Members NOS68 Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'd like to here EG's thoughts on this eBay situation. A couple of weeks ago I listed a loaded strat pg on ebay (listing here) which as you can see sold for $76.00, after the listing ended the buyer asked if I had any other parts he needed to complete his build. I added in a neck plate and screws, jack plate and jack, strap buttons, and backing cover(it had the plastic still on it but looked scratched up which he was informed of) and pg screws for $10.00. Well when he recieved it the {censored} started here are the messages back and forth. Dear sanman682000,After some investigation, it appears that you did not send the legitimate '62 reissue pickups, neck plate or back plate. I thought I was getting a year 2008-2009 '62 reissue loaded pick guard and parts for my $94 but there are anomalies I would like explained:Why are the lead wires not cloth covered?Who performed the circuit wiring on this loaded pick guard?If the pickups are not Fender '62 reissue then who is the manufacturer and what is the model number? not Fender '62 reissue then who is the manufacturer and what is the model number? Dear findsmoney,I never stated this was a pull off from a 62 re-issue. I am the one who wired it and the reason it is a 62 is I used a Fender 62 reissue pick guard and shield plate,the notch in the neck pocket is what makes them a "62". .It has much better components than a Mex 60 reissue would have and the same (with a better cap)as a American 62 would have save the pickups, of course an American made loaded guard goes for $250. The pickups are Walter Paul he only offers one set. They are the equals of GFS and the like. IMO a little better than Mex Fenders but not quite as nice as US Fenders. A take of from a mexican would have no cloth wireing cheap Chinese 5-way, very little shielding and a cheap ceramic cap. For $76 you got a good deal on the pg components separatly would have cost you over 100 without the pups. PG - 29, shield - 19, Angela cap - 19, Pots - 15, Switch - 12, Knobs - 10. I offered the other stuff to you for 10 to help you get the guitar put together. Sandy- sanman682000 Dear sanman682000,Noted, but I can't use this for what I need. Yes the pick guard fits my body properly but it won't sound the way I want it to or preserve the value of my other components. I'm sorry but this all has to go back. The address I have listed for you is:----------There will be no need for me to file a claim if we split the shipping, agreed? This way you will have a chance to inspect what I am returning and keep your option open to cancel the transaction if you wish. Dear findsmoney,I'll take the return but the shippings on you. You recieved exactly what I listed and clearly pictured. You should have asked any questions you had before bidding. I don't understand what the problem is to be honest you, If you install it I think you'll be happy with the tone. I don't mean to sound like an ass but that pg was put together with the best stuff going other than the pups, and they aren't bad, as good as or better sounding than anything at twice what you paid(and those guards wouldn't have the same quality in the other components or shielding). You'd still be ahead of the game if you're that worried about the pups getting as set of Fenders 57/62's and putting them in, here's a set for $100http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Original-57-62-Stratocaster-Pickups-Set-of-3-White-/320908962969?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4ab7aa2c99Again I'm not trying to be an ass it's just you got a great deal and even if you spend 100 bucks on a new set of 57/62 pups you'll be at $176 and have a loaded guard the equal of any American reissue. The only way imo to get better from there is to go with hand wound pups but you're getting into big dollars there.- sanman682000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NOS68 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dear sanman682000,You're right in that I never tested the sound but it's not just the pickguard, it's also the additional $10 I spent on your chinese schlock and mismatched back plate and for the record, the total was not $76 but closer to $94. The back plate unlike the pickguard, WAS mounted and is even a little abraded. This wouldn't be completely offensive in itself if it were legit '62 reissue but it isn't. I spent too much on the neck and body to dilute it with substandard stuff. Describing the pickups as custom wound could lead a buyer into believing they were Fender Custom and that is a bit disingenuous. I'm not saying that you deliberately did this to dupe a bidder but I think you could see how it might invite some careless bids. You are encouraging me to connect it up and play it but what happens if you made a mistake in the wiring and my amp blows or something else stupid happens, who is responsible for damages then? If you ask 100 people what they expect to receive when purchasing a 'Fender 62 Stratocaster Loaded Pickguard', how many would say what you sent is legit or that it was exactly what they expected? If I got the items as cheap as you say, you will have no problem exceeding my winning bid the next go round so why guff at splitting the shipping (about $4)? - findsmoney Dear findsmoney,Again the pickguard is not substandard and was never listed as a 62 reissue. I listed it as a 62 because it is a Fender 62 Pick Guard I didn't name them Fender did, see for your self,http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Fender-62-Stratocaster-Strat-White-3-Ply-Pickguard-0992018000-/330712549690?_trksid=p1984.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222001&algo=SIC.FIT&ao=1&asc=42&meid=9144447033851616843&pid=100011&prg=1006&rk=4&, I have to list it as a 62 so you know you are getting the pg with the cutout for truss rod adjustment. I would have listed what model reissue I took it off of if I was trying to be deceptive for the simple fact if it was a pulloff from a US made 60's reissue it would havce solf for $200 or more. I used custom wound in the description because that is how the maker advertises them, if anybody else thought they where Custom Shop pups do you really think it would have sold so low. and yes I would have expected the buyer to know what he was getting, I had it clear pictures showing you exactly what you where getting. Again hook it up and try it out it is wired correctly I build my own line of effects pedals so I think I may know what I'm doing. And the other "chinese schlock" as you put it In threw together to help you out I'm sorry I didn't realize you where working with such rare and superb body and neck as to sully it with such schlock and the audacity I had a charging the kingly sum of $10. Again feel free to send it back but shipping is on you as I state that in the listing, I can't help you didn't ask any questions before bidding. It's not just $4 I have relisting fee's too.Sandy- sanman682000 Dear sanman682000,Sandor, there is no way for you to know this but I believe Ebay knows I ask many more questions than most. The listing description of the pickups was ambiguous. You knew the name of the pickups manufacturer but chose to withhold this information placing the burden of discovery on the buyer. What will Ebay think of this practice? You might say that I am responsible for clearing up any ambiguities in the listing but when a seller artfully cloaks the defects in the listing, it is like asking all Ebay buyers to be sleuths. What would happen to auction prices and the Ebay mail system if buyers lost confidence in the listing descriptions and in their ability to resolve these kind of things? I bought on the description and your word on the accompanying items only to be disappointed with what I got. I am sympathetic to your position but this doesn't appear to be reciprocated. If you really believed I got a great deal you would not hesitate to have the lot returned to you to resell at a higher price that would absorb the difference. I am not asking for the full shipping amount, only half. As I understand it, I may open a request to cancel this transaction. In this way, your paid fees are returned. This would not be the csse if I open a claim for "item received not as described" and prevail.Dude, you don't seem like a dishonest guy and I'm trying to work this out because I think you're sensible. Let's look at your advice about replacing the pickups to the correct ones: I cannot perform this function without paying someone to do it and how much will that cost me?What about the substandard stuff you sent with the incorrectly loaded pickguard, should I just eat that loss?Do you see my position more clearly now?- findsmoney Dear findsmoney,I chose not to put the name of the manufacture in as I didn't want anyone to think they where something special like a Lindy Fralin, Jason Lollar, etc. I just don't understand why you didn't ask. I don't think your dishonest either just someone who read the listing and saw something that wasn't there, you have already stated you thought this was a pull off from a reissue, though what reissue I have no idea. Then that I somehow lead buyers to believe the pups are Custom Shop. But I'm not arguing anymore send it all back and I'll refund you $86 or file with ebay. You screwed up and did not ask questions on stuff that was clearly important to you. And if you can't swap pups out how do you plan on installing the guard, you have to solder to do that to. I will say you did change one thing on how I will proceed in the future, I will no longer leave feedback for a buyer until I recieve it.- sanman682000 Dear sanman682000,I was planning to use spade terminals and crimp the ends so no soldering was required. The reason I thought it was a pull was because it looked modded and otherwise not legit. Had you not confessed to doing the mods yourself, I would have concluded that you parted out a guitar that you believed to be a legit '62 reissue Stratocaster that had its original pickups swapped out. It sounds like you're trying to spin my words to your advantage. Please don't do this, all the while I have been trying to do nothing more that reverse this transaction and make it fair for both of us. My cost to receive these items was $94. I will need to pay additional money to return them to you. My loss is real where you will likely resell those items for a greater value and gain. Your claim is that I got a great deal and this implies that you believe the auction result was weak and this implies it will resell higher. That is the logic I used to make this equitable for us both, why is it faulty to ask you to burden some of the shipping cost? I am asking Ebay to cancel this transaction to ave you some fees. This is much softer than opening a claim for a misrepresented item and if I did so, I would probably prevail. I'm hoping that you see my point of view now and respect my wishes.- findsmoney Dear findsmoney,Fine I'lll refund you $90, that'll be half the shipping just to end this. Why if it "looked modded and otherwise not legit" you didn't ask any questions is beyond me. I think you know I'm right here and you're wrong but I'm sick of this back and forth. - sanman682000 Dear sanman682000,Sandor, you probably didn't do well in math if that is how you calculate half the return shipping. My sunk cost is $94 and shipping it back is an additional $8 so my loss would be $12 if I accept $90, what would be your loss in comparison? When I say equitable I mean fair for both, not fair for you only. For the record, I think you are handling this pretty obnoxiously and I don't think you're in the right even though you have convinced yourself you are. In the future, please don't mistake my patience and consideration as weakness. I tried to cancel this transaction for you but only the seller can do this. Go here: http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/ and select the "I want to cancel a transaction" button. This will save your listing fees. I have prepared a shipping label and plan to get it out to you this weekend. I expect to be refunded $98, you should consider if $4 is worth making me unhappy.- findsmoney Dear findsmoney,OK you're back to $86 feel free to file with ebay- sanman682000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 Ok, I didn't read everything here, but I looked at the listing. The listing clearly states the return terms, and it's clearly not a reissue Fender anything. He should have emailed before bidding, and now that he's unhappy with his purchase, he should pay the shipping to get (most of) his money back. You should have been more descriptive (dare I say honest?) in the listing. "Custom wound pickups" wouldn't have fooled a savvy shopper, but it may some other people. In general, your emails could have been nicer. If he doesn't want it, you shouldn't argue with him about it. The only response should have been something along the lines of, "I'm sorry you were displeased with your purchase, and I will gladly accept a return. As stated in the listing, shipping charges are not refunded in the event of a return. Thank you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arr0wHead Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 You're right, but you could handle yourself better. The arguing back and forth is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashtray Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I think you're in the wrong here. The value in a loaded pickguard is mostly the pickups (usually). In this case the guy is building a "nice" guitar and wasn't expecting to receive cheap pickups in which he'd have to dump another $100 in to and wire them up himself. Your ad was misleading. You knew they weren't Fender pickups. If I bought a loaded Fender 62 pickguard, I'd expect it to be all Fender components off a Fender 62 (reissue) Strat. If you bought a loaded Orange 4x12 cab, you'd assume the speakers were original as well as wiring unless noted otherwise. If it showed up with cheap $10 speakers, you'd be pretty upset. It shouldn't be up to the buyer to ask 100 questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa/Kramer Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 Your wrong. You falsley misrepresented the loaded Pickgaurd as a "62' (implied reissue pickguard with 62' reissue parts) Cough up the $4 and be done with it. Fender 62 Stratocaster Loaded Pickguard (You should have stated that the Guard is 62' but the pickups etc. are not) Fender 62 Strat Pick Guard w/ Fender Aluminum Shield Custom Wound Single Coil Alnico Pickups Neck pickup 7.2K Middle pickup 7.2K Bridge pickup 8K CTS Pots 250K Fender 5 Way Switch Angela/Jensen Aluminum Foil Paper In Oil Signal Capacitor .047uf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AxAxSxS Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 This is why you need to go out of your way to exactly represent what you are selling. Your listing is very misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I think the ad was misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted June 20, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2012 To be fair to the OP, if I was buying this, I would mail the seller and ask quite a few key questions and not assume what others above seem to think the listing should be more specific about. For me the listing is for a Fender pickguard in the first instance, and as soon as I'd clocked "custom wound pickups" I'd ask "by who?", and his whinging about the extra unlisted bits is very very picky. I think there is a lesson in there for both buyer and seller, however I don't think the OP was really misleading at all, ambiguous maybe, but the ambiguity should have been picked up before the sale Comme ci comme ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I would not put that much time and effort into anything for four dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RunJonnyRun Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 From the title, all I could think of: Am I Wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billythegoat Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 Seems like the buyer made a bunch of assumptions and was wrong. I don't see any trickery or confusion with your listing. There is a clear distinction between all of the different parts. He got all horny over the price and jumped on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poolshark Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 A little vague in the title, maybe, but the description seems pretty clear to me. I call buyer's remorse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 You're both at fault. But the buyer is only at fault for being lazy. Yes he should have asked more questions, and yes he's an idiot for not doing his own homework. You were totally misleading and I think you know it. I mean come on....look at this line you wrote... "I chose not to put the name of the manufacture in as I didn't want anyone to think they where something special like a Lindy Fralin, Jason Lollar, etc." that's gotta be one of the worst lines of logic I have ever seen. How would anyone anywhere ever think to confuse a brand you named as another brand all together? Basically you're saying "I didn't say they were Seymour Duncans cause I didn't want people to think they were Fralins".....huh? That makes NO sense what so ever. And is simply ridiculous. You could have been so much more clear in your add by stating ALL the facts. Lies of omissions are still lies. Do yourself a favor next time and list ever single detail about what you are selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'd say you both share the blame. You could have been a little more honest but in my opinion, the buyer should ALWAYS beware. I'd give him all the shipping money back and would relist the item with a description with about 200 more words and move a little closer to full disclosure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 I think you're wrong too, and honestly I think the buyer is being very reasonable and you're being a total jerk. Your ad was vague, and deliberately so I would assume. The only brand you mentioned was Fender, so the buyer had no reason to think he was getting anything other than Fender, or that the guard and pickups were pulled from a Fender guitar. Give him his money back, including shipping, and when you relist, be open and honest about what you're selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackface Posted June 20, 2012 Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 It does look like you lied in the ad, but it seems misleading. If I was the buyer, I probably would have asked a bunch of questions first like what exactly the "custom wound" pickups were. I voted both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NOS68 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thanks all for the responses. I would not put that much time and effort into anything for four dollars. You are right but when he called the extras I put together for him "Chinese schlock" it pissed me off and I've been known to cut my nose off just to spite my face so to say. When I get it back I'll either pull the pups and sell it that way or put a set of Fender 57/62's in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashtray Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 So wait, it's NOT a reissue pickguard? It's a real 1962 one? Or a Fender "Model 62" pickguard? Btw, I'm selling my Chevy Corvette with a custom tuned engine. Has Chevy sport suspension, and a new Chevy gas tank. (what I'm not telling you is the engine is a 4cyl block out of a 70s Pinto. If the buyer doesn't ask, it's his fault!) When you say you have a loaded 62 Fender pickguard, the buyer assumes the pickups are also Fender unless otherwise stated. Saying they are custom wound could also be the description from Fender - which I believe some of their '62 Custom shop pickups were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think you're both wrong here. Your listing was rather vague on details, and with it listed as a "FENDER '62 Strat Loaded pickguard," I can see the problem there. Plus, the whole "custom wound" pickup things might lead someone to believe that they were more expensive pickups, even custom shop. I can tell that it's not stock Fender...but this guy seems to be a novice when it comes to guitar parts, so I can see how he missed that in the listing. However, he should have asked more questions to begin with. He should not be asking for his money back. However...if one chooses to use evilbay these days, you have to be prepared to deal with this kind of garbage. No seller protection anymore. Why didn't you just split the return shipping with him like he asked in the first place? $4 isn't worth the time or the hassle, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I would not put that much time and effort into anything for four dollars. This is your answer. You need to be more specific in your ad too. Like others have mentioned, it appears like the pickups are 62's. Oh well, life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 he was quite reasonable in his second email to you... you wanted to take it further for a few bucks?.... ridiculous imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notjonahbutnoah Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 Buyer beware, but that ad is misleading as {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveGrima Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think youre right. I think you could have provided a better description tho considering how many stupid people there are out there. Like type out in big letters, "THESE ARE NOT FENDER PICKUPS" However, I think if a buyer has uncertanties about an item the burden is on them to ask questions. The seller cant be held responsible for every buyer who misread/misunderstands a listing. I think this guy thought he was getting a sweet deal on a set of Fender USA pickups and was butthurt when he found out he read the listing wrong. {censored} him for compulsively bidding. EDIT: Actually you're both wrong. After re-reading it, the listing is very vague and ambiguous, but if I saw an ad that looks confusing Id ask a million questions before bidding. I dont know why he didnt. So thats his fault. I dont think he really has a case, but Id give him the $4 just to avoid trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canadian Jeff Posted June 21, 2012 Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 You're both at fault. But the buyer is only at fault for being lazy. Yes he should have asked more questions, and yes he's an idiot for not doing his own homework. You were totally misleading and I think you know it. I mean come on....look at this line you wrote..."I chose not to put the name of the manufacture in as I didn't want anyone to think they where something special like a Lindy Fralin, Jason Lollar, etc."that's gotta be one of the worst lines of logic I have ever seen. How would anyone anywhere ever think to confuse a brand you named as another brand all together? Basically you're saying "I didn't say they were Seymour Duncans cause I didn't want people to think they were Fralins".....huh? That makes NO sense what so ever. And is simply ridiculous. You could have been so much more clear in your add by stating ALL the facts. Lies of omissions are still lies. Do yourself a favor next time and list ever single detail about what you are selling. This =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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