Members onelife Posted August 10, 2015 Members Share Posted August 10, 2015 An interesting Ted Talk on the building material affecting the sound of an electric guitar by Paul Reed Smith. [video=youtube;sNzJjlV1TOA] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted August 10, 2015 Members Share Posted August 10, 2015 Interesting, thanks for posting. I agree with the subtractive concept. But in 15 mins he didnt actually say much really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted August 11, 2015 Members Share Posted August 11, 2015 He made a joke about "dropping his nuts on the floor", but it was a good demonstration and something I've done in the past (on the counter) to determine the degree of vibration or sound transfer. The reason for me doing this was because there were venders selling precut "graphite" nuts on Ebay that turned out to be more like cheap plastic. I became a big proponent of changing nuts out after I'd read a scientific study which posited that fretted notes as well as open notes are effected by nut material. Since then I've replaced nuts on expensive as well as cheap guitars and been exceedingly pleased with the results (particularly after I discovered graph tech nuts). Surprisingly, the nut material used on my 90's vintage Fenders (even the 89 American) were cheap plastic, and the improvement was dramatic IMO. Changed out the lubritrac tefflon nut on my US Hamers to tusq on one, graphite on the other - again a big tonal improvement. Never felt like the Corian nut used on my Gibson needed changing as the tone and sustain were good to begin with. With those thinking about doing this, max sustain on the tusq, but it does brighten your tone more than bone corian or graphite. Also a revelation, a respected builder talking about the benefits of good tonewood, I.,e., wood that is free of excess water (dried properly) and resin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted August 11, 2015 Members Share Posted August 11, 2015 He blows on hard about tone and then picks up the guitar and plays ...and it sounds like crap. idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2015 Leo Fender wasn't really a player either. I think the idea, as a builder, is to provide the artist with an instrument that will not impede his/her ability to express themselves. I've heard great players sounding great on PRS as well as Fender guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 I like him. Heck of a business man , but dude still knows how to let his hair down and have some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 One small bit of obfuscation when he described plastic nuts as being made of PVC. They're typically made of celluloid, which is made from cotton fibers dissolved in nitric acid, or polystyrene, both of which are completely different stuff from PVC. Either he made a mistake or he's full of it. Granted, it's a small thing but it bothers me a bit because it suggests there's more pseudoscience to be found if you know where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 My question for PRS would be: What if the flaws of a guitar are what made that particular guitar sound good? According to him, better materials make for better sound, and I agree, but sometimes it's the flaws that make something different enough and appealing. To me, the best looking woman is one that physically goes against society's idea of beauty. A movie can have one actor that does a good job while the rest of the film suffers, but that actor keeps me coming back. A video game doesn't have to be the most graphically advanced; it only has to have something quirky and different about it to make me play. My mother's cooking isn't the best, but I love when she makes chili because it's a recipe I grew up eating. My Epiphone Les Paul Custom probably has "muddy" pickups and the wood isn't as expensive as the Gibson Custom, but it sounds so sweet and represents the sound in my head. And while the PRS acoustic sounds very resonant and looks good, would I feel as comfortable playing it as a beater? Would it inspire me as much as the Amada Made-in-Romania acoustic I started with? It might be the perfect acoustic guitar, but what makes it stand out? I have searched for the ideal acoustic for years, and none of them appealed to me for very long. I mean, I owned and played Gibsons long before my Epiphones, yet the Epis appeal more to me. In essence, if my fingers are Barbra Streisand, then why do the mid-level microphones sound best to me? Why does the nerdy girl look more beautiful than the beauty-school-drop-out to me? Why do I like Jack Nicholson better than Heath Ledger? No matter how much money you spend, it all comes down to personal taste. I'm not necessarily trying to make a point but rather raise interesting questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 My question for PRS would be: What if the flaws of a guitar are what made that particular guitar sound good? According to him' date=' better materials make for better sound, and I agree, but sometimes it's the flaws that make something different enough and appealing...[/quote'] You bring up a good point. The last of the Silverface Fender amps had Ultralinear circuitry to remove the flaws (distortion) and are the least desirable of the old Fender tube amps. No matter how much money you spend' date=' it all comes down to personal taste. I'm not necessarily trying to make a point but rather raise interesting questions.[/quote'] There are no square corners in Nature. The human experience is how we deal with the imperfections life throws at us. That hit song that changed your life may have been inspired by a cheap guitar that had an unusual resonance at 136 Hz and sounded "too boomy" to the perfectionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 One small bit of obfuscation when he described plastic nuts as being made of PVC. They're typically made of celluloid' date=' which is made from cotton fibers dissolved in nitric acid, or polystyrene, both of which are completely different stuff from PVC. Either he made a mistake or he's full of it. Granted, it's a small thing but it bothers me a bit because it suggests there's more pseudoscience to be found if you know where to look.[/quote'] Depends on what industry you're in and what its used for. The Canon gear my company sells is loaded with Nylon Nuts< Screws, C clips Gears etc. PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) is just a base element that's a powder. Its made into many other products using plasticizers. It can be made into harder materials like pipes or into softer materials like wire insulation. They do make PVC pipes which are very hard and screw together. I don't see where making smaller nuts and screws would be an issue. Not sure how durable they'd be but it all depends on the other chemicals added to bind it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 . . . The Canon gear my company sells is loaded with Nylon Nuts< Screws, C clips Gears etc. PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) is just a base element that's a powder. Its made into many other products using plasticizers. . . . They do make PVC pipes which are very hard and screw together. I don't see where making smaller nuts and screws would be an issue. . . . No, PVC, celluloid, polystyrene, and nylon are all chemically different. Besides, we're not talking about nuts as in nuts and bolts, we're talking about guitar nuts, which are not made of PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 Nuts and bolts? Frigging unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted August 12, 2015 Members Share Posted August 12, 2015 Nuts and bolts? Frigging unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Into Nation Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 You bring up a good point. The last of the Silverface Fender amps had Ultralinear circuitry to remove the flaws (distortion) and are the least desirable of the old Fender tube amps. There are no square corners in Nature. The human experience is how we deal with the imperfections life throws at us. That hit song that changed your life may have been inspired by a cheap guitar that had an unusual resonance at 136 Hz and sounded "too boomy" to the perfectionist. To be taken with a grain of .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sammyreynolds01 Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 He blows on hard about tone and then picks up the guitar and plays ...and it sounds like crap. idk Most great guitar builders either can't play or are very minimalist when it comes to playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 13, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be taken with a grain of .... Touché Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 No, PVC, celluloid, polystyrene, and nylon are all chemically different. Besides, we're not talking about nuts as in nuts and bolts, we're talking about guitar nuts, which are not made of PVC. In the Video he spoke about how soft nuts can ruin the instruments tones. PVC was commonly used as guitar nuts so he was correct. Don't know how many nuts you've changed during your time, I've done hundreds working at music stores. Replacing the soft PVC nuts was extremely common, in fact I'd change them out on cheap guitars more then any other. They didn't just snap like a hard plastic nut would bend and come apart in chunks. You don't see these often now but they used to be very common on cheap imports. They simply took leftover pick guard material which is also made of PVC to make them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickguard Nut Materials http://www.philtone.com/nuts.html Many materials have been used for nuts thru the years: bone of many animals, hardwoods such as ebony, ivory, nylon 6/4, phenolics, corian, PVC, various plastics (I.E. Fender’s Cyclovac, describe as “bone” in color), various formulations of graphite, “Soapstone” (DuPont Delrin) brass and aluminum. Plastics are cheap, can be injection molded preslotted as a labor saving device, but can be soft and outer strings can break off corners. PVC is particularly soft and often seen on the cheapest guitars. While very strong along intended grain alignment, graphite composites can be soft as a string bisects it, placing force in a narrow area, and can have a dull, dampened tone – Delrin exhibits similar qualities. Corian, a mainstay of Gibson since at least the 1990s, varies in hardness. Brass was popular in the 1970s; it can bind steel strings sometimes. Danelectro used aluminum, an interesting material, but can be soft in the string slots as well. Ivory, unless fossilized, is not only generally illegal, but also on the soft side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 . . . Don't know how many nuts you've changed during your time' date=' I've done hundreds working at music stores. . . .[/quote'] More than you'd think and probably almost as many as you have, given your tendency to inflate your resumé and cover your inability to hold a job. In 45 years of playing and working on guitars, I've never seen a nut that was made of PVC. I've seen one nut that appeared to be made of nylon, a few that were bone or TUSQ, but the majority were polystyrene or celluloid. The guy in the vid is setting up a straw man, claiming that "those other guys" are making their nuts out of PVC when they're not. Cheap nuts are rare on decent guitars and he knows it. So do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordite Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 To be taken with a grain of .... Strange to relate I was reading a physics book which said that crystals form because below a certain set of temperature/ pressure conditions the probability that a molecule can be anywhere in a fluid collapses. and the probabilities reach a kind of 'ground state' locking it into a crystal order. ( Still trying to get my head around that interpretation. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted August 13, 2015 Members Share Posted August 13, 2015 Interesting' date=' thanks for posting. I agree with the subtractive concept. But in 15 mins he didnt actually say much really.[/quote'] Welcome to TED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted August 15, 2015 Members Share Posted August 15, 2015 I like the subractive concept and agree with that. I've always said my best guitar "blooms" when you play it. Like nothing is being held back. It "projects" the notes and so on and so on..... So saying it's "not taking anything away from what you put in" is essentially the same thing......or same feeling i guess. All my guitars are judged on their ability to do that and some are better than others which is why I feel I can "rank" my guitars and guitars I play in stores. Now that doesn't mean I don't love the guitars that aren't as good as my "best" guitar. My "best" guitar is a strat and it does what it does better than any other strat I've ever played. But it's not a Les Paul and never will be. My Les Pauls are great guitars too, but they aren't on the comparative level that my strat is. In other words....I bet I could find a better Les Paul than what I have. So in PRS's terms my Les Pauls are "more subtractive" than my strat. And that's true. I'm not a PRS expert...only played a few....but from what I've read online, many think the greatest PRS guitars ever made were the ones in the first couple of years when they were thin nitro finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordite Posted August 15, 2015 Members Share Posted August 15, 2015 I don't actually want a decaying sine wave!A guitar's 'tone' is generated by mechanical subtractive synthesis, attenuating harmonics and creating a complex and dynamic wave shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 One small bit of obfuscation when he described plastic nuts as being made of PVC. They're typically made of celluloid' date=' which is made from cotton fibers dissolved in nitric acid, or polystyrene, both of which are completely different stuff from PVC. Either he made a mistake or he's full of it. Granted, it's a small thing but it bothers me a bit because it suggests there's more pseudoscience to be found if you know where to look.[/quote'] No, PVC, celluloid, polystyrene, and nylon are all chemically different. Besides, we're not talking about nuts as in nuts and bolts, we're talking about guitar nuts, which are not made of PVC. So what is it that Epiphone is describing on this page about their SG? [TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD] Nut [/TD] [TD] black imitation bone (PVC) [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] http://www.epiphone.com/Products/SG/G-400-PRO.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 HCEG: Where You're the Only Good Guitarist and Everyone Else is Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 17, 2015 Members Share Posted August 17, 2015 So what is it that Epiphone is describing on this page about their SG? [TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD] Nut [/TD] [TD] black imitation bone (PVC) [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] http://www.epiphone.com/Products/SG/G-400-PRO.aspx I stand corrected. A black "imitation bone" nut made of PVC. Who woulda thunk it? However, I stand by my "straw man" comment. Nobody is going to compare a PRS to an Epiphone, and guitars in PRS' league don't have PVC nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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