Members alcohol Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 My personal philosophy. For small venues - Most of the sound should come from the stage. Guitars and bass player should modulate their volume to the drummer. Ideally, there is someone out in front, a friend, bandmate, or manager, who can help you adjust your volume during soundcheck and the first couple of songs. The soundman works on getting the vocals at their right level, enhancing the drums and then enhancing your stage sound. He isn't mixing in the sense of controlling all the volumes, but enhancing the stage sound and responding to solos if and when needed, and to different levels of vocal performance. Agree, diagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 Agree, diagree? whatever the owner says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rodimus Prime Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 no, i disagree. get your amp at a decent volume and angle it so that FOH doesn't have it too loud. Mic the amps (di for bass) and let the soundguy have control. You'll have a better mix and the soundguy won't want to make you sound like {censored} and blame it on your inability to work with him... and he'd be right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncan Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 when i'm doing sound, and the guitarists plan on cranking their {censored}, i have them face their amps sideways, instead of right at the crowd. also, the amps then act as monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lefchr Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 For a small stage I think it makes more sense to let the amps provided the sound for medium to big a pa should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pr3Va1L Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 At least don't expect the soundman to change the volume for your solos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rogue_cashew Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 personally, it sucks to have a guitarist turn up so loud that the soundman can't put it through the PA very much, because you have one isolated spot in the crowd where it's too loud, and everywhere else it can't be heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 My personal philosophy. For small venues - Most of the sound should come from the stage. Guitars and bass player should modulate their volume to the drummer. Ideally, there is someone out in front, a friend, bandmate, or manager, who can help you adjust your volume during soundcheck and the first couple of songs. The soundman works on getting the vocals at their right level, enhancing the drums and then enhancing your stage sound. He isn't mixing in the sense of controlling all the volumes, but enhancing the stage sound and responding to solos if and when needed, and to different levels of vocal performance. Agree, diagree? I have to agree with this, and maybe it's the style of music I play, but any sub 100 person venue should only use the PA for vocals and maybe drums. The bassist and I spend/spent a lot of money to sound the way we do, we know how to "mix" our amps and our singer runs his own studio so he stands out front to make sure everything is mixed well. Most sound guys around here can ruin your band if you let them mic you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 personally, it sucks to have a guitarist turn up so loud that the soundman can't put it through the PA very much, because you have one isolated spot in the crowd where it's too loud, and everywhere else it can't be heard +1 Always used the PA, that way you can be more confidant that everyone in the crowd is getting the whole picture, and not just that one guy standing in that one spot you used to sound check with. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 The 12 page thread in live sound wasn't enough for you? http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23020686#post23020686 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted July 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 The 12 page thread in live sound wasn't enough for you?http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23020686#post23020686 It was, but after perusing this forum, I noticed that a lot of guys were going for more powerful amps, despite how many soundmen feel, and I wanted to get this perspective too, a perspective that was in the small minority in the Live Sound forum. Especially since these guys are going for 100 watt amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rodimus Prime Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 I have to agree with this, and maybe it's the style of music I play, but any sub 100 person venue should only use the PA for vocals and maybe drums. The bassist and I spend/spent a lot of money to sound the way we do, we know how to "mix" our amps and our singer runs his own studio so he stands out front to make sure everything is mixed well. Most sound guys around here can ruin your band if you let them mic you. "Yes, exactly. I have long (and profitable) relationships with the venues and promoters I work with, and if they say it's too loud then it's too loud. My goal is to keep the audience (especially the subscription stuff) coming back and spending their money with our programs and not some competing entertainment. That means putting the needs of many above the wants of a single guitar player (or drummer or whatever). If they start to blow people in the audience away, it won't much matter what they think of me holding things down and/or "ruining their tone". They won't be back anyway, the promoter will be sure of that and I'll never need to worry about them again, I'll just work on keeping the next show happening to everyone's satisfaction. There's a million other bands to take their place." sounds like money well spent then Well, there's always your basement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stephen Colbert Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 1st off...don't show up with a 100W Marshall JCM800 in a club (with 100 people in it). Because the bitch doesn't sound quite right until you crank that muther fucker to 9 or 10. 2ndly... STFU noob! j/k I just wanted to say that to someone today! Lastly... IF you do show up with a 100W Marshall JCM800 in a small club. Just expect more threads like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members .homewrecker. Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 1st off...don't show up with a 100W Marshall JCM800 in a club (with 100 people in it). Because the bitch doesn't sound quite right until you crank that muther fucker to 9 or 10. 2ndly... STFU noob! j/k I just wanted to say that to someone today! Lastly... IF you do show up with a 100W Marshall JCM800 in a small club. Just expect more threads like this. I do crank it though, I eq the amp so it's NOT shrill and face the speakers at a slight angle so that it's facing the drummer a little bit and we have no problem being heard anywhere in the places we've played. As for the noob comment I've always gone to the soundman before shows and explained to them what my goal is and such (move more air not necessarly being loud) and I work with them and have never had a problem. And it is very possible for a sound guy to mic a band with LOUD stage volume and have the FOH sound fine, they just don't want to do it. I've never been asked not to come back because of volume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 all this depends A LOT on how competent the soundguy is, and what their PA system is like...if you've got a clueless soundguy thru a {censored}ty system, you're better off cutting him outta the loop as much as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 100 watts is not that loud. It's only a few db louder then 50 watts actually. Most everyone who "posts here" likes amps with master volumes, so we're not talking about cranked marshall majors on a small stage. I'm also not familiar with whatever rinky dink stages your playing. I don't think I've played a club that didn't have a full PA + monitors and subs in a decade or so. The truth is, guitarists buy amps because of the tone, not because they're convenient, and not because they are X cubic inches in area in relationship to Y square feet of the club they'll be used at. There are a lot of people who don't know how to use their equipment properly, but that has nothing to do with how big or how powerful an amp might be. If a guitarist has their stage volume too loud, it's not the amps fault. In addition, a $200 hot plate is far more economical then buying a high quality low wattage amp (that probably has mushy el84 or 6v6 tone anyway). So, in short, it's not the amp that is to blame. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 I used a Hot Plate for years with great success. Now, luckily, my VHTs sound great at any volume. I try to get it balanced so that if I am right in front of the monitor, I hear my guitar through it, but if I take a step back, I can hear my amp. That means not to much amp is reaching the audience, but I also don't have to rely on the soundguy to hear everything. I've played more than one show where I didn't hear a single note I played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 The 12 page thread in live sound wasn't enough for you?http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23020686#post23020686 Looking for sympathetic ears(regardless of their knowledge) after getting the old "butt-handed-to-him" in his other post, eh? I was going to show that same link when I saw this. Maybe I'll get another e-mail from Alc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 It was, but after perusing this forum, I noticed that a lot of guys were going for more powerful amps, despite how many soundmen feel, and I wanted to get this perspective too, a perspective that was in the small minority in the Live Sound forum. Especially since these guys are going for 100 watt amps.Many of these are modern amps designed to get good preamp overdrive. Using the extra power for plenty of clean headroom and using mostly preamp overdrive for their crunch. And what you do with the amp, how you position it for good onstage balance is what is important. And many of these folks also own attenuators for setting their overall volume output. Something you wouldn't even give consideration to in your other post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 Sound guys tend to be more BAND oriented, that's essentially their job. A band has members other than the guitar players, and it's unfair to the rest of the band as well as the audience for the guitar to be out of proportion off the stage. It's also unfair to the audience for the volume to be so high that it's uncomfortable to them in order for the guitarist to get his "killer" tone. When an audience walks out because of the guitar being too loud, how does that fit into any BAND future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBecker Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 If the PA can handle it, it's the PAs job. That's the deal. Don't like it, don't play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 If the venue has a PA system..then use it. There are places....in MOST towns...that are just a room....not even a stage per se..., and your... "normal" volume covers the room. Be careful...your "normal" volume still might make people's ears and bowels bleed. You might feel pretty damn tough and teh br00tal, but it doesn't make you any fans, or return engagements. Okay...so you just masterbated with your amp....nice. I disagree with Cobra...you can't "cut a soundman out of the loop". You can piss him off even more, make him a bigger jackass then ever....that'll teach HIM! Not. He'll just {censored} it up even more. Maintain your sense of reason. I always try to work WITH the sound guy. If he says turn it down, I turn it down. I'd ratehr have my guitar IN the pA mix....along with most of the other music...that have hot spots and laser beams of ear bleeding sound, while others can't experience the awe-inspiring guitar tone that everyone in the house adores and cums over. Turning the amps CAN help. But nothing beats some common sense and reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 If the venue has a PA system..then use it. There are places....in MOST towns...that are just a room....not even a stage per se..., and your... "normal" volume covers the room. Be careful...your "normal" volume still might make people's ears and bowels bleed. You might feel pretty damn tough and teh br00tal, but it doesn't make you any fans, or return engagements. Okay...so you just masterbated with your amp....nice. I disagree with Cobra...you can't "cut a soundman out of the loop". You can piss him off even more, make him a bigger jackass then ever....that'll teach HIM! Not. He'll just {censored} it up even more. Maintain your sense of reason. I always try to work WITH the sound guy. If he says turn it down, I turn it down. I'd ratehr have my guitar IN the pA mix....along with most of the other music...that have hot spots and laser beams of ear bleeding sound, while others can't experience the awe-inspiring guitar tone that everyone in the house adores and cums over.Turning the amps CAN help. But nothing beats some common sense and reason.Ya, I don't get the snotty kids who purposely get on the wrong side of the soundperson immediately and then expect the person to do everything to make you as good as you can be. Once you've created an enemy its hard to get much cooperation out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 Sound guys tend to be more BAND oriented, that's essentially their job. A band has members other than the guitar players, and it's unfair to the rest of the band as well as the audience for the guitar to be out of proportion off the stage. It's also unfair to the audience for the volume to be so high that it's uncomfortable to them in order for the guitarist to get his "killer" tone. When an audience walks out because of the guitar being too loud, how does that fit into any BAND future?Maybe it gets them a spot on VH1's "WHERE ARE THEY NOW"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted July 8, 2007 Members Share Posted July 8, 2007 Ya, I don't get the snotty kids who purposely get on the wrong side of the soundperson immediately and then expect the person to do everything to make you as good as you can be. Once you've created an enemy its hard to get much cooperation out of them. +1 Am I the only person old enough to remember that you're supposed to tip the soundguy? Best $20 investment you can make per show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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