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Sgt Pepper: The Beatles Failure

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
    And minor point of correction - I don't think they ever intended for the album to be impossible to perform live - they merely realized that it would be impossible for them to perform some of their songs from the Revolver (and after) period live due to the cost of taking the LSO on the road with them and the technological limitations of the time.
    You are correct.

    It was probably more about removing the restriction of "how are we going to play this live?" while they were producing a recording.

    Every worm, every insect, every animal is working
    for the ecological wellbeing of the planet.

    Only we humans, who claim to be the most intelligent
    species here, are not doing that. ~Sadhguru

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    • #17
      Originally posted by guido61 View Post

      Was that at the LA Forum? I went to that show as well. Don't remember which night I was there, but it still stands as my most amazing concert experience ever. Realizing it was f'n Paul McCartney playing Sgt Pepper's was unreal.

      I wouldn't go to the Forum because that's where the Lakers play.

      George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
      Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

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      • #18
        Speaking of Sgt Pepper from start to finish, check this out:
        Last edited by Hoot Owl; 05-20-2019, 11:10 AM.
        George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
        Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post
          I got the first two years of a music degree, and qualified for a minor but didn't request it on my diploma.

          FWIW, in my current playing, I ride the border between the two. Both my horn bands and my theater gigs have some degreed players who have studied performance, and many of them (not all, but most) cannot improvise to save their lives. We also have "untrained" players who always think in terms of making music, rather than in terms of following the chart/score. Players with both are rare and incredibly valuable.
          As you say, the players with both are valuable but I don't think they are all that rare. I know lots of players who are competent with both approaches.

          Chet Atkins described it well when he said "teach them how to play then teach them how to read" - which is my philosophy when teaching.


          Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post
          Anecdote - about a year ago I was directing a theater gig, and I gave the instruction that we would do a playoff based on one of the "rock" numbers from the show, play the head, then two verses through with soloists each 12 bars, then the last 4 bars of the score as an "outro". The drums, bass, guitar and keyboard played it perfectly as described without even looking at the score; the concertmaster (lead violin), asked me if I would chart the playoff so that the string section could follow it. Different ways of approaching music - not good or bad, just different.
          You mention string section. Charts are useful and very efficient when you want to get an ensemble to play together.


          I have a friend on island who is a highly trained classical piano player. Whenever we need someone to walk in and read complex parts we hire her and she nails it on the first try. Once, the two of us were backing up a singer at a Christmas concert and she was sight reading Vince Guaraldi parts, including transcriptions of his solos. At one point I asked her what key the song was and she replied "I don't know but it has three flats."

          Although our approaches are quite different, she and I have mutual respect - I admire her ability to sigh read and she my ability to improvise.
          Every worm, every insect, every animal is working
          for the ecological wellbeing of the planet.

          Only we humans, who claim to be the most intelligent
          species here, are not doing that. ~Sadhguru

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post

            I wouldn't go to the Forum because that's where the Lakers play.
            Do the Lakers still play basketball?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by guido61 View Post

              Do the Lakers still play basketball?
              Two of them do. The rest, not so much.

              George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
              Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

              Comment


              • #22
                the technology to do something like Sargent pepper live didn't exist as they were recording it.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by onelife View Post
                  It was probably more about removing the restriction of "how are we going to play this live?" while they were producing a recording.
                  Exactly.

                  And remember, live performances were no picnic for them at the time when they stopped doing them - the crowds, the screaming, the inability to go out and see the towns they were visiting, the threats from the wives of foreign leaders, etc. etc. Not to mention the fact that the PA systems of the day couldn't keep up with the SPL levels from the crowds - they often couldn't even hear themselves as they were playing. They felt live performances were too restrictive, and they wanted to focus on working in the studio, which was a far more creative and less restrictive musical environment for them... and without the necessity of having to perform the new songs live, they felt free to try new things, without having to worry about how they were going to perform them live.

                  **********

                  "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                  - George Carlin

                  "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                  - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                  "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                  - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post
                    the technology to do something like Sargent pepper live didn't exist as they were recording it.
                    Only if they wanted to do the entire album in a note-for-note reproduction style.

                    But certainly they could have played a few of the tracks off the new album and a lot of older ones just like the rest of their tours if that's what they wanted to do.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by guido61 View Post
                      But certainly they could have played a few of the tracks off the new album and a lot of older ones just like the rest of their tours if that's what they wanted to do.
                      They retired from touring in August of 1966. Paperback Writer was the newest song they played on that final tour.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                        Do the Lakers still play basketball?
                        Sounds like Magic Johnson is blaming management, from a blub I saw in the crawl line, of, I think ESPN.
                        (When in court, after swearing to tell the truth) "Facts are facts and alternative facts are perjury."

                        ...Julia Olson, executive director, Our Children's Trust

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Zooey View Post

                          They retired from touring in August of 1966. Paperback Writer was the newest song they played on that final tour.
                          Yes, I know.

                          I'm just saying that I don't think it was really the inability to recreate Sgt Pepper's that was the reason they stopped touring. Had they really wanted to continue they had plenty of material to tour with, including tracks on that album that would have sounded fine played as 4 pieces.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by thankyou View Post

                            Sounds like Magic Johnson is blaming management, from a blub I saw in the crawl line, of, I think ESPN.
                            The Lakers are a train-wreck when it comes to management. Kinda feel sorry for LeBron, but not really. He should have known what he was signing up for.

                            Meanwhile, I'll enjoy watching the Warriors sweep the Trailblazers tonight.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                              Exactly.

                              And remember, live performances were no picnic for them at the time when they stopped doing them - the crowds, the screaming, the inability to go out and see the towns they were visiting, the threats from the wives of foreign leaders, etc. etc. Not to mention the fact that the PA systems of the day couldn't keep up with the SPL levels from the crowds - they often couldn't even hear themselves as they were playing. They felt live performances were too restrictive, and they wanted to focus on working in the studio, which was a far more creative and less restrictive musical environment for them... and without the necessity of having to perform the new songs live, they felt free to try new things, without having to worry about how they were going to perform them live.
                              That's why they stopped touring. They didn't stop because they couldn't play more complex songs live - that's an excuse.

                              George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                              Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                                The Lakers are a train-wreck when it comes to management. Kinda feel sorry for LeBron, but not really. He should have known what he was signing up for.

                                Meanwhile, I'll enjoy watching the Warriors sweep the Trailblazers tonight.
                                Warriors - Bucks is going to be a show.

                                George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                                Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                                Comment

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