OT: A political thread for those on the other side of the pond...

[Phil O'Keefe]

OK lads, I hear that this is a rather interesting and unusual election in the UK this time around, what with three significant contenders for PM. I even caught one of the debates on the telly last week. Even though I know very little about politics in the UK, I thought it was rather interesting.

 

Anyway, I had a request to let you guys have a discussion thread to talk about it. The election's tomorrow, right? Possibly a big historical deal?

 

Anyway, you've got your thread for the next few days. Show us Yanks that the Brits can be proper and polite. If you're not, you'll have a Yank in here playing Bobby, and that just won't do... so do keep it civil please.

[joeyowen]

good idea

 

i for one am not voting because i believe they are 3 out and out liars so why should i vote for any of them?

it would be an idea to vote to reduce minority, ie one more vote for labour means parties like the bnp need another to get anywhere

 

hung parliament could be biiiiiiiig trouble

 

they are my current thoughts

[melx]

I'm voting lib-dem because my seat is always close between lib-dem and tory.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Poll Tax, no minimum wage (with jobs for a pound an hour in the job centre) The miners strikes, my milk taken away from me at school, forced to work on a YTS 40 hours a week for

[joeyowen]

.... and that mr joey owen is why you should vote for anyone (anyone except the {censored}ing conservatives)

 

.... and that mr joey owen is why you should vote for anyone (anyone except the {censored}ing labour)

 

.... and that mr joey owen is why you should vote for anyone (anyone except the {censored}ing conservatives)

 

.... and that mr joey owen is why you should vote for anyone (anyone except the {censored}ing libdem)

 

.... and that mr joey owen is why you should vote for anyone (anyone except the {censored}ing bnp)

 

this is what i face

[joeyowen]

annnndddddd just to add, lib dems military views scare me, really scare me.

 

we will become world target number one if he does what he wants

[joncyberboy]

I'm voting green. A wasted vote technically but if you don't vote for what you believe i don't see the point.

[Mr. Sarum]

 

I want to see what will happen here.

[THAT4301]

 

annnndddddd just to add, lib dems military views scare me, really scare me. we will become world target number one if he does what he wants

 

 

Bull{censored}. Most of europe don't have nuclear weapons, they're no deterrent at all since america would jump at the chance to nuke Iran or NK, and nobody has any reason to nuke us anyway.

 

They're a relic of a time when we had such an overrated sense of self importance that we thought anybody would even care enough to fire nukes at us, and now the cold war is over, there isn't even a country in the world with the ability to fire a nuclear weapon at us that we're not allied with to some capacity.

 

They're a huge drain on the military resources and if we didn't have to waste money on them then maybe our troops could have been better equipped when they went into Afgahnistan.

 

Plus we would've had twice as many since we wouldn't have been involved in Iraq under the lib dems.

 

 

I'm voting lib dem for proportional representation, although I agree with far more of their policies than anybody elses. Freedom act I like, repeal of DEB i like, evidence based drug policy I like a lot and that will also help to reduce crime. I don't think Brown has any real right to campaign at all, since he's had 4 years to do the things he's promising and failed miserably; he should have stepped down for this election and let milliband fight it.

[joeyowen]

 

now the cold war is over

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6981541.stm

 

food for thought.

 

edit: that is quite old, but there has been more since i believe

 

its not that we need the nukes as such, its the sign that it gives off

im not one for violence im really not, but its a tough world and some people would love the chance to have a go

[melx]

Joey, why are you even worrying about stuff like that? .. focus on issues that will effect you on a day to day basis. Stuff that will happen, not stuff that might happen if.... most people are thinking about cuts winter fuel allowances or if they are going to have a job in 6 months or how they are going to pay the bills when we are all taxed more... you must have such an easy life if all you have to worry about is scare talk from governments trying to up their position in the world.

[Taylor704]

I think the election this time round is really interesting. In 2005 I was too young to care about politics but now i've gotten to know the democratic system I feel much more strongly about the country.

 

The prospect of a Tory government scares me and I wasn't even alive to witness first hand any of the things Thatcher did to this country but it sounds horrible for the people that suffered the most. The entire philosophy of which her ideology was built around is one that puzzles and confuses me.

 

If I could vote, it'd be Lib Dem purely on the basis that some change needs to come to Britain, and not in the form of David Cameron. They have the most sensible plans for this country and IMO are the most realistic. Saying that, our electoral system is hugely biased against not only the current government but any party that isn't Labour or Conservative.

 

Yeah, should be good

[Mind_Riot89]

Lib Dems got my (postal) vote although it was a tough call between them and Labour. I did three separate blind policy tests and my views mostly correlated with Green and Lib Dem. I can't stand any of the leaders to be perfectly honest and the debates did little to sway my opinion. I approve of dropping tuition fees though, that's for sure.

[AnderMocs]

 

annnndddddd just to add, lib dems military views scare me, really scare me. we will become world target number one if he does what he wants

 

 

{censored} you. That is our title. Your ninny little british asses ain't taking that away from us.

 

Seriously, don't worry. America is going to be target number one for a loooonnggg time.

[comrade_jon]

I think the election this time round is really interesting. In 2005 I was too young to care about politics but now i've gotten to know the democratic system I feel much more strongly about the country. The prospect of a Tory government scares me and I wasn't even alive to witness first hand any of the things Thatcher did to this country but it sounds horrible for the people that suffered the most. The entire philosophy of which her ideology was built around is one that puzzles and confuses me. If I could vote, it'd be Lib Dem purely on the basis that some change needs to come to Britain, and not in the form of David Cameron. They have the most sensible plans for this country and IMO are the most realistic. Saying that, our electoral system is hugely biased against not only the current government but any party that isn't Labour or Conservative. Yeah, should be good

 

To think I sheparded this boy into caring about politics, and this is how he pays me back, Lib Dems tch.

 

Since I've first been interested in politics, as a general person of the left Lib Dems policies have always been better in my view than New Labour. But some things scare me - they have a PR (proportional representation)-at-all-costs view that belittles their arguments. Clegg himself said he would work with the Tories, and today I got a leaflet where my Tory PPC has quoted the Lib Dem PPC of giving unofficial support to Tories against Labour.

 

There are many things wrong with Labour. But in terms of our economy, safeguarding and what not, you have to vote red - or at least anti-blue. If Clegg really holds his beliefs dear, then of course it would be a fine result to have Lib Dems win, but it's not going to happen and given their desperation to claim something after 60+ years of wilderness, they're not ready.

 

This is however very much the election to lose. Tory victory would allow better satire, better abuse for Conservatives and more of the 80s comaraderie between the left which I wish I was I had been alive for.

 

PR is going to result in our government hurt and our economy hurt the same. I may be a roaring socialist in ideology, in practice I understand the world we live in and the fact is Labour are the best for it. If you give away your vote in a Labour seat to the Lib Dems, you are voting Tory - and I think melx has explained all that is required to know why they are wrong.

 

Don't waste your vote people, look at where your vote should go and unite against the Conservatives.

[Mind_Riot89]

Well, my vote went to the North Cotswolds, possibly the most Conservative area of all. There is no chance whatsoever of that changing any time soon.

[joeyowen]

{censored} you. That is our title. Your ninny little british asses ain't taking that away from us. Seriously, don't worry. America is going to be target number one for a loooonnggg time.

 

and ahahahaha, that made me laugh

[HeartfeltDawn]

 

To think I sheparded this boy into caring about politics, and this is how he pays me back, Lib Dems tch. Since I've first been interested in politics, as a general person of the left Lib Dems policies have always been better in my view than New Labour. But some things scare me - they have a PR (proportional representation)-at-all-costs view that belittles their arguments. Clegg himself said he would work with the Tories, and today I got a leaflet where my Tory PPC has quoted the Lib Dem PPC of giving unofficial support to Tories against Labour. There are many things wrong with Labour. But in terms of our economy, safeguarding and what not, you have to vote red - or at least anti-blue. If Clegg really holds his beliefs dear, then of course it would be a fine result to have Lib Dems win, but it's not going to happen and given their desperation to claim something after 60+ years of wilderness, they're not ready. This is however very much the election to lose. Tory victory would allow better satire, better abuse for Conservatives and more of the 80s comaraderie between the left which I wish I was I had been alive for. PR is going to result in our government hurt and our economy hurt the same. I may be a roaring socialist in ideology, in practice I understand the world we live in and the fact is Labour are the best for it. If you give away your vote in a Labour seat to the Lib Dems, you are voting Tory - and I think melx has explained all that is required to know why they are wrong. Don't waste your vote people, look at where your vote should go and unite against the Conservatives.

 

 

 

If the Conservatives get back in, it will be because Labour shat all over their own principles and shat all over this country.

 

Labour can whine about Lord Ashcroft all they want but the reality is that Brown as Chancellor and as Prime Minister did nothing to address the non-dom tax issue, and is just as guilty as the other two parties of accepting money from people wanting to influence the party. Lords in Belize or trade unions, there is no difference to me. Tell me where during this campaign that any of the parties have mentioned a financial cap on the amount they can spend.

 

Labour did nothing to regulate the banking industry, instead choosing to give the bastards more power. It's not hard to see why when you have Blair being paid millions each year working with JPMorgan Chase.

 

Labour did nothing when it came to responsible spending, instead choosing to hide so much expenditure under the carpet in the form of PFI schemes that land organisations like NHS Trusts in tremendous debt over the long term.

 

Labour did nothing to address the immigration issue. Their own estimates as to the scale of EU immigration when the gates were was laughably poor.

 

Labour have done nothing to increase the education sector, instead choosing to saddle students with enormous fees, and treating professional teachers like idiots.

 

I'm a socialist man with fairly conservative financial principles. The testimony Melx gives is one many who remember the Thatcher years could give. The one thing I hold in Thatcher's favour is that she was upfront about who she was going to {censored} over. Even something as divisive as the Poll tax, she clung onto that until the bitter end. When it came to Argentina, she went and did what she said she would do. We never had that with Labour. Labour brought a whole new era of subterfuge to politics. Promises of greater transparency were met with more and more items being hidden away from FOI requests, and gave forth the rise of the spin doctor to new levels of influence. Instead of Thatcher's blunt destruction, Labour chiselled away, changing things under the noses of the electorate who remained blind for so long. Finally something broke, in this case the financial markets, and everything poured out. Expenses, financial deals, the debt the country had been placed in, the lies the accounting procedures told, the level of absolute dishonesty around Iraq...

 

There is no tactical vote in this election. No party deserves to win outright. David Cameron now is as useless as John Kerry was in 2004 in the USA. He is an impotent shiny headed man trying to give off the illusion of statehood when his party has no heavy hitters at the front of it (his Shadow Chancellor being an absolute puddle). Not even Murdoch believes in Cameron. Brown presides over a financially {censored}ed country that is barely better off than Greece, that is still fighting a war with no clear objective, he's prepared to sell off more of the family silver, and still Cameron can't nail the {censored}er, just as Kerry failed to nail Bush in '04. When someone on the right fails to nail a supposed leftie, then you know something is badly wrong in the Tory camp and that the stage is being set up perfectly for PM Boris in 2014.

 

Instead, this is an election where you state what you believe. If you believe in the BNP, damn well vote for them. If you believe in the Liberal Democrats, as I will do here in Bath as Don Foster is a good politician, put it right down. If we end up in a hung parliament, then the parties will have a choice. They can either continue to act on behalf of their own interests/lobbyist interests/donor interests, or they can agree to work together for the good of this country. We need an era of non-partisan politics, no different to the coalition that sprang up during WWII, where the country is the priority. I will vote Lib Dem and hope that they stick to Clegg's words. I know they will be unlikely to get in but Clegg has brought them to a point of greater media prominence. As a leader, he is marketable to the electorate. The Clegg-Cable team will have a lot more work to do in the future.

 

Labour do not deserve to return to power.

 

The Conservatives do not deserve the chance to return to power.

[HeartfeltDawn]

 

Since I've first been interested in politics, as a general person of the left Lib Dems policies have always been better in my view than New Labour. But some things scare me - they have a PR (proportional representation)-at-all-costs view that belittles their arguments. Clegg himself said he would work with the Tories, and today I got a leaflet where my Tory PPC has quoted the Lib Dem PPC of giving unofficial support to Tories against Labour.

 

 

We need the parties to work together. How the {censored} can a Prime Minister govern and try to introduce social policies that call for greater integration of minority groups within society when the House of Commons resembles a schoolyard brawl most of the time? One of the reasons politics grew tiresome for many people, and even a Parliament Channel watching {censored}wit like me, was because of the gross level of partisan bull{censored} on offer.

[woolyh]

I'm supporting Labour, the thought of Cameron jet setting around the world representing Britain makes me shudder and I'd rather anyone but the Conservatives in power, I could vote tactically as I live in Tory central and the Lib Dems are the only ones with a chance of beating them but voting for a party you don't believe just completely misses the point.

 

The Liberals are just getting support because they're the only other serious contender and alternative to the Tories but I think alot of people who are thinking of voting for them would change their minds if they read about their policies.

 

I'm hating the way this election is being played out in the media

[HeartfeltDawn]

 

I'm supporting Labour, the thought of Cameron jet setting around the world representing Britain makes me shudder and I'd rather anyone but the Conservatives in power, I could vote tactically as I live in Tory central and the Lib Dems are the only ones with a chance of beating them but voting for a party you don't believe just completely misses the point.

 

 

So what makes you believe in Labour then? I've never voted for Labour in the three elections I've previously be eligible to vote in. Lib Dem each time.

 

Another question: if Labour won, would you want Brown to stand down?

[RadioSilence]

 

Well, my vote went to the North Cotswolds, possibly the most Conservative area of all. There is no chance whatsoever of that changing any time soon.

 

 

i'm the opposite, my constituency is possibly the safest Labour seat there is. we're the only english constituency to have never had a Conservative MP. David Miliband was parachuted in here just before the 2001 election when our old MP was given a lordship in exchange for retiring.

 

it really doesn't matter who i vote for, labour is going to win here so i'm voting Lib Dem to support them in the popular vote. they won't win this general election but their profile's been boosted with the televised debates and if they get a good percentage of the popular vote they'll be in a much better position for next time.

i don't agree with every policy of theirs but i'm so disillusioned with Labour and i'd never vote Tory (because i remember them in power last time, and i'm not a {censored}).

 

also, i really like my Lib Dem candidate. he's a councillor in newcastle and seems a really solid guy.

[HeartfeltDawn]

 

i don't agree with every policy of theirs but i'm so disillusioned with Labour and i'd never vote Tory (because i remember them in power last time, and i'm not a {censored}).

 

 

A snap Sun/YouGov poll of 1,100 people says:

 

43% - you're not a {censored}

32% - you are a {censored}

24% - not bothered about whether you're a {censored} or not a {censored}

1% - want to know if you're ethnically pure

[RadioSilence]

OK lads, I hear that this is a rather interesting and unusual election in the UK this time around, what with three significant contenders for PM. I even caught one of the debates on the telly last week. Even though I know very little about politics in the UK, I thought it was rather interesting. Anyway, I had a request to let you guys have a discussion thread to talk about it. The election's tomorrow, right? Possibly a big historical deal? Anyway, you've got your thread for the next few days. Show us Yanks that the Brits can be proper and polite. If you're not, you'll have a Yank in here playing Bobby, and that just won't do... so do keep it civil please.

thursday, we'll find out the results early hours of friday morning.

 

yep, will be historical. it looks like the Conservatives (they were in power from '79 to '97 under margaret thatcher then john major) might get back in - if you want to know why that's a bad idea look on wikipedia for miners' strike, apartheid, Bobby Sands, Greenham Common, Section 28, poll tax.

 

Labour have swung pretty far from their old principles, and even what they represented in '97 - but they're still miles less evil than the tories.

[Phil O'Keefe]

{censored} you. That is our title. Your ninny little british asses ain't taking that away from us. Seriously, don't worry. America is going to be target number one for a loooonnggg time.

 

I should have know it would be an American in with the first FU! - even if it was (I think) intended sarcastically.

 

 

Civility please folks...

[RadioSilence]

 

A snap Sun/YouGov poll of 1,100 people says: 43% - you're not a {censored} 32% - you are a {censored} 24% - not bothered about whether you're a {censored} or not a {censored} 1% - want to know if you're ethnically pure

 

 

i'm about 1/32nd welsh, will the BNP deport me for that?