Four Dead In Ohio - Kent State - May 4th 1970

[Tartanlad]

Personally i wouldnt be seen in London hate that place one of the unfriendliest city in the UK..no one speaks to each another

i even spoke to guy fae Liverpool England last night here in Scotland

he also doesnt like London but he liked Glasgow because it is a friendly city

even though knife crime is pretty bad

 

I went to ma Cousins in London many yrs back in 79' travelled all way to London fae Scotland here went for 2 wks for a Holiday break with ma brother

and really we stayed with my Cousin and came back to Scotland after just 2 days in London..remember on tube-train everyone sitting looking into space

no one speaks to one another..crikey masel and ma brother chatting away

and think we had horns attached tae our heads..no i wouldnt ever go back to London to unfriendly

 

Even when out dressed up ..sober at time also

and try chatting to a burd..fir crying out loud they are so ignorant

just walked away when even politely asking fir a feckin dance

 

i was happy after the 2 days to arrive back into a friendlier country

where people you dont even know shall chat away

 

it maybe that London is so large that they are wary of each another

i dont know..but i do know there's not a Scot whom likes London for sure

do i blame them "Not A Jot"

 

Later in yrs in 1990 i was payed by lewisham County Council in London

my return fares to attend a job interview from Scotland

i went travelled down again a week later was to start the job

 

but i didnt care to start phoned them to say that i had found another job in Scotland

here in which i stayed

 

As for gun crime i dont know the full stats but USA seems to be the worse

for such..though ye London and odd time some other citys like Manchester etc

are beginning to get worse id say for such ?

 

But here in Scotland mainly i add Glasgow every weekend someone or other is killed by knifes..which seem to be the worst Glasgow in UK for such

 

which aint a nice statistic to have

But if u know a city then you know where's safe and where the risky areas are

and you shall have such areas in all citys for sure.

[Michael Martin]

 

you Americans hand out guns like a shopkeeper would hand out sweets to a kid in a store...but thankfully we dont allow guns so freely.

 

Such different cultures, UK and USA. I wonder if maybe the old-world embrace of paternalism can be traced back to government by monarchy? The whole idea of a "shopkeeper" handing out things is a jarringly weird metaphor to an American. My life isn't defined by what a "shopkeeper" will or won't hand out, or "allow"; it's defined by what I want or what I think I need. For the most part.

 

BTW I am not a gun owner, but I very much like the idea that I could be if I wanted.

[Tartanlad]

 

Get rid of our guns? lol yeah then we can end up like Britain. I guess ALL the murders stopped in London when guns were banned.. In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent. http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world's crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people. This sea change in English crime followed a sea change in government policies. Gun regulations have been part of a more general disarmament based on the proposition that people don't need to protect themselves because society will protect them. It also will protect their neighbors: Police advise those who witness a crime to "walk on by" and let the professionals handle it.

 

 

I have to say here chordchunker that if guns were made so easily available in Britain not just London and Wales :poke: also Scotland and North Ireland

 

Then gun crime would be by far worse i know for a fact

many people whom have been in serious fights etc through alcohol

wouldnt think 2wice about using a gun or carrying of guns on the streets

and gun crime therefor would be like USA if not worse..but the fact remains

ye odd time we here of gun crime but nothing like in USA where guns are readily available to all Tom Dick and Harry.

[Tartanlad]

Michael,

 

If guns were available easily here then many more prisons would have to be built as many people would be facing life behind bars

 

The culture we have im not sure about USA is that the drinking culture

is quite bad last night for instance packed pub i was in where treys of whickies vodkas etc and shots are drunk by woman as well as men

 

And i can smell trouble brewing before it comes..and if guns were available

here then i can guarantee many young people would be killing others

at random..Crikey i seen on the news here in Scotland that in Wisconsin

they were walking around with guns in holsters..i had to as really i used to like watching Westerns with John Wayne James Stewart and the such

 

But thats how my country would become if guns were made so easily available..drink or drugs and guns just do not go.

[fatback]

 

So you are saying that a human being can be irrelevant? Sorry but that is quite silly indeed. Establishing relevance is not an absolute. I'm sure you know this. For example you cannot say "that guy guildfire is relevant" It means nothing. Relevant to what? My point is that in the context of determining relevance, since the very definition of relevance is having to do with a time and place, we must understand that just as time and place is changing with each moment, relevance can be very fleeting. You simply cannot make a blanket statement that someone is irrelevant. Makes no sense at all. However you can say that a song is irrelevant. That's what I mean when I say we're not talking about the man himself but rather his work, as in the songs. That too is always depending on an individual's perspective. A song or songs from an artist may not be relevant to guildfire but on the other hand someone else could be experiencing a situation or feeling where the songs are relevant at that time and place to that person. Can you grasp that concept? And in some cases a song can become suddenly relevant again for a lot of people for a brief time. Recent examples include Neil Young's performance of the song Long May You Run on Conan O'Brien's last tonight show. Yes it is an old song but lo and behold for that place and time it was very relevant and even became a Twitter trending topic. Then again when same song was performed at the Olympics closing ceremony. Very relevant for that time and place. Perfect song for both occasions. Now those are fleeting instances of relevance that are now gone. However let's look at an example of permanent relevance as in the case of the song Ohio. That song will forever be relevant to the Kent State Shootings. Whenever Kent State is remembered it is always that song that comes to mind. So a permanent state of relevance has been achieved surrounding that time and place. Don't know how else I can better explain it but bottom line is to simply dismiss someone as being irrelevant is silly and meaningless.

 

 

How can this song be relevent to the Kent State Shootings? Do you mean its about the Kent State Shootings? Did the song change the meaning of the shootings? What do you mean by relevence?

 

How can a song achieve a permanent state of relevance concerning the time and place of Kent State when you are bemoaning the fact that for may people - the event has been entirely forgotten. (a very special form of relevance)

 

Relevance is connected to a song by the listener and is not fixed. The best the writer can achieve is to try and give meaning to the song through its subject matter and the choice and use of language - both musical and lyrical. But even then the significance may change with time.

 

Phil

[Sangemon]

I KNEW I had heard the name Allison Krauss somewhere before!!!:idea:

[LiFeStArTs@40]

Gil,

 

You see the event entirely different than I do. These protestors at Kent State weren't just a bunch of "innocent kids" that just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time. They were {censored}ing up the place so bad that the National Guard had to be called in. I don't give a {censored} what they were protesting, they still need to behave within the limits of our laws. PERIOD. The National Guard WAS protecting the peace as far as I'm concerned. Responding to the then governor was no excuse for these students to go on the rampage that they did. What's a shame is that they behaved so poorly that deadly force had to be used and that some innocent bystanders go caught in it.

 

Truly, that's the beauty of living here in the USA... if you don't like it, you're free to GTFO. If you choose to live here, you need to not partake in violent riots.

[diceman1000]

 

Nixon was a good president. Much better than Obama.

 

 

Anna Nicole Smith would've been better than Barry Obammy:poke:

[Sangemon]

 

Gil, You see the event entirely different than I do. These protestors at Kent State weren't just a bunch of "innocent kids" that just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time. They were {censored}ing up the place so bad that the National Guard had to be called in. I don't give a {censored} what they were protesting, they still need to behave within the limits of our laws. PERIOD. The National Guard WAS protecting the peace as far as I'm concerned. Responding to the then governor was no excuse for these students to go on the rampage that they did. What's a shame is that they behaved so poorly that deadly force had to be used and that some innocent bystanders go caught in it. Truly, that's the beauty of living here in the USA... if you don't like it, you're free to GTFO. If you choose to live here, you need to not partake in violent riots.

 

 

Bull{censored}.

 

There was no call whatsoever for deadly force to be used at that demonstration. It's a National Disgrace.

[Sangemon]

 

Anna Nicole Smith would've been better than Barry Obammy:poke:

 

 

That sounds very racist.

[Ohioarrow]

Gil, ignore that background noise. I enjoyed the tune. Thank you for putting it together and sharing it with us.

 

It's a piece of music fellows, and from what I hear, a pretty dam good representation of the original, lighten up will ya? Geez.

 

 

Why does everything have to have political underpinnings around here? Screw that, we're a music forum. He shared a piece of music with us, I don't see an issue with that.

[panhandler]

Bull{censored}. There was no call whatsoever for deadly force to be used at that demonstration. It's a National Disgrace.

 

 

Well said! You DON'T protect the "peace" by killing protesters. It is well within our right's to protest. Even "IF" the students got rowdy... Death by Nat'nl Guard isn't the answer.

 

So many JACKASS's are content to watch people get wrongfully killed in the name of peace or in the name of war... as long as... It don't involve them or their family. Idiots... Friggin hypocritical IDIOTS!

 

RIP 58k

Give Peace a Chance

Free Mandela?

[guildfire]

Gil, ignore that background noise. I enjoyed the tune. Thank you for putting it together and sharing it with us. It's a piece of music fellows, and from what I hear, a pretty dam good representation of the original, lighten up will ya? Geez. Why does everything have to have political underpinnings around here? Screw that, we're a music forum. He shared a piece of music with us, I don't see an issue with that.

 

Nice try. Gil is the one who posts his "message" songs and then uses it as a platform for the political bull{censored} he believes in. I don't care if he posts a "message" song, that's fine with me. But when he uses it to respond to anyone who doesn't agree with him to spew his view of the world and preach to the rest of us, then I have a problem. Read his posts.

[diceman1000]

 

That sounds very racist.

 

 

how is that racist:confused: i don't like Barak Obama... PERIOD, that's my right as an American...

 

nice tune by the way Gil....

[Tartanlad]

Gil..I also like yer music very gd and i would love to be able to play a guitar like such but have not played to long and never had one single lesson

 

Also others outside when hearing them sound pro..but i also dont practice enough for sure..in a small town not far fae me i wouldnt take my guitar out

 

as all they do is get pie-eyed as we say or pissed out of their tiny brain-cells

 

and their fav past time is taking the piss..i wont go back again to such a town

 

But as for diceman above he has the right not to like Obama

as i have the right to hating the Conservative Party and their now Leader David Cameron

in UK as well as The Liberal Democrats and Nick Clegg whom to me are just a miniature tory party

 

When Maggie Thatcher of the Conservative Party Dies ill be along with many Scots waving our flags

from every window id do the same with Cameron of the tory party

 

they are just for the rich people in our country their motto is dont tax the richest people

in the UK

but yes tax the poor etc is their motto

 

Vast majority of the rich here is in the South of England

 

At least the Labour Party helped with heating allowance to the poorer Pensioners

in the UK during our coldest months..whereas these others like David Cameron

of Conservative Party are just for the wealthy in UK

 

Ok for him sitting in his Oxfordshire Mansion i hope he Cameron rots in "HELL"

 

From now on myself and many Scots now ? depends on this final outcome as tory party (Conservative Party) it looks more like they are in talks with the Libs as its been a hung parliament here.. shall be leading the UK

 

if so then from now on i shall be as well as many Scots all shall now be voting for SNP

we always were mainly Labour supporters

 

But with the Scottish National Party its our only way of shrugging these Southern English cunts away from us once and for all..only reason i and many voted Labour as they are for the ordinary working person in the UK

 

But Doesnt look good..the Conservatives are for the well off in the country look like winning

WHY because to many rich bastards in Southern England whom vote them in

no wonder us Scots Hate the South of England in particular

 

Sorry to USA guys for this rant had to let little steam-off

[Sangemon]

how is that racist:confused: i don't like Barak Obama... PERIOD, that's my right as an American... nice tune by the way Gil....

 

You have every right to dislike Obama, many people do, and I have no problem with that, but "Obammy" sounds racist, sorry...

[gull12]

I started posting here several weeks ago. I love guitars, and I wanted to exchange ideas with you folks. But since I came here, I have read about the 1.0-2.0 fiasco, the horrible Kent State killings of 1970, and various other things that, sadly, have nothing to do with guitars.

We all have our feelings about all these terrible senseless acts of needless violence that have happened; the Kent State killings, the Columbine massacre, the school killings here in Oregon and around the US, the wars, the slaughter of innocent life anywhere. But it is my feeling that we should hold a special place for these things in our individual hearts.

IMHO, what we are doing here, by attacking each other for our feelings, is only spilling the blood all over again. We can do nothing about what has happened in the past. We can only learn from it and do the things necessary to change the present and the future. Maybe we should talk about those things.

I feel as strongly as all of you about these terrible tragedies. I, myself, have had the misfortune of seeing people die. I have smelled the blood and heard the crying and the screams. But I don't feel that it's proper to voice those feelings here.

So since I can't change things, I'm going to find a forum where I can talk about guitars. I wish all well, and I truly hope you all find what you're looking for. May the Lord Bless you all.

[fatback]

Gil, ignore that background noise. I enjoyed the tune. Thank you for putting it together and sharing it with us. It's a piece of music fellows, and from what I hear, a pretty dam good representation of the original, lighten up will ya? Geez. Why does everything have to have political underpinnings around here? Screw that, we're a music forum. He shared a piece of music with us, I don't see an issue with that.

 

Lets be honest here - if gil had just shared the music nobody would really be arguing would they? What gil actually did was post the music while putting it into a context. Now if he had just said this is about Kent state and let the song speak for itself there would still not have been an issue. But he went a little further than that, in that he did give it a political interpretation. Now I might just agree with his interpretation but when he tries to say that his interpretation is not political then he is being disingenuous. I have no problem with political content - I do have a problem when a person provides political content, denies its there and then accuse others of being 'political' when they respond.

 

Phil

[FretFiend.]

Sorry, you are wrong. ...

 

Facts:

Rhodes was a loudmouth. He sent in the National Guard at the request of the Mayor. The Guard troops were equipped only with helmets, web gear, and rifles, no riot gear, no tear gas, no shields. Bad combination. Tragic outcome.

 

Bull{censored}:

Sinister government conspiracies. Movies that "examine all of the facts". "A friend that was there that day". If I don't believe this, then I must have chosen not to be "enlightened". "Sorry, you are wrong." Citing a single source out of thousands, in support of your position.

 

I believe I detect a pattern here.

 

No, I'm not wrong. Yes, your position is bull{censored}... and I make no condescending apology for that.

[Michael Martin]

Doesn't the constitution establish a strict separation between guitar music and religion? Er, politics? If not, I'm sure it was a simple oversight by the founding fathers. And mothers.

 

Sex, desire, love, heartbreak, loss, perversion and death are such MUCH better song themes...SO much closer to where music comes from in the first place, ja?

 

IMHO of course.

[S~R~O]

Doesn't the constitution establish a strict separation between guitar music and religion? Er, politics? If not, I'm sure it was a simple oversight by the founding fathers. And mothers. Sex, desire, love, heartbreak, loss, perversion and death are such MUCH better song themes...SO much closer to where music comes from in the first place, ja? IMHO of course.

 

 

 

Michael, Yea, something about the persuit of happiness

[RKO]

Holy crap! What happened here while I was away? Gil, the tune rocks, Barack Obama is and will be a historic president for far more than the color of his skin. Oh, and the killing of those kids in 1970 was borderline fascism.

Now, that's that. Everybody go back to the forum and play nice.

[RKO]

One more thing: Gil, your B string is flat. There, now I've pissed off everybody.

Thank you and good night.

[Tartanlad]

Good this thread hey lads i think Gil deserves a medal for this thread

 

and his music.

[Michael Martin]

Michael, Yea, something about the persuit of happiness

That's it, in a nutshell, SteveO. Never more aptly or succinctly put.