Members u6crash Posted February 14, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 14, 2017 New Parts Day! The parts have started to roll into my mailbox and it's pretty exciting! Went on a bit of a buying spree towards the end last week. Only ordered stuff that was cheaper with shipping than I could get it before shipping with StewMac or LMI. Also ordered my first incorrect part. So I have my braided wire, staggered tuners, 0.033uF caps, 0.047uF caps, long shaft 500k pots, 0.001uF cap, and Electrosocket. Some are extras and for testing. Can you guess what part is wrong? It's not the Electrosocket (thankfully it fits the threads on the Switchcraft jacks I have). It's the long shaft pots. They are too long. I knew I was putting these through wood, so a short shaft wasn't going to work because if my wood top is 0.25" thick versus a much thinner pickguard mount, it probably isn't going to work. However, if I'm going tor a body that is 1.75" thick and has a 0.25" top and back, that only leaves me with 1.25". So I'll have to get some short shaft jacks and see if I can make something work (maybe recessing the underside of the top a bit) or adjust my plans a bit. And this all got me thinking that maybe before I start cutting into good wood, I should make a top and back out of MDF (which will get used for a template anyway) and put some filler between them to see if I have a comfortable body shape. On to other things... I don't know if I'll bother with that headstock cutout and/or bursting the headstock (that seems rather difficult). However, one thing I thought would be super cool would be to add some maple binding with black purfling around the fretboard. I know I'm already getting some of the black fiber sheets from LMI for the laminated neck and I thought this would be a cool touch that would hide the fret ends on the neck. Unfortunately I have little idea how to do it well, especially when it comes to matching up the ends at the fretboard overhang. Maybe it's not something I try on a first build. Other revelations... Down with string ferrules! I'm going to go ahead and use a stop tailpiece. However (there's always a "however") I'm going to machine the brass and plate it myself. In that same vein, I'm going to cut the pickguard from copper, etch it, and then plate that, too. That way my nickel color theme stays consistent, I have some cool "not off the shelf" parts, and I don't have to cross my fingers that the pearl gray pickguard will match the nickel color how I want (it seems unlikely). Parts/Tools still to arrive: 5-way 2 pole rotary switch, 9.5" radius sanding block, 8-piece nut slotting set. Trying to decide which fret crowning/leveling tools are most essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 14, 2017 Members Share Posted February 14, 2017 You probably knew I would comment - if your control cavity is deep enough you can just adjust the back up nut and washer for the length of your pot shafts. Otherwise drill a recess on the inside with a Forstner bit before you drill thru the wood for the shaft. - if you want to bind the f/b I can show you how. - fretting tools - a small hammer or a pressing caul (or both), a way to radius the wire, 6 and 10 inch mill bastard files, a crowning file for your crowns (or a "safe" triangular file and some skill), a couple of jewelers files for the ends, 18 or 24 inch flat bar or carpenter's level, abrasives from 300 to 2000, a fret rocker. Glue of your choice if you decide to use it, finish for your maple f/b. I have an old drafters eraser shield that I use to protect the board when filing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 16, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2017 You probably knew I would comment - if you want to bind the f/b I can show you how. That would be awesome. I've looked at a few pictures online and I feel a little less daunted by it now. It's "Look, Wood!" Day! Wood cost me more than I expected. I wrote down the dimensions of everything I needed: Birdseye maple for the fretboard and neck, hard maple for the body core, walnut for the stringers and walnut for the top and back. The hardwood store I got it from has their price list online and everything is price out and board feet. So when I did my initial calculations it looked like I would be right at $60 or so. Didn't get off so lucky. So everything is priced by the board foot, but certain boards can't be cut to the inch, and everything else he cuts to the foot. So instead of getting one 27" piece of birdseye for the neck and another one at 20" for the fretboard, I ended up buying a $45 eight foot length. Somewhat similarly on the walnut (as I expected) I bought three feet instead of 27", and I knew I would have a ton left over. Not shown is the wood for the walnut top. It's still at their shop getting bookmatched. I was going to spring for figured walnut, but it got pricey so it's a pretty good looking piece of regular walnut. It will get resawn and thickness sanded. All told the wood was $183, plus another $40 for the millwork. That's the bad news. The good news is that I probably have enough wood to do the body and neck for this guitar, a walnut cap for another guitar, and necks for one or two more guitars (if one of those necks is mostly walnut). --- I work nights so I'm up way past my bedtime today. Also picked up a sheet of MDF for templates and hardware for the fret bender. Should have picked up some Titebond while I was at the store, but just wasn't on my mind since I'm not gluing anything just yet. Hopefully this weekend I can put together the last of my orders for supplies and materials. I'm sure I'll still miss stuff. Also ordered my fret wire and and fretting hammer; a little annoying that StewMac doesn't carry the size of wire I wanted. Ordered enough fretwire to do two more guitars if I don't screw any up. It would probably be prudent to practice a bit. Seems like I had some questions, but I'm tired and hungry and losing focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 16, 2017 Members Share Posted February 16, 2017 That would be awesome. I've looked at a few pictures online and I feel a little less daunted by it now. OK, there are two parts to it. First is actually binding the f/b - basically the step are as follows - cut the fret slots - you may radius the board now or later - cut the side taper from the nut to the body joint EXACTLY what you want minus the width of your binding and any purfling - put a piece of waxed paper on your workbench and clamp some sort of straight board to the bench. Put the f/b against it and clamp another straight board to the other side - you want them tight against the sides and couple of inches longer. I also add a clamp or two to pull the two side boards in against the f/b - do the following steps dry a couple of times so you get the feel for it. Put one binding and purfling against one of the boards, put the f/b against it and tap the end with a hammer and block of wood to drive it gently into the Vee. That will apply your clamping pressure. You'll want a tiny bit of binding hanging over both ends. - now put some glue on the binding and purfling and slide it into the Vee. Tap it gently from the end, tap the binding itself down so its tight against the waxed paper and clamp the f/b down. - it is important to not get glue in the slots (scrape them now with an Xacto knife) and it is also very important that the bottom of the binding be level with the bottom of the f/b. It doesn't hurt if the top of the binding stands proud. - do the other side the same way - miter the end at the 22nd fret and fit a piece of binding there - radius the board and/or plane the binding level with the top of the board - install your markers If you want a thin purfling line on the bottom of the binding I would suggest buying it already glued on (LMI) Part 2, now the binding is on, when its time to fret the board the steps are - radius the wire - clean the slots really well - cut the fretwire slightly over length and file away the tang to exactly the wide of the each fret slot. This is a different guitar than above but its still a rosewood bound rosewood f/b I made a simple holder for the fretwire - it has a 0.025 slot and I filed a little half round channel in part of my workbench. I mark the width of slot on the wire, put it in the holder with the edge right at my mark and clamp it to the bench. File the tang away using the holder as a guide Keep all the frets in order since each one is slightly longer than the last one. I just drilled 22 holes in a block of wood and numbered them. This is a partial refret on an acoustic Hammer and/or press them as usual, but give the ends a tiny additional tap which kind of curves them down. I use 3 drops of CA - one in the center and one under each end. When you dress the ends give a slight downward action to your file - you don't want to lift the ends Radius the ends, level, crown and polish as usual. I like bound fretboards but I do charge more to refret them because of all the extra fiddling. FWIW, there is another kind of bound fretboards the way Gibson did it once with little plastic nibs at the ends of the frets. We won't go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 17, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2017 I like bound fretboards but I do charge more to refret them because of all the extra fiddling. FWIW, there is another kind of bound fretboards the way Gibson did it once with little plastic nibs at the ends of the frets. We won't go there. Oh, I've read all about that. I can't imagine ever doing that unless I got in the habit of making authentic repairs. All good stuff, thanks so much! Is there any chance of the CA spreading out from under the frets and if so is it noticeable? Since I'm going with a maple board and it will get finished I'm not too worried about it, but thought I better ask. Might get to cutting some templates out today. Unfortunately I got scheduled to work Saturday, so it depends on how many other errands I get done around the house. Another question, I'm cutting my templates (and probably some jigs) from MDF. Is there anything I can do to the sides of the MDF to keep it from fraying/deteriorating in the long run? I thought about brushing a thin coat of poly on it, but now I worry that would cause it to swell. Also thought about some sort of tape, but that will add to the thickness of the template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 17, 2017 Members Share Posted February 17, 2017 Oh, I've read all about that. I can't imagine ever doing that unless I got in the habit of making authentic repairs. All good stuff, thanks so much! Is there any chance of the CA spreading out from under the frets and if so is it noticeable? Since I'm going with a maple board and it will get finished I'm not too worried about it, but thought I better ask. Might get to cutting some templates out today. Unfortunately I got scheduled to work Saturday, so it depends on how many other errands I get done around the house. Another question, I'm cutting my templates (and probably some jigs) from MDF. Is there anything I can do to the sides of the MDF to keep it from fraying/deteriorating in the long run? I thought about brushing a thin coat of poly on it, but now I worry that would cause it to swell. Also thought about some sort of tape, but that will add to the thickness of the template. I have a vintage Gibson with the plastic nibs that needs a refret and the owner wants to keep the nibs I've told him that I don't want to do it - he should find someone with more experience and be prepared to pay for it. I can't answer the CA question for maple - I've only done rosewood and ebony boards and they aren't finished. With an unfinished board you can scrape the CA back to the fret and its not noticeable. CA is frequently wicked into the fret ends on unbound boards to fill the gap. It is also used to set the inlay and marker dots in the board. I have used CA for binding on maple guitars and it will soak into the wood, slightly discoloring it. It might discolor your board, I don't know. Other builders use HHG or possibly Titebond or none at all (Dan Erlewine discusses all of this in his book on guitar repair). As far as templates - I use MDF for quickie or one of a kind templates - headstock or body shape or cavities. Anything that I think I'll use very often is either birch plywood or lexan (pickup cavities, neck profiles, things like that). And if its really critical (like tuners jigs) I machine it out of metal. I used to work in a company with a large machine shop - I could design things on the CADD and have our laser cut them out. One of the things I miss about being retired LOL, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 17, 2017 Members Share Posted February 17, 2017 While we are talking about fretting, here is a recent thread on OLF. http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49007 Note that most people are using some kind of glue. And while I hammer frets on necks where the f/b is already glued on like the refret in my earlier post, when I am building a new guitar I like to fret the board before I glue it to the neck. In that case I press the frets in, tap the ends with a hammer and then clamp them while the CA kicks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted February 17, 2017 Members Share Posted February 17, 2017 I'm a hack, but when I did my only maple refret/refinish I fretted before finishing and there are some tiny witness lines where the CA soaked into the wood. The finish did make them hard to see, so not major. Titebond from now on for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 18, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 Well, I was pretty disgusted yesterday. I'd hoped to pickup a router bit and make a flat gluing surface on my maple board for the core and, you know, be building a guitar already. As the maple is about 1.1875" thick, I require a router bit that is over 1", all of which (at least available locally) use a 1/2" shank. Of course I can't get a 1/2" collet for my router locally and would have to order one. So I'm trying to figure out how I can get this done before then. I should have paid the guy at the hardwood store to run it through their jointer. Can I use a shorter 1" bit and do it in two passes at different (but overlapping) heights? This doesn't seem like a great idea. The other possibility I have considered is making large sanding stick that is both longer and wider than the length of wood I have to face. I figured I'd have to set this up in some manner to prevent me from twisting/tilting while sanding. Anyway, I picked up another bar clamp, some original Titebond, and a couple pieces to finish my fret wire bender. Jumping way ahead, Freeman what are your thoughts on building in neck relief? I know on so there is a gap of about 0.025" - 0.030" between the 8th fret and a straightedge laid on the frets. I know others will remove additional material from the fretboard itself around frets 3-8. Maybe I don't have to worry about it so much since I'm using a double action rod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 18, 2017 Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 Can I use a shorter 1" bit and do it in two passes at different (but overlapping) heights? This doesn't seem like a great idea. I do that all the time - many of my bits are only a half inch deep. I'll make a number of passes lowering the bit a little bit (no pun) each time. In fact often my templates are only 1/4' or so thick, the follower bearing will ride on the template for the first pass, then gradually will move to the side of the cavity as I go deeper. You can use a little piece of 1/4 inch plastic tubing on the shaft between the cutter and the bearing to change the depth of the cut or you can put it above the bearing to lower the bit in the collet. I also believe that its good idea to drill or cut away as much waste as possible before going in with the router. And I've learned to take my router outside whenever I can - that puppy throws sawdust everywhere. Here is routing the shape of a LP - there is a MDF template on top and I'm making the first cut off of it. After that I'll move down and reference off of the cut I just made. Notice what seems to be a little ledge of wood at the very top - that is the gap between the follower bearing and the cutter - I can knock that off with a piece of sandpaper before moving the bit down. Jumping way ahead, Freeman what are your thoughts on building in neck relief? I know on so there is a gap of about 0.025" - 0.030" between the 8th fret and a straightedge laid on the frets. I know others will remove additional material from the fretboard itself around frets 3-8. Maybe I don't have to worry about it so much since I'm using a double action rod? The only time I have planed any relief into a neck was on a classical (nylon string) acoustic. It is traditional on that kind of guitar since they only have 100 or less pounds of tension on a pretty fat neck. Everything else I have built has been dead flat - neck and both top and bottom of the f/b, and I set the truss rod neutral when I glue the f/b on. If you fret the board before gluing it on it will take on a pretty good back bow - that is actually used when refretting old acoustics to remove relief (call compression fretting). Clamping the board on should remove the back bow but there probably still is a little stress introduced into the neck. Once I've glued the f/b on I check that its still flat (I don't use a notched straight edge because I do so many different scale lengths). One advantage to fretting after the f/b is glued on is that you can perfectly flatten the board. Since I usually fret it first I just use the truss rod to make it flat before dressing the frets. My experience has been that when strung up an electric will get somewhere around 5 to 10 thousands of relief, an acoustic might get 10 to 15. Those are acceptable starting points for doing the final setup - I've always been able to get what I need with the truss rod. I know Erlewine uses a bunch of different jigs to try to simulate playing position and all - I've never found it necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 18, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 I do that all the time - many of my bits are only a half inch deep. I'll make a number of passes lowering the bit a little bit (no pun) each time. In fact often my templates are only 1/4' or so thick, the follower bearing will ride on the template for the first pass, then gradually will move to the side of the cavity as I go deeper. You can use a little piece of 1/4 inch plastic tubing on the shaft between the cutter and the bearing to change the depth of the cut or you can put it above the bearing to lower the bit in the collet. That is encouraging! I just woke up and I'll really need to get more sleep later, but it is a rare 64 degree February day in DeKalb, IL (and me without a motorcycle) and I am more than ready to make some sawdust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 18, 2017 Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 Remember that routers are powerful dangerous nasty machines that don't care if they are cutting wood or flesh. Wear protection, make climbing cuts, go slowly. Have fun Here is the trick of putting tubing on the shank of the bit - if you don't do that and you clamp the collet higher on the bit the ball bearing can ride up and off your template. You'll only do that once, I can promise and after that you'll use the tubing http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Routing_and_Templates/Using_Ball-bearing_Cutter_Bits_for_Guitar_Routing.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 18, 2017 Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 Another thought about routers and templates - think about how you are going to attach the template while you route. Double stick carpet tape does work but I don't trust it - I try to put a couple of Quick clamps on to back it up. I might have to move the clamps to keep the router from bumping into them. If possible make the template large enough that you can clamp it and the work piece all to your work bench. The best solution is to run a couple of flat head wood screw thru the template into some part of the workpiece that will be routed or drilled later. For example, on your plate don't drill the tuner holes until after you've routed the shape and put a couple of screws where the tuners will go. My neck templates screw into the pickup cavities, my pickup templates use the locations of the p/u mounting screws. I just did a headstock where the tuner holes were drilled - I wish I had done it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 18, 2017 Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 And put as many reference lines, dimensions, etc as possible on your templates. Certainly a center line and some other point to measure to - scale length or neck joint or nut or whatever - just a reference and something to know you are square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 18, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 I haven't figured out all of the template attachments yet, but planed to use places like control cavities, etc., to attach with screws when possible. In addition to a centerline I plan to put a couple holes through the centerline so that I can see through the template and make sure my centerlines line up throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 18, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2017 It's "Let's make some sawdust!" day! Feels good to actually be doing some building. Crazy warm February day here in Northern Illinois. Anyway, here's what's up: Ran the router over the edge of the maple for the core a few times. I probably removed better than 1/8" from the side because the side wasn't nearly as straight as I thought it would be having only been rough sawn from the mill. Also learned that I can't just use a piece of MDF from the store to use as a routing guide. I suspected as much, but tried anyway. Fortunately I had a straight edge from an old drafting table that I used to plane the MDF perfectly flat. I didn't want to use the straight edge to route the maple as it wasn't very thick. I ended up using a router bit with a top bearing on it, so a sacrificial piece of wood was under the maple when I clamped it down. Here's a dry fit of the clamps. So glad I took a little time to do this. If I hadn't I would have found as I was gluing it up that the 2x3s had to lay on their sides in order to fit under my smaller clamps and I only had one side lined with tape (so it doesn't get glued to the work piece) during the test fit. Here is the whole thing glued up. Yeah, probably used too much glue, but I suppose that's better than not a lot. And it seems to have squeezed out of the body more or less evenly. I'm a little nervous about it. A few snafus along the way, but nothing that I shouldn't be able to clean up. The maple isn't perfectly flat, but it will get planed later on. One very little piece of tearout, but in a spot that is of no consequence (and it will probably get planed off). In hindsight I wish I'd purchased some C-clamps to use instead of those quick clamps for the cauls. The cauls aren't the most important part, but it was apparent that they don't exert nearly the same pressure as the bar clamps or a C-clamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 23, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2017 Sorry, not much in the way of updates. I'm at a bit of an impasse as I haven't ordered some tools/supplies yet. I'll order more shortly. I'm not in a big hurry right now because I just got scheduled to work Saturday and Sunday this coming weekend. So here's a snapshot at the currents costs. Tools has been my biggest expenditure, most of which are reusable. Also, I've purchased quite a few extra parts. Seven of the nine pots I've bought won't be used for this build, but I want to A/B the values before I commit to randomly using certain pots and caps. Seems people are pretty divided on what should be paired with P90s. [One thing I didn't understand until recently is that the "P90s" in Jazzmasters and most other Fender models are not P90s at all (True P90s are single coils wrapped around steel polepieces with bar magnets underneath, whereas a Jazzmaster pickkup is wrapped around magnetic polepieces like a standard single coil).] You'll also note I bought five (yes, five) truss rods. I got mine from Bitterroot Guitars and for $33 I could get five that were the same dimensions as StewMacs low profile rod for $11. I already know I can't stop at just this build. I also bought two bone nut blanks, extra fretwire, and should have enough wood leftover for at least one additional neck. Both Bitterroot Guitars and Philladelpiha Luthier Supply offer free shipping in the US if your order is large enough. The worst shipping was from Jescar and if I'd been smarter I would have ordered all the stuff I got from them from PLS. Oddly enough neither Stewmac nor LMI carry walnut veneer. I'll be sure to post my sources when it's all said and done too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted February 27, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2017 Well, it still doesn't look like a guitar just yet. Other obligations, etc. New tools and parts! Carbon fiber rods might be overkill, but I don't think their inclusion will hurt anything. Extra pots, one extra nut, fret caul (which may or may not get used), 300 grit two sided fret crowning file, fret hammer, fret wire, side position dot/rod. Today I picked up my bookmatched walnut. Here it is wiped down to kind of show the wood popping. 36" T-Square for reference. I should be able to get two tops and a back out of this, maybe more. Happened to catch a live video from Kiesel Guitars this week where they were showing some burl poplar tops. This stuff had holes in it. I think when they finished it they filled the holes with a black epoxy. Just kind of makes me wonder if I can do something similar with those knots at the end. Didn't plan on using them, but I won't toss them. There's also some pretty beefy cutoffs that I can probably use in a second or third neck down the line. Fascinating picture of metal. Two 1/4" aluminum plates for a fretwire bender. Not sure why I need two. Maybe I'll build a second one and throw it on eBay. The brass is 3/4" x 1/2" and came in a 12" length. I've cut it into three mostly equal pieces. I'll machine one of these down for the tailpiece on this guitar and the other two will be for a future project. Been dragging my feet on buying a drill press. Had my eye on a particular model and the price went up. Might get a less expensive one. I'm not a guy that needs to have the best stuff, but I hate buying cheap stuff that breaks. Progress depends on how much overtime I'm scheduled for this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 28, 2017 Members Share Posted February 28, 2017 I have an inexpensive 10 table mount drill press that is adequate but I'd really like something better. The throat is not deep enough to drill all the holes on a string thru Fender style bridge and the quill is pretty marginal for using it to press frets (I've considered buying an arbor press but haven't done it yet). One of the really cool uses of a drill press is with a Safe-T-Plane for light duty planing and thicknessing - having micro adjustment on the table would be helpful for that. When you buy a drill press along with normal twist bits get a good set of brad point bits and a set of Forstner bits up to at least 1". You may also end up with some special Forstner bits in sizes that you need (they are expensive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted March 5, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2017 Had hoped to have more progress to show here. Got scheduled to work Saturday so that didn't help. Also, ended up getting a dog this weekend because I have so much time and money on my hands. [/sarcasm] Did receive my shipment of goods from LMI and StewMac this week. I'm a little surprised how little of my stuff I ended up getting from them. I'm a frugal kind of guy and love to find a deal and most the other places I got stuff from had the same items cheaper with free shipping on large enough orders. So here's a Shinto saw rasp for shaping the neck, a 0.4mm scraper, StewMac fret slotting template, string spacing template, Safe-T Planer, and sheets of veneer for my accent stripes. I'm glad I ordered extra veneer because I think I'm going to end up using the thicker 0.6mm veneer for the neck when I expected to use the thinner stuff. I also got 0.3mm veneer and the 0.25mm black fiber veneer which seems more of a dark gray. Took the full size drawing outside to make a template. I haven't ruined it yet, but it's not going how I would like it to go. With all these straight sides I think I could benefit from a belt sander and I have a line on a used one for $40 as well as a used table saw for the same price. Ordered the drill press I wanted. Found it on sale at Sears and coupled it with a coupon I Googled and free shipping and got it for less than it was before the price went up last week. It's a value-minded 12" model, but the distinguishing feature for me is that it has a 5/8" chuck. That will come in handy when I want to do some light vertical milling with a 0.625" endmill. Running costs so far... Parts: $188.48 Supplies: $236.31 Tools: $608.21 Tax/Shipping: $50.81 TOTAL: $1,083.81 With tools making up more than half of the cost so far, I think guitar #2 won't be too far behind this one. If I wanted to get plenty of sleep before work tonight I'd be in bed in the next 60 minutes. That probably won't happen, but I think I'm too tired to keep playing with power tools for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted March 5, 2017 Members Share Posted March 5, 2017 Had hoped to have more progress to show here. Got scheduled to work Saturday so that didn't help. Also, ended up getting a dog this weekend because I have so much time and money on my hands. [/sarcasm] . . . Happy New Dog Day. That's a cutie. (Then again, I'm a dog lover anyway.) Keep us posted on your build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted March 12, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2017 Kind of disgusted with my lack of progress, but I haven't quite ruined anything yet. Templates for the neck and body are cut out of 1/2" MDF. The neck is a little oversize by design. The body template has a couple of flaws I need to fix. First it has a bit too much material removed from the waist on the upper left and I haven't decided how to patch that yet. Do I want to get out fiberglass and make a mess with that? Do I want to just put a little fast drying spackle in there and cover it with some tape? I'm open to suggestions. The other part on the body template (which you can't really see here) is that the sides of the neck pocket are not quite how I want them. I'm not sure what tool I should use to smooth them out and get a good surface perpendicular to the face. Where I have been having difficulty is planing the sides of the top pieces with the router. Tried a couple different clamping methods and edge guides, and I've messed it up in a variety of ways. Thankfully I still have enough stock to get my top and back from it. Been debating making a makeshift router table and I might just go and buy an actual router table tomorrow. Then I can feed the pieces into the offset fence and be done with it and have another good tool around the garage. Oh, and I've got a table saw now. $40 from Varagesale. The blade is not square, so that's something to tackle still. Might even go out and mess with it tonight despite the cold. Fires up like a beast and sounds good. After I true up the blade I'll make a zero clearance insert for it. So..yeah. I really thought I'd have my top and back glued up as well as wood cut for the laminate neck. Alas, here I am. Worked this Saturday for however many straight Saturdays it's been. Some other things I still have to do on this build: Figure out what grain filler, stain, and finish I'm going to use. I'd like to use a black grain filler to really make whatever grain it has pop and I think I might like to use some sort of dark brown stain on it. I'm told plain walnut will lighten over time and if anything I'd like it darker. Not sure if I'll buy a spray gun or just use a Preval unit or cans for this. I would have other uses for a spray gun though... The bridge. I had a checklist of parts and somehow I overlooked the bridge. I think the day I was going to buy it I was having trouble choosing between two and then never got one. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 12, 2017 Members Share Posted March 12, 2017 Templates for the neck and body are cut out of 1/2" MDF. The neck is a little oversize by design. The body template has a couple of flaws I need to fix. First it has a bit too much material removed from the waist on the upper left and I haven't decided how to patch that yet. Do I want to get out fiberglass and make a mess with that? Do I want to just put a little fast drying spackle in there and cover it with some tape? I'm open to suggestions. MDF is cheap. Use your template to make another template that fixes the problems Where I have been having difficulty is planing the sides of the top pieces with the router. Tried a couple different clamping methods and edge guides, and I've messed it up in a variety of ways. Thankfully I still have enough stock to get my top and back from it. Been debating making a makeshift router table and I might just go and buy an actual router table tomorrow. Then I can feed the pieces into the offset fence and be done with it and have another good tool around the garage. Are you talking about the center seam? I thought you had that run thru the jointer at your wood yard. If not and you really wanted to practice your skills you would make a shooting board and use a very sharp plane, but I would just clamp a very straight piece of metal to it and run your route with a follower bit along it. A router table really doesn't do that very well (its darn nice for the truss rod slot, however) [quote=u6crash;n31938537 Oh, and I've got a table saw now. I've got a piece of junk table saw sort of like that (paid 150 at a yard sale for it and a band saw, use the band saw all the time, don't use the table saw at all). Figure out what grain filler, stain, and finish I'm going to use. I'd like to use a black grain filler to really make whatever grain it has pop and I think I might like to use some sort of dark brown stain on it. I'm told plain walnut will lighten over time and if anything I'd like it darker. Not sure if I'll buy a spray gun or just use a Preval unit or cans for this. I would have other uses for a spray gun though... Lots of options for finish, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. Really depends on exactly what your expectations and abilities are. As they say, save your scraps and practice on them. The bridge. I had a checklist of parts and somehow I overlooked the bridge. I think the day I was going to buy it I was having trouble choosing between two and then never got one. Oops. I think I recommended having your bridge when you did your side layout of the neck. The most important dimension on the whole guitar is neck angle and overstand relative to the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted March 12, 2017 Members Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 - MDF is cheap. Use your template to make another template that fixes the problems. For the neck pocket I make a separate template that screws into the top. I also use that template to help shape the neck heel (if it fits in my template it will fit in the neck) 2 - Are you talking about the center seam of the top? The traditional way is to make a shooting board and sharpen up a big plane, the easy way is to clamp a straight piece of flat bar to the pieces and just run your router with a follower bit. Put sand paper on a carpenters level with sticky tape and sand the seam (hold it up to the light to make sure its true) A router table is not the right tool for this job (but its really nice for the truss rod channel) 3 - I bought a piece of junk table saw (that looks a lot like yours) along with a band saw for $150 at a yard sale. I use the band saw all the time, don't use the table saw for lutherie. Handy for ripping big sheets of MDF into small sheets of MDF.. Table saw is one option for cutting fret slots, but I would want a really good one for that. Make a little miter box instead 4 - Lots of options for finish, each has advantages and disadvantages. As they say, save your scraps and practice on them. 5 - I thought I recommended getting your bridge and actually using it to do the side layout of your neck geometry. That is the single most important dimension on your guitar - neck angle, overstand and bridge height. Particularly when you are mixing types of necks and bridges that aren't normally used together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted March 12, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 - MDF is cheap. Use your template to make another template that fixes the problems. For the neck pocket I make a separate template that screws into the top. I also use that template to help shape the neck heel (if it fits in my template it will fit in the neck) Yeah, I think I may get some more MDF and make a new template. Definitely plan to have a second one for the neck template as well. 2 - Are you talking about the center seam of the top? The traditional way is to make a shooting board and sharpen up a big plane, the easy way is to clamp a straight piece of flat bar to the pieces and just run your router with a follower bit. Put sand paper on a carpenters level with sticky tape and sand the seam (hold it up to the light to make sure its true) A router table is not the right tool for this job (but its really nice for the truss rod channel) I don't have a big plane and I've found that I'm lousy at using the one I have. I tried to clamp a straight edge to it rout it, but with the router bit I have (with the bearing on top) I find I keep tipping the router at the very end where it is briefly not supported. I could try chucking my other two pieces in at the end for support, but I'm not sure how to clamp everything in place correctly or something. [EDIT: Figured it out. On my way to fix it.] I've read quite a few tutorials on using a makeshift router fence (or actual) as a jointer for thin stock. Can you tell me why this is a bad idea? I also briefly thought about using a table to rout the truss rod cavity. Is the method to predrill a hole (or series of holes) and turn the neck blank upside down on top of the bit? While I'm asking about this step, would you recommend a rounded bit since the truss rod itself is rounded on the bottom? It seems that StewMac just sells a flat bottom bit to rout their truss rods. 3 - I bought a piece of junk table saw (that looks a lot like yours) along with a band saw for $150 at a yard sale. I use the band saw all the time, don't use the table saw for lutherie. Handy for ripping big sheets of MDF into small sheets of MDF.. Table saw is one option for cutting fret slots, but I would want a really good one for that. Make a little miter box instead Going to make a mitre box for the frets. Maybe I should be looking for a used band saw to rip the strips for my laminated neck. Figured for $40 I couldn't go too wrong. 4 - Lots of options for finish, each has advantages and disadvantages. As they say, save your scraps and practice on them. I'm leaning towards either a nitro or waterbased product. I'm kind of interested in General's Endur-Var waterbased urethane. Since it also acts as a grain filler, I might have to dye the top black and sand it back to get the look I'm going for. Will probably spend a little extra on different kinds for experimenting. 5 - I thought I recommended getting your bridge and actually using it to do the side layout of your neck geometry. That is the single most important dimension on your guitar - neck angle, overstand and bridge height. Particularly when you are mixing types of necks and bridges that aren't normally used together. Yeah. You did. I was all set to order it and I'm not sure what happened. When I did the preliminary side layout I had all the necessary dimensions from the manufacturer and knew I may have to make adjustments further when I had it in hand. I won't be routing the neck pocket until I have the bridge here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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