Members New Trail Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by tim_7string He said in the first post that there were four of them. And I think $2405 is WAY too high for a one nighter at a private party. Unless the people running it are all highly-paid professionals, I think they are going to balk at that price.$1200 seems more reasonable to me. I also like Blackbird 13's advice. Make sure they realize that it will cost a lot for accomodations and that you will need to have those in order to make the gig, where driving back right after the gig for three hours is not an option. Trust me, I've done that before and it really sucks. Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth? Originally Posted by MartinC 4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay. I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by New Trail Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth? I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO. It really depends on the band. A 300 dollar band is still a three hundred dollar band even though they are 150 miles away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members race81 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 We are not a very old group. We started gigging out in feb, of 2012, after 4 months of rehearsals. But it seems we have pleased a few people and are getting word spread through different folks and recommendations. Normal gigs we charge $500 for clubs and bar gigs. Im not gonna price myself out of a gig. If these gigs were a couple a month deal, I could see a higher price, but we are not there yet............yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by MartinC 4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay. Originally Posted by New Trail Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth?...I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO. I would love to charge $2000-2500/night for a private engagement. But more likely than not, if I were to quote that for my band, they would hear that price and move on. Even though we are pretty good, we are still asked if we can give people a discount. With the current public attitude that music has little to no value, we could probably quote $100/night and people would ask if we would take $80 instead. Originally Posted by TIMKEYS It really depends on the band. A 300 dollar band is still a three hundred dollar band even though they are 150 miles away from home. Yep, very true. Originally Posted by race81 We are not a very old group. We started gigging out in feb, of 2012, after 4 months of rehearsals. But it seems we have pleased a few people and are getting word spread through different folks and recommendations. Normal gigs we charge $500 for clubs and bar gigs. Im not gonna price myself out of a gig. If these gigs were a couple a month deal, I could see a higher price, but we are not there yet............yet! There you go. We charge $500-600 for out-of-town gigs ourselves for bars and clubs, higher for private parties and weddings. We are still seen as a fairly new band ourselves (not even two years old). Even if I added a fourth member, I seriously doubt we would be able to get $2500 for one night somewhere, anywhere, for anybody. You have to know your market and your place in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by tim_7string ...... With the current public attitude that music has little to no value, we could probably quote $100/night and people would ask if we would take $80 instead. ..... Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by New Trail Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount? LOL I do ,, i negotiated a 10 percent discount for cash at the dentist just yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by sventvkg gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me. We have been doing a few fly and play shows a year. they are always a trade off between adventure and money. the last one paid great. the one before that was more of an adventure for bar wages with all the expenses paid. When you play the same venue all the time on the same little hunk of sand, its fun to just go do somthing different. You just have to take em one at a time and decide as a band if you want to go do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by sventvkg gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me. around here, you wouldn't have many gigs if you set your max radius at 60 miles. Many time band members are that far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratotastic Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by New Trail Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount? You bet your ass they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by sventvkg gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me. That all depends. For me.. an overnight trip that will net me $300 or better after expenses.. well, that's worth it for a day's work/drive/sleep. Others might have a different perspective, or have the money enough that they'd rather have the time instead of the cash. TomAto, ToMAto I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Blackbird 13 or have the money enough that they'd rather have the time instead of the cash It's not that "we have enough money"...who the hell can say that? But your absolutely right it IS the fact that we'd rather make a little less money for a show that requires a little less work. Like I said before we've been asked to travel up to 5 hrs one-way for a gig. I quoted "around $2500-$3000" basically knowing full well we'd price ourselves out of it, and sure enough we didn't get the gig. Maybe I could've quoted $1000 and got it...but at that point our TIME is too valuable...it's not worth it. We didn't want the gig that badly. If they really wanted our band enough...they would've paid what we asked. Otherwise...tough {censored}. Our furthest drive is about 1.25 hrs and we don't stay overnight. We make $1200. If we doubled the drive time, thereby we'd need to stay overnight, I wouldn't do it for much less than $2k....whatever you guys know what I mean...somewhere in that range. Sleeping away from my own house and my own bed and having to drive home in the morning after a {censored}ty night's sleep in a hotel away from my wife and family...no thanks. To me those are all hours on the clock. If I'm doing that I'm BANKING or it just isn't worth the hassle. So to chime in on the 'debate' that's sort of going on...$2500 for a 1-nighter away from home is NOT out of line at all. If it's overpriced for the market like it usually is in our case...that's fine. We just don't do the gig. But it's not out of line. You're putting in a lot of hours. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Our normal rate is $1600. Our 1 hour away out of town rate is $2000 & 3 rooms minimum. The best we've done is $2300 & 5 rooms. We were about an hour away. A 3 hour trip would easily be $2500. Like others have said, any less and it's just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 It's not that "we have enough money"...who the hell can say that? But your absolutely right it IS the fact that we'd rather make a little less money for a show that requires a little less work. Like I said before we've been asked to travel up to 5 hrs one-way for a gig. I quoted "around $2500-$3000" basically knowing full well we'd price ourselves out of it, and sure enough we didn't get the gig. Maybe I could've quoted $1000 and got it...but at that point our TIME is too valuable...it's not worth it. We didn't want the gig that badly. If they really wanted our band enough...they would've paid what we asked. Otherwise...tough {censored}. Our furthest drive is about 1.25 hrs and we don't stay overnight. We make $1200. If we doubled the drive time, thereby we'd need to stay overnight, I wouldn't do it for much less than $2k....whatever you guys know what I mean...somewhere in that range. Sleeping away from my own house and my own bed and having to drive home in the morning after a {censored}ty night's sleep in a hotel away from my wife and family...no thanks. To me those are all hours on the clock. If I'm doing that I'm BANKING or it just isn't worth the hassle. So to chime in on the 'debate' that's sort of going on...$2500 for a 1-nighter away from home is NOT out of line at all. If it's overpriced for the market like it usually is in our case...that's fine. We just don't do the gig. But it's not out of line. You're putting in a lot of hours. Just my thoughts. Ultimately, it all comes down to perception. There is a band around here that charges $1000/night. They play a lot of the same bars the other bands play (the ones that get paid $300-500/night), but they still get paid what they get paid. Why? They have built up the perception that they are 'a cut above' and are worth the money. And they get it. I don't know if they play a lot of private parties, but I'm sure they would charge closer to what you are describing if they did. They have great lighting, a decent website, good logo, fantastic musicians/singers, a more modern setlist and 10+ years with the same name (the lead guitarist/bandleader is the only original member left). All of that contributes to their value as a band. But not all bands can simply say "pay me this" and they will get that, simply by asking. It's how the market (buyer) perceives your group. Because we are a three-piece, there is an instant stigma against us that we are not as good as a four or five-piece band. I've heard some of the four- and five-piece bands around here, and we are actually better than some of them. However, people only realize that AFTER we play. So, due to the availability of one of the members, we take a different approach. We live in the dive bar scene and stretch that money further as a trio rather than play every weekend as a four- or five-piece (with soundman), investing in a huge truck and trailer and $1000s in PA and lighting. If we did all that, sure, we could probably command higher pay but there is a lot more headache involved as well. But anyway, you gotta stack as many cards in your favor as possible. You guys are doing that by adding keys on a few songs, changing your lighting, losing the music stand, dressing nicer, etc. These are all factors that add value to your band. race81's band would have to do the same in order to demand similar fees for his group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimiv Posted December 14, 2012 Members Share Posted December 14, 2012 Originally Posted by race81 All good points......venue is a private birthday party @ a very big lake. There are some very nice clubs in this area, so we were thinking of trying to connect with some of them while down there. There could possibly be more jobs come out of this gig. I know 3 hrs of a drive is not that far for some, but for me the P.A. specialist/roadie/drummer/vocalist...im dead tired after we get done. This would be our first job out of town that required an over night stay IMO. From my figures....and upping the band members pay by a whopping $25 each, it looks to be around $1200.......expenses are making up around half of the total. Heres how I broke it down.... fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200 meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180 motel..........................................$22 5 band...........................................$60 0 _____________________________________ total $1205 You're not too too far off. I would x out meals except one on the way back (day two). Here was our last job and the quote where we played three hours north of here and stayed overnight. Granted, it was a wedding, but I wouldn't discount the price too much just because it is a party. Gig Request Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Most of our gigs involve a good deal of travel and overnight stay for at least some of the band members. (Two of us live 100 miles from the rest.) Whether we charge extra for the travel expenses or include them in the price is more just a matter of negotiating tactic---sometimes it's easier to get XXXX+rooms than it is to get YYYY-with-rooms-included. Kinda just depends on the person you're dealing with and something you just sort of have to learn to "feel out" when talking to people. I can't really explain how best to do that.Since many of our gigs will involve 4 rooms and gas for 3 vehicles, travel expenses usually run several hundred dollars. At the end of the day, you've got to decide for yourselves whether the time spend and the net income is worth the trouble of an overnight gig. If you start trying to figure your "per hour" income on a gig that is going to end up taking 24 hours to complete, obviously you're not going to be making very much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 Our normal rate is $1600. Our 1 hour away out of town rate is $2000 & 3 rooms minimum. The best we've done is $2300 & 5 rooms. We were about an hour away. A 3 hour trip would easily be $2500. Like others have said, any less and it's just not worth it. you stay overnight for a 60 mile gig?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by TIMKEYS It really depends on the band. A 300 dollar band is still a three hundred dollar band even though they are 150 miles away from home. This is nearly quotable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead you stay overnight for a 60 mile gig?? Yeah. The place doesn't want us tearing down all night. We are able to get everything pretty much ready for load out. We do as much as we can, until the staff is ready to leave. Stay the night. Grab breakfast, load up and head home. We don't do a lot of out of town gigs. It's not a bar, so we have to bring out whole setup with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 It's not a bar, so we have to bring out whole setup with us. "It's a bar, so we had to bring our whole setup with us!" is something that I often have to say, and a lot of the people who aren't from around here don't get it. There are probably 60 venues with bands, and another 60 who "dabble" in live music with cheaper bands, acoustic acts, and the like. Of the 120-ish places.. maybe 12 of them have a house PA. Of those 10.. maybe 3 of them have a PA that functions well enough to put on a professional show. Is that just a thing in this area... do the bars and clubs in most places have PA and lights already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by Blackbird 13 "It's a bar, so we had to bring our whole setup with us!" is something that I often have to say, and a lot of the people who aren't from around here don't get it. There are probably 60 venues with bands, and another 60 who "dabble" in live music with cheaper bands, acoustic acts, and the like. Of the 120-ish places.. maybe 12 of them have a house PA. Of those 10.. maybe 3 of them have a PA that functions well enough to put on a professional show. Is that just a thing in this area... do the bars and clubs in most places have PA and lights already? same here. We always use our own sound/lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 Yeah. The place doesn't want us tearing down all night. We are able to get everything pretty much ready for load out. We do as much as we can, until the staff is ready to leave. Stay the night. Grab breakfast, load up and head home. We don't do a lot of out of town gigs. It's not a bar, so we have to bring out whole setup with us. man, that would suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by Blackbird 13 "It's a bar, so we had to bring our whole setup with us!" is something that I often have to say, and a lot of the people who aren't from around here don't get it. There are probably 60 venues with bands, and another 60 who "dabble" in live music with cheaper bands, acoustic acts, and the like. Of the 120-ish places.. maybe 12 of them have a house PA. Of those 10.. maybe 3 of them have a PA that functions well enough to put on a professional show. Is that just a thing in this area... do the bars and clubs in most places have PA and lights already? Not where I live. I only know of one venue with house sound. I havn't played there in years so i don't know the quality of the PA. Most the bands that gig regularly own fairly nice PAs. Powered JBL,QSC or at least some Mackie 450s over subs. One guy who owns a sound company plays bass in a band and they use some of his Meyer cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Not where I live. I only know of one venue with house sound. I havn't played there in years so i don't know the quality of the PA. Most the bands that gig regularly own fairly nice PAs. Powered JBL,QSC or at least some Mackie 450s over subs. One guy who owns a sound company plays bass in a band and they use some of his Meyer cabs. People talk about areas they live where the venues provide PA and lights... and this just seems like a foreign concept to me. Most places, nationwide, DON'T provide FOH and lighting setups, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by modulusman Not where I live. I only know of one venue with house sound. I havn't played there in years so i don't know the quality of the PA. Most the bands that gig regularly own fairly nice PAs. Powered JBL,QSC or at least some Mackie 450s over subs. One guy who owns a sound company plays bass in a band and they use some of his Meyer cabs. Also.. I know you and I don't see eye to eye on some things when it comes to PA.. but what's the deal with everyone going powered for PA now? It still seems there are less possible gig-critical failures using seperate power amps and passive speakers, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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