What will Roland's new synth be? Speculate here..

[Bernard]

 

I haven't read every post in this thread, but has anyone talked about the irony of a 'stage' or 'performance' synth that is focussed on natural sounds like drums? And upright bass? I have been in some really awkward situations playing at church, where the only option was to play drums off a GM drum patch. That served it's purpose, but is that really what roland has in mind? Keyboard players filling in for drummer and bass players, and brass, and... you get the point. I can see a bunch of physical modeling stuff in a workstation, where you are writing a demo song or something but ... performance drums from a keyboard? Someone explain.

 

 

We all suspect that Jupiter-80 does not have drums...

[carbon111]

Wow. The hype and bull{censored} jargon behind this thing is dreadful. So, it's a performance rompler dressed in "the emperor's clothes"...but folks will probably beat a path to Roland's door, regardless.

 

Sad commentary on the state of the industry, really.

[Bernard]

Wow. The hype and bull{censored} jargon behind this thing is dreadful. So, it's a performance rompler dressed in "the emperor's clothes"...but folks will probably beat a path to Roland's door, regardless. Sad commentary on the state of the industry, really.

 

It seems Roland use names for a reason (Juno = Baby Jupiter = Topend). Owners of old synths associate the names with the technology of the past and the quality of that sound and are then offended when Roland use the name again in the digital domain...

 

Its unfortunate... but it is what it is...

 

By the way it's all modelled on all sounds, but yes they will probably use samples in ROM for that modeling

[Thorhead]

It seems Roland use names for a reason (Juno = Baby Jupiter = Topend). Owners of old synths associate the names with the technology of the past and the quality of that sound and are then offended when Roland use the name again in the digital domain... Its unfortunate... but it is what it is... By the way it's all modelled on all sounds, but yes they will probably use samples in ROM for that modeling

 

What... there are no real violins inside the synth?

 

I really hope you mean the modeling only uses samples and isn't actually based on them... cause that would be just....

 

And what? There is not even the JP8000 engine inside? Lame samples instead? =(

 

Let's hope roland doesn't disappoint this time, otherwise it's back to filling this:

 

[zoink]

 

I would like the SH201/JP8000 in a beefed up synth covered in nobs and sliders

 

 

That's what I would have expected in a Jupiter successor. Give me knobs and sliders any day of the week.

 

This is sounding more and more like a realism-oriented rompler (again, I'll compare it in spirit to the D50), and less like a programmable and tweakable flagship VA, which is after all the real legacy of the Jupiter name.

 

I'm sorry, but leave it to Roland to co-opt THEIR OWN IDEA and sell it out. Meanwhile -- irony of all ironies -- it is OTHER companies that have over the years reproduced Roland's legendary 80s offerings with a measure of respectful authenticity (Jomox, XOXBox, Rebirth, Arturia Jupiter 8V, etc.).

[Bernard]

 

What... there are no real violins inside the synth? I really hope you mean the modeling only uses samples and isn't actually based on them... cause that would be just.... And what? There is not even the JP8000 engine inside? Lame samples instead? =(

 

 

As I understand it, some modelling does not need any samples and some of the models will use snippets of samples and process then in a model to allow the sound to become more flexible for performance and patch settings. Look at Roland stuff on SuperNatural and ARX to understand it better...

 

The acid test will be how it actually sounds. I get the impression the ARX cards (1st gen) did not do too well for some who preferred static sample particularly on ''drums'' (which it seems the Jupiter-80 does not do)

[Citizen Klaus]

 

This is sounding more and more like a realism-oriented rompler (again, I'll compare it in spirit to the D50), and less like a programmable and tweakable flagship VA, which is after all the real legacy of the Jupiter name.

 

 

I think part of the issue is that Roland seems to interpret their legacy in a manner different from that of their customers. For them, the name "Jupiter" seems to signify a concept -- taking innovative new technology and packaging it in a relatively affordable, easy to use product. For the customers, "Jupiter" signifies two particular products that emerged amidst a particular historical and industrial context -- and thus, any new product bearing the name should incorporate the specific characteristics of those "original" Jupiters. From one perspective, the Jupiter-80 is a perfect heir to the name; from the other, it's a usurper.

[Bernard]

 

This is sounding more and more like a realism-oriented rompler

 

 

realism oriented modeling/rompler ;-)

 

That's the point, to Roland ''Jupiter'' just means best of a kind...

 

It is not a flagship VA but it will do a nice set of sounds if it has, as it is suggested, the full GAIA engine (more than one of them as it is available split or layered by the looks)

 

I really want Roland to bring out a hot VA focused synth. They might call that a Jupiter-?? too. I would love to have all the super saw control that is in the V-Synth (lacking in the SH201 and very different in the SH01). For my ear the SH01 was more of a priority and the SH201 too basic for the sounds its aimed at..

[Bernard]

For now their flagship VA is the V-Synth...

[Thorhead]

 

realism oriented modeling/rompler ;-) That's the point, to Roland ''Jupiter'' just means best of a kind... It is not a flagship VA but it will do a nice set of sounds if it has, as it is suggested, the full GAIA engine (more than one of them as it is available split or layered by the looks) I really want Roland to bring out a hot VA focused synth. They might call that a Jupiter-?? too. I would love to have all the super saw control that is in the V-Synth (lacking in the SH201 and very different in the SH01). For my ear the SH01 was more of a priority and the SH201 too basic for the sounds its aimed at..

 

 

You can get the supersaw control by simply stacking 7 saws, relative level, detune, LFO pitch mod... all should be there. I agree though, why can't they just use engine they already own. Roland just is NEVER going to give their best, instead better have many products and rip off =/.

[Bernard]

 

You can get the supersaw control by simply stacking 7 saws, relative level, detune, LFO pitch mod... all should be there. I agree though, why can't they just use engine they already own. Roland just is NEVER going to give their best, instead better have many products and rip off =/.

 

 

I suspect its to do with chips and code. The SH01 GAIA is probably based on the modern architecture of Roland's latest modeling.

 

The SH201 etc probably have older ASIC's which are easier to do custom things like super saw, where as the modern way may burn more code as the cpu is just generic... just me speculating so ignore me... LOL

[zoink]

 

realism oriented modeling/rompler ;-) That's the point, to Roland ''Jupiter'' just means best of a kind... It is not a flagship VA but it will do a nice set of sounds if it has, as it is suggested, the full GAIA engine (more than one of them as it is available split or layered by the looks).

 

 

 

I think you're right. And I'll even wager that the Jupiter 80 will sound good, for what it is. But after the JP-8080, which was a good next step for 1997, I had higher hopes for where it might lead in 2011.

 

There's a part of me that has been hoping for decades that Roland would eventually release a flagship VA (i.e. lots of sliders and knobs), with some favorite workstation amenities thrown in for good measure (higher polyphony and multi-timbrality, multi-track sequencer, audio track recorder, maybe sample mangling a la V-Synth, etc.).

 

But you're right. Jupiter -- JP-8080 be damned -- is apparently no longer a moniker for hands-on, bottom-up synthesis. Naming a performance-oriented rompler a "Jupiter" just rings strange to my ears. I honestly don't know if a GAIA engine will be good enough to consider it a Jupiter successor. I'll sit down and give it a good listen, and judge from there. But I still think the "new Corvette" shouldn't have four doors, bench seats, and a luggage rack on the roof. It just doesn't fit.

 

If Waldorf came out with a "Q2" and it was a rom-based "performance keyboard", I'd be similarly skeptical. And my skepticism would come from the fact that Waldorf (like Roland) had already achieved so much with the Q (or Jupiter 8) that it set the bar quite high.

[Bernard]

 

I think you're right. And I'll even wager that the Jupiter 80 will sound good, for what it is. But after the JP-8080, which was a good next step for 1997, I had higher hopes for where it might lead in 2011. There's a part of me that has been hoping for decades that Roland would eventually release a flagship VA (i.e. lots of sliders and knobs), with some favorite workstation amenities thrown in for good measure (higher polyphony and multi-timbrality, multi-track sequencer, audio track recorder, maybe sample mangling a la V-Synth, etc.). But you're right. Jupiter -- JP-8080 be damned -- is apparently no longer a moniker for hands-on, bottom-up synthesis. Naming a performance-oriented rompler a "Jupiter" just rings strange to my ears. I honestly don't know if a GAIA engine will be good enough to consider it a Jupiter successor. I'll sit down and give it a good listen, and judge from there. But I still think the "new Corvette" shouldn't have four doors, bench seats, and a luggage rack on the roof. It just doesn't fit. If Waldorf came out with a "Q2" and it was a rom-based "performance keyboard", I'd be similarly skeptical. And my skepticism would come from the fact that Waldorf (like Roland) had already achieved so much with the Q (or Jupiter 8) that it set the bar quite high.

 

 

 

I will say it again, agree with everyone re a proper knobby successor to the real VA's and as some of us would also love Roland getting back into RA's ! Could that be why they are not doing traditional VA's do they have an RA coming... Oh I can dream... LOL

 

I am still stunned how even after the Juno's going digital that the Roland naming is still, even when explained, unacceptable.. I guess it's an emotional attachment thing.. They need to bring out a stress doll of the Roland boss, it would sell well me thinks .. LOL

[Bernard]

 

I would not mind a Gaia on steroids...

 

 

Your wish may have come true, kindof .. LOL

[Bernard]

Gear sluts have not removed anything and this was just posted over there...

 

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[Metrosonus]

I think we all just need to come to terms with the unfortunate truth that we just won't see a workhorse VA again in the vein of the jp8000, MS2000 etc. I think they were one offs probing the market after Calvia's success. The ones we will get (and have been getting) are going to be cheap, portable and basically disposable instruments. At least korg is keeping it interesting so far..

 

So now were getting rompler workstations with VAs thrown in instead of the old ROMpler style VA synthesis. That's great for the larger more public markets like composers and worship markets.. not for people like us. Maybe you guys will, I can't and won't fork over that much for one of those machines.

[Bernard]

 

I think we all just need to come to terms with the unfortunate truth that we just won't see a workhorse VA again in the vein of the jp8000, MS2000 etc. I think they were one offs probing the market after Calvia's success. The ones we will get (and have been getting) are going to be cheap, portable and basically disposable instruments. At least korg is keeping it interesting so far.. So now were getting rompler workstations with VAs thrown in instead of the old ROMpler style VA synthesis. That's great for the larger more public markets like composers and worship markets.. not for people like us. Maybe you guys will, I can't and won't fork over that much for one of those machines.

 

 

The VA's you mentioned were followed up so were not one off's. I think we will see more VA's. The MAK is a goody engine wise (not IF) for example.

 

The Jupiter-80 is not a work station. We do not know the full specs of each model so lets not get hasty and keep in mind the bulk of flexibility of the Fantom engine was for non acoustic synth stuff. The Focus of the new synth is live/acoustic/electronic so I suspect the models will suit that and with the GAIA engine its quite a nice synth for someone that need 76 keys and quick splits etc...

[Metrosonus]

roland AFAIK hasn't had a follow up that wasn't based on the jp8000. you can count the radias, but I wouldn't personally call it a success.

 

Im just saying, i'm not holding my breath. I know i'm not the target audience anymore. people playing gigs that want sounds to play progressive rock covers, piano players, composers, places of worship etc are. They have money to spend because it's a tool necessary to their income. you may get a slice of what you want in a new synth, but how much are you going to be paying for that you don't need?

 

It's just something to consider.

[Bernard]

 

roland AFAIK hasn't had a follow up that wasn't based on the jp8000. you can count the radias, but I wouldn't personally call it a success. Im just saying, i'm not holding my breath. I know i'm not the target audience anymore. people playing gigs that want sounds to play progressive rock covers, piano players, composers, places of worship etc are. They have money to spend because it's a tool necessary to their income. you may get a slice of what you want in a new synth, but how much are you going to be paying for that you don't need? It's just something to consider.

 

 

Not assuming it sounds any good yet, but the blog in trouble above suggested the teaser was the Jupiter-80 so I would say good and I know the GAIA is good fun.

 

I get the feeling a lot of negative comments are from people who think it was going to be analog. Some wanted a new Fantom, others a response to the KRONOS. Me I wanted a knobby megasynth.

 

Forgetting all that and the name and just looking at what's on offer, people should judge it by their personal need and it's sound/usability. Not sure why people get so hung up. Roland will make more VA's and if Korg do well with RA stuff, they may follow one day. It's all ebb and flow.

 

I have a place set aside for a 61 key or larger synth. I considered the SV-1 and many other types of synth. I don't need a workstation as the MV covers that. Although I love VA's, I have enough now (MAK, GAIA, MV BASS) and using the MV for other sounds, it has some, is painful compared to a proper large keyboard, even some of the usable GAIA GM sounds need the MV hooked up to get to them. I never thought I would enjoy playing piano, but I have and I want more than the small keyboards so it is just easier to get a larger board. Not a priority but a nice to have...

[Metrosonus]

Me I wanted a knobby megasynth

 

I"m with you on that one, but I was also just saying it's hard to hedge your bets on something when the market is skewed away from hardcore synth people. It is ebb and flow and I hope korg can set a president for delivering cost effective and fun devices that the others will follow.

 

I personally don't see what the big to do is over physical modeling. It's supposed to be more lifelike than multisamples? I also tend to think one or two people will go to town on selecting string and bow types mixed with room ambiances and either male or female fingers.. but most people will stick with the presets like they always have.

 

Im going to stick with saying that it'd be nice if it was an update based on the d50 or jd800.. although I wouldn't personally expect more than either a kronos competitor or some sort of "lite" Vsynth or something spinoff. Who knows.. I guess all the fun is in waiting.

[liliththekitten]

hmmm... not sure if want

[Don Solaris]

 

Find a Roland employee.

[Quru]

I want something that makes used Fantoms go down on price. It's time for my good ol' Motif to retire.

[johnmoorejohn]

Another issue I had with the Gaia, when I held down a note and hit the detune on an osc, you don't hear the detune, you have to replay the note before you hear the change. Maybe I was doing something wrong but, WTF?

[Thorhead]

Find a Roland employee.

 

Bernard is a roland employee?

Nah, he usually bumps up all the new gear threads...

 

I pick K2500x, clever disguise name.

 

 

Well, the countdown is coming to a close. DAY after tomorrow, is the day of reckoning.

 

There are many other brands there that may surprise us nord, alesis, waldorf... etc. If Roland fails us again, maybe all is not lost.