Four Dead In Ohio - Kent State - May 4th 1970

[fastblueheeler]

I think I

[Glenn F]

I think I

[Queequeg]

I remember that day 40 years ago. I was 17 yeas old and living in Ohio about 35 miles from Kent. It was a sad day. There were no winners. Everybody lost on that day. It was an angry time in America. A bit like now.

You boys ought to give it a rest.

Gil, let the song speak for itself. No need defending it.

And FretFiend, think about getting some balance in your post counts. Aim for 50% or more to be music-related. You're currently running way out in front on the angry guy posting side.

I'm going to go ahead and say it.

Peace.

[fastblueheeler]

I thought the theme song from that movie 'Team America' covered that? Straw man argument; foreign fanatics launching an attack against the U.S. is not the same thing as Americans in uniform opening fire on American students.

 

 

It was just a question regarding remembering sad times in our history and Neil Young.

 

Say, aren't you the guy that got laid because of that song (Ohio).

I'm glad for you at least "They did not die in vain".

[FretFiend.]

I was a teen when the Kent State Massacre occurred. I remember being shocked when that happened.

 

The number of Americans killed at Kent State was four, with nine others wounded.

 

I also remember getting the news several times that fellow classmates of mine had been killed in Vietnam. I remember being shocked when that happened too.

 

The number of Americans who died in Vietnam was roughly fifty thousand, with another hundred and fifty thousand wounded.

 

The glassy eyed "enlightened" people can feel free to implicate Richard Nixon in the Kent State Massacre, but they wouldn't dare consider the criminal acts that Lyndon Johnson perpetrated.

 

There, that ought to be good for another few pages of flames.

[Glenn F]

 

It was just a question regarding remembering sad times in our history and Neil Young. Say, aren't you the guy that got laid because of that song (Ohio). I'm glad for you at least "They did not die in vain".

 

 

Jealous?:poke:

 

Irrelevant. Those kids died needlessly, because of the negligence of the authorities. Lives were shattered, and America lost a little bit more of its moral authority. They, indeed, 'died in vain.' I wonder if the people who did the shooting ever lost any sleep? Ever express any remorse? I know the politicians didn't repudiate the act.

 

I think Paul McCartney wrote some kind of tribute to the victims of 9/11, though it kinda sucks.

 

Cheers,

 

Glenn

[fastblueheeler]

 

Irrelevant. Those kids died needlessly, because of the negligence of the authorities. Lives were shattered, and America lost a little bit more of its moral authority. They, indeed, 'died in vain.' I wonder if the people who did the shooting ever lost any sleep? Ever express any remorse? I know the politicians didn't repudiate the act. I think Paul McCartney wrote some kind of tribute to the victims of 9/11, though it kinda sucks. Glenn

 

Glen, Agree - wholeheartedly! But my guess would be the poorly trained, teenage National Guard troops who pulled the triggers had some if not a lot of remorse. But I don't know that.

 

The relevance is not between the two incidents, they compare only in the fact that they were American tragedies ............... and Neil Young wrote crappy songs about them. My point is that this thread was started more to deliver a political message than to mourn the event IMO and some of us don't mourn events unless there's a healthy dose of evil America involved. So the answer to my question, "will there be a 9/11 video?" obviously is no. If I asked why, the honest answer would be because it doesn't move me and that's OK with me, I'm just asking questions. If I asked why the death of 3000 doesn't move you as least as much as the death of 4? Well everyone has to answer that for himself.

[Michael Martin]

All this has got me wondering about something I've meaning to bring up on HCAG: do bridge pins have any effect on a guitar's tone?

[fastblueheeler]

All this has got me wondering about something I've meaning to bring up on HCAG: do bridge pins have any effect on a guitar's tone?

Definitely! Try playing your guitar without them. (Ovations don't count)

[Michael Martin]

Definitely! Try playing your guitar without them. (Ovations don't count)

Touche.

Somebody needs to hijack this thread so we can start OCD-ing about something meaningful, and worth arguing about. Like guitars, sex, or booze. Or maybe even about how those three things relate, in a creative sense...

[jamesp]

Everybody who thinks this OP was a "political" post should report it. I just did.

I can't see that passing as a "music" post on any other guitar forum. Stuff like this flies here only because we try to be chill. Would HCAF buy the line that "Hey, they were playing amps!" Or the Recording forums let it slide b/c it was recorded?

Fatback established that intended or not, the OP is political in nature. So why hasn't it been moved to HCPP? I have to assume that it's still here because no one reports it.

So, nothing personal Gil, but I'm reporting this kind of post from here on out. It's easy enough for me to ignore, but it bugs me that we lose good guitar-playing people over this kind of crap. It's just not worth it.

[kujozilla]

Everybody who thinks this OP was a "political" post should report it. I just did. I can't see that passing as a "music" post on any other guitar forum. Stuff like this flies here only because we try to be chill. Would HCAF buy the line that "Hey, they were playing amps!" Or the Recording forums let it slide b/c it was recorded? Fatback established that intended or not, the OP is political in nature. So why hasn't it been moved to HCPP? I have to assume that it's still here because no one reports it. So, nothing personal Gil, but I'm reporting this kind of post from here on out. It's easy enough for me to ignore, but it bugs me that we lose good guitar-playing people over this kind of crap. It's just not worth it.

Hey James buddy I hate what Gill did too, but he is one of the good guitar playing people you just mentioned and I sure would miss his contributions.

[jamesp]

Hey James buddy I hate what Gill did too, but he is one of the good guitar playing people you just mentioned and I sure would miss his contributions.

He wouldn't go away just because a post or two did. At least I hope not. Lots of us don't mind occasionally wading into HCPP to discuss political subjects. Why should Gil?

There's no way we're going to convince him not to post this kind of stuff. Or change his perspective on the issue. What I'm proposing is that we use the tools available to us and not drag it out for days here alienating people who would rather talk about guitars and music. A report doesn't have to be a condemnation. It's just a vote to move a subject elsewhere.

So I say vote early and vote often.

[jamesp]

You can't be serious with that statement. Do you really think this forum loses good guitar playing people because of a discussion like this? I think not. I think most just choose to ignore it. Why allow it to bug you? just don't look. Ignore it. Does the thread count bug you? It has to be something else bugging you because why else would you bother reporting? Live and let live.

 

 

Sure I'm serious.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showpost.php?p=39748028&postcount=111

 

I've heard as much from other folks on other forums and I've heard it in PMs. And those are just the peeps who say something. It's happening and it bugs me. Heck, you know me, I don't mind getting into it. I'm just saying we should do it in HCPP.

[rhancox]

I remember a thread about a year ago, after a thread like this, about whether this forum should be more actively moderated. The majority, myself included, thought it not be the best idea.

In the last 6 months or so I have ventured over to AGF, specifically the Show and Tell forum, and spend more time there than anywhere else. What I have come to appreciate over there, is the lack of this type of thread. Even in their "Open Mic" forum, there is no political or religious topics tolerated and all the forums are moderated to the point that it never starts.

While it may be true that not every thread like this has driven away many a fine guitar player, it is true to some degree. The real damage, I think, has been when people, who share this common interest of acoustic guitars, read the political opinions, or the name calling, by others they had held in relative high regard. Impressions get skewed, the online friendships erode and the interest in each others experiences goes away. That's when cliques start to form.

Over in the Show and Tell forum on AGF, people share their music and they comment on the music. That's it. That's the way it should be.

Gil, I must say, re-reading your opening post, if you had only left it at your own words and not included the "contextual recap", my guess is you would have received comments on your song and nothing else. Given the vast amount of information on the internet, if someone really didn't know what you were talking about, they could have looked it up themselves. Even your story about telling all the young parents at your child's preschool seemed a little out of line. It may have been May 4th and 40th anniversary, but did that kind of discussion need to take place at that very place and time (can you say relevance?)?

The point is, the majority said they would rather police themselves instead of being heavily moderated and the result has been, we're not capable of policing ourselves. Gil, you posted the very same thing over in the AGF Show and Tell forum, without the "contextual recap" and it got no response. 101 views (to date), but no response. I would bet dollars to donuts you left off the recap because of the rules over there. As such, the known rules and moderation kept the thread about the song, and the player, which is what should have happened here.

It doesn't matter your intentions. Perception is reality. We can't change that. But we can live with it.

[FretFiend.]

Everybody who thinks this OP was a "political" post should report it. I just did. I can't see that passing as a "music" post on any other guitar forum. Stuff like this flies here only because we try to be chill. Would HCAF buy the line that "Hey, they were playing amps!" Or the Recording forums let it slide b/c it was recorded? Fatback established that intended or not, the OP is political in nature. So why hasn't it been moved to HCPP? I have to assume that it's still here because no one reports it. So, nothing personal Gil, but I'm reporting this kind of post from here on out. It's easy enough for me to ignore, but it bugs me that we lose good guitar-playing people over this kind of crap. It's just not worth it.

A surprising reaction. Commendable I guess. I agree with you, if that matters to you. This belongs in the PP. But reporting anything here is probably futile.
Jon Chappell has evidently chosen to focus his participation on HC2.0. HCAG is essentially un-moderated.

[jamesp]

The point is, the majority said they would rather police themselves instead of being heavily moderated and the result has been, we're not capable of policing ourselves.

That's why I'm thinking we should Report (Vote) more!

Gil, you posted the very same thing over in the AGF Show and Tell forum, without the "contextual recap" and it got no response. 101 views (to date), but no response. I would bet dollars to donuts you left off the recap because of the rules over there. As such, the known rules and moderation kept the thread about the song, and the player, which is what should have happened here.

That is bogus beyond belief. But sadly, I believe it.
Great post Rob.

[poppytater]

I'd rather ride the roller coaster than the Ferris wheel.

[jamesp]

A surprising reaction. Commendable I guess. I agree with you, if that matters to you. This belongs in the PP. But reporting anything here is probably futile. Jon Chappell has evidently chosen to focus his participation on HC2.0. HCAG is essentially un-moderated.

Thanks! But alas, you are wrong and a liar.

Let's vote like crazy and see if anyone's listening!
Push the Button People!

[FretFiend.]

I remember a thread about a year ago, after a thread like this, about whether this forum should be more actively moderated. The majority, myself included, thought it not be the best idea. In the last 6 months or so I have ventured over to AGF, specifically the Show and Tell forum, and spend more time there than anywhere else. What I have come to appreciate over there, is the lack of this type of thread. Even in their "Open Mic" forum, there is no political or religious topics tolerated and all the forums are moderated to the point that it never starts. While it may be true that not every thread like this has driven away many a fine guitar player, it is true to some degree. The real damage, I think, has been when people, who share this common interest of acoustic guitars, read the political opinions, or the name calling, by others they had held in relative high regard. Impressions get skewed, the online friendships erode and the interest in each others experiences goes away. That's when cliques start to form. Over in the Show and Tell forum on AGF, people share their music and they comment on the music. That's it. That's the way it should be. Gil, I must say, re-reading your opening post, if you had only left it at your own words and not included the "contextual recap", my guess is you would have received comments on your song and nothing else. Given the vast amount of information on the internet, if someone really didn't know what you were talking about, they could have looked it up themselves. Even your story about telling all the young parents at your child's preschool seemed a little out of line. It may have been May 4th and 40th anniversary, but did that kind of discussion need to take place at that very place and time (can you say relevance?)? The point is, the majority said they would rather police themselves instead of being heavily moderated and the result has been, we're not capable of policing ourselves. Gil, you posted the very same thing over in the AGF Show and Tell forum, without the "contextual recap" and it got no response. 101 views (to date), but no response. I would bet dollars to donuts you left off the recap because of the rules over there. As such, the known rules and moderation kept the thread about the song, and the player, which is what should have happened here. It doesn't matter your intentions. Perception is reality. We can't change that. But we can live with it.

 

 

QFT! Hear hear! The mods at AGF will not tolerate political comments. G0216 knows it. That speaks volumes about whether G0216 is being honest when he says this wasn't political.

[FretFiend.]

Thanks! But alas, you are wrong and a liar. Let's vote like crazy and see if anyone's listening! Push the Button People!

Since I have been such an... active participant in this thread, I think I will refrain from reporting it myself. After all, I'm just a troll.

[poppytater]

No need to report anything, if you don't like the content of a particular thread, move on to one that you do. The freedom to fudge a little off topic now and then is one of the things that makes this place great. If someone moves on because of threads they didn't think were appropriate, then this obviously wasn't the place for them and I wish them good luck, but I don't think we should censor ourselves out of fear of alienating people. I don't want to see this place turned into another soulless, boring git site where price , brand and anything else that veers the slightest bit off the prescribed course of guitar righteousness is forbidden. Here, you can not only learn about guitars, but also a little about the people who play them.

[fastblueheeler]

No need to report anything, if you don't like the content of a particular thread, move on to one that you do. The freedom to fudge a little off topic now and then is one of the things that makes this place great. If someone moves on because of threads they didn't think were appropriate, then this obviously wasn't the place for them and I wish them good luck, but I don't think we should censor ourselves out of fear of alienating people. I don't want to see this place turned into another soulless, boring git site where price , brand and anything else that veers the slightest bit off the prescribed course of guitar righteousness is forbidden. Here, you can not only learn about guitars, but also a little about the people who play them.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I agree with this.

[jamesp]

I went for a walk. There were roses. I stopped and smeld-ed them.

Report or don't. I don't care.


I'm merely proposing an alternative to arguing here about subjects that other forums would happily make a quick meal of.

Time to practice!

[Michael Martin]

All I can say, ma homies, is that I lost my religion several decades ago, and it's all for the better. Political righteousness is an atavistic masquerade for religion, IMO. And furthermore, IMO, we'd all do well to lose our respective religions. Who gives a {censored} what chauvinistic tendentious sectarian {censored} you subscribe to. Shut the {censored} up and make music, I always say.

Guitars. Sex. The I, the IV, and the {censored}ing V. Friendship, pure and true. Good liquor, moderately indulged-in of course. The love of friends and family and beloved animals. The absence of malice. The benefit of the doubt. The worship of goddesses, as well as demigoddesses.

These are the things of a good life. Yes?