yet. And I've got a list of specialty tools I'll be getting from StewMac. I don't have a router table, but I'll put something together that will work for my purposes. Just started going through the LP build thread again. I know I've read it before, but I'll definitely give it another look all the way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2017 Turns out that it's also "Let's Look At Some Wood!" day! The hardwood place is on the way to my sister's house where I was headed to borrow a wagon to use at an employee sale on Sunday*. Left to right: white ash, aromatic red cedar (not a contender), cherry, walnut, maple, and Chinese chestnut. Some things the wood guy told me: Walnut will darken a little with clear coat, but over time lightens. Cherry darkens over time (I was surprised how light it was). They did not have shellac flakes or nitrocellulose, but do carry a water based finish I might try. So I may try a few finishes on a few woods before I decide. My original thought was that I would do no stains...but I might. I remembered that years ago I put together a walnut body bass kit and I did tint the grain filler and it was still lighter than I thought it would be. Not a great picture, but the only one I can find right now: Guy at the hardwood dealer was super helpful. He said I could bring in a parts list and he would mill everything down to my specs. So I'll definitely let him bookmatch the top and back. May or may not have him cut some parts for the neck. While I'm talking about necks, check this out... Stolen from Mayones Guitars. It's an eleven piece neck. Crazy. I won't do anything quite like that, but I have been intrigued by these super thin black and sometimes white lines sometimes seen in laminated necks. How do that do that? Is there any chance it is with something like the Fiber Veneer Sheets from LMII? I guess I could e-mail the folks at LMII to find out. *[i work for this company that makes adhesives (like tape, double sided tape, removable notes) and abrasives (polishing compounds, sandpaper, sanding blocks) and other things. You might have heard of it. It rhymes with Bee Gem. For $17 I can fill a plastic tote two inches above the top with whatever they have available. I can probably fit a retail value of $100+ in sandpaper alone, but I usually mix it up and get some sponges for the kitchen sink, too.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.